Watching a good pyro > Playing against a good pyro.
Pyro
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
kiriobe_OHKs aren't fun (this is also why snipers are pretty annoying)kiricrits are an annoying mechanic
???
Yeah anybody would concede that random crits are dumb but what's wrong with forced crits?
at least spies & kritz medics are possible to counter.
and a fuckin melee weapon isnt?
[quote=kiri][quote=obe_][quote=kiri]crits are an annoying mechanic[/quote]
???
Yeah anybody would concede that random crits are dumb but what's wrong with forced crits?[/quote]
OHKs aren't fun (this is also why snipers are pretty annoying)
at least spies & kritz medics are possible to counter.[/quote]
and a fuckin melee weapon isnt?
???
Yeah anybody would concede that random crits are dumb but what's wrong with forced crits?[/quote]
OHKs aren't fun (this is also why snipers are pretty annoying)
at least spies & kritz medics are possible to counter.[/quote]
and a fuckin melee weapon isnt?
honestly I think the only reason I'm having trouble here is because I don't think "broken" means "unbalanced"
I agree with almost everything you guys are saying
honestly I think the only reason I'm having trouble here is because I don't think "broken" means "unbalanced"
I agree with almost everything you guys are saying
I agree with almost everything you guys are saying
well the only possible synonym your argument can have with "broken" is "annoying"
well the only possible synonym your argument can have with "broken" is "annoying"
if by "annoying" you mean "doesn't fit in with anything else in the game and doesn't seem to belong" instead of "this fucks me over so I'm mad at it" then yes
if by "annoying" you mean "doesn't fit in with anything else in the game and doesn't seem to belong" instead of "this fucks me over so I'm mad at it" then yes
Sometimes I purposely miss a rocket and they can still reflect it and kill me.
Sometimes I purposely miss a rocket and they can still reflect it and kill me.
solution: don't shoot rockets at pyros (range)
all your problems are solved
solution: don't shoot rockets at pyros (range)
all your problems are solved
all your problems are solved
what is fun tho is rocket jumping with a soldiers rocket and doing some neat 360 mctwist no scope or something
what is fun tho is rocket jumping with a soldiers rocket and doing some neat 360 mctwist no scope or something
where the fuck did I say pyro is out of place, tell me
where the fuck did I say pyro is out of place, tell me
i could read my history assignment or i could read this soap opera
i could read my history assignment or i could read this soap opera
the only thing out of place with pyro is the specific pair of combos axtinguisher/flare with degreaser in specific zoning situations; I never said anything about the rift axe or the bubblegun because consistency and art style have absolutely nothing to do with gameplay so even considering that for what I'm saying is fucking retarded.
out of place is in terms of gameplay; debuffs like jarate milk and bleeding make sense because they're similar to afterburn which was an original part of the game; being able to deny and punish any engagment except for super specific ones is completely unique and not considered in tf2's original balance design, so reasonable counters don't exist like they do for other aspects of the game that do that kind of denial. sentries, you have stickies and pipebombs and most classes can spam at them - they're stationary, immobile (originally) and you don't have to worry about them outside of vital chokes; heavies you have spies and snipers, and other classes can spam them down given (I'm going to stop mentioning spy because they're a general special counter that's countered by everything else); sticky traps have a very small area of power and can be knocked around and shot out and ubered through; none of these things are out of place because there's proper compensation for them in other parts of the game. pyro's situational utter denial isn't. it was tacked on and buffed to hell and given toys and not properly tested.
the only thing out of place with pyro is the specific pair of combos axtinguisher/flare with degreaser in specific zoning situations; I never said anything about the rift axe or the bubblegun because consistency and art style have absolutely nothing to do with gameplay so even considering that for what I'm saying is fucking retarded.
out of place is in terms of gameplay; debuffs like jarate milk and bleeding make sense because they're similar to afterburn which was an original part of the game; being able to deny and punish any engagment except for super specific ones is completely unique and not considered in tf2's original balance design, so reasonable counters don't exist like they do for other aspects of the game that do that kind of denial. sentries, you have stickies and pipebombs and most classes can spam at them - they're stationary, immobile (originally) and you don't have to worry about them outside of vital chokes; heavies you have spies and snipers, and other classes can spam them down given (I'm going to stop mentioning spy because they're a general special counter that's countered by everything else); sticky traps have a very small area of power and can be knocked around and shot out and ubered through; none of these things are out of place because there's proper compensation for them in other parts of the game. pyro's situational utter denial isn't. it was tacked on and buffed to hell and given toys and not properly tested.
out of place is in terms of gameplay; debuffs like jarate milk and bleeding make sense because they're similar to afterburn which was an original part of the game; being able to deny and punish any engagment except for super specific ones is completely unique and not considered in tf2's original balance design, so reasonable counters don't exist like they do for other aspects of the game that do that kind of denial. sentries, you have stickies and pipebombs and most classes can spam at them - they're stationary, immobile (originally) and you don't have to worry about them outside of vital chokes; heavies you have spies and snipers, and other classes can spam them down given (I'm going to stop mentioning spy because they're a general special counter that's countered by everything else); sticky traps have a very small area of power and can be knocked around and shot out and ubered through; none of these things are out of place because there's proper compensation for them in other parts of the game. pyro's situational utter denial isn't. it was tacked on and buffed to hell and given toys and not properly tested.
I think it's annoying pyro can punish spam rockets so hard (easy to reflect, no falloff + extra damage). Those "clutch" close range reflects are pretty annoying too.
You can get around it by thinking a bit, but thinking sucks. bleh
I think it's annoying pyro can punish spam rockets so hard (easy to reflect, no falloff + extra damage). Those "clutch" close range reflects are pretty annoying too.
You can get around it by thinking a bit, but thinking sucks. bleh
You can get around it by thinking a bit, but thinking sucks. bleh
wareyaI love it when I say something and people take it a completely different way, and I can't retort because what they respond with is completely irrelevant to what I think. Fuck this shit, I'm out of the thread.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[quote=wareya]I love it when I say something and people take it a completely different way, and I can't retort because what they respond with is completely irrelevant to what I think. Fuck this shit, I'm out of the thread.[/quote]
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't even disagree with most of this shit but you seem to be completely ignoring my real argument and placing something else in my mouth
how many times are we going to do this
I'm talking about guaranteed weapon crit combos, you're bringing up perfect reflection and situations where the pyro is out of position which are completely irrelevant to my argument and no good positioning is NOT that rare
PS:
Just because airblast was added later and doesn't something new doesn't make it out of place. That being said, minicrits were totally out of place when introduced. No falloff damage and damage buff? Nothing was even close to that effect during the time.
GG self conflicting argument
I don't even disagree with most of this shit but you seem to be completely ignoring my real argument and placing something else in my mouth
how many times are we going to do this
I'm talking about guaranteed weapon crit combos, you're bringing up perfect reflection and situations where the pyro is out of position which are completely irrelevant to my argument and no good positioning is NOT that rare
PS:
[quote]Just because airblast was added later and doesn't something new doesn't make it out of place. That being said, minicrits were totally out of place when introduced. No falloff damage and damage buff? Nothing was even close to that effect during the time.[/quote]
GG self conflicting argument
how many times are we going to do this
I'm talking about guaranteed weapon crit combos, you're bringing up perfect reflection and situations where the pyro is out of position which are completely irrelevant to my argument and no good positioning is NOT that rare
PS:
[quote]Just because airblast was added later and doesn't something new doesn't make it out of place. That being said, minicrits were totally out of place when introduced. No falloff damage and damage buff? Nothing was even close to that effect during the time.[/quote]
GG self conflicting argument
I'm not going to stop summarizing things I've already explained with hyperboles, jesus christ
I'm not going to stop summarizing things I've already explained with hyperboles, jesus christ
still haven't answered my point
HOW IS IT AN UTTER DENIAL IF IT ONLY WORKS IN 1V1S
tf2 was never designed around 1v1s
1v1s don't really dictate the balance of anything
still haven't answered my point
HOW IS IT AN UTTER DENIAL IF IT ONLY WORKS IN 1V1S
tf2 was never designed around 1v1s
1v1s don't really dictate the balance of anything
HOW IS IT AN UTTER DENIAL IF IT ONLY WORKS IN 1V1S
tf2 was never designed around 1v1s
1v1s don't really dictate the balance of anything
I gave you a definition of something being out of place, but apparently you didn't pick up on it. I was talking about things not having proper counters in balance, at the same time as it being out of place, you should have been able to draw a fucking connection.
>Why shouldn't pyro have burst damage ability like a sniper rifle except only at close range where it's suppose to excel?
Because nothing else in the game makes up for it with a counter. There's no counter to movement control coupled with guaranteed crits. It's only broken in situations where the pyro's positioning is superior and they're doing a job of denial. Isn't that straightforward enough? I don't get what's hard to fucking understand.
mustard: the pyro's "never alone" either, you know, it's broken in most even encounters; group engagement? you can deal with that. but 1v1s happen. like anything that doesn't involve a demoman and then another powerclass, basically. the only single thing that counters a comfortable pyro is heavy, and they almost never cross paths outside of DM.
I gave you a definition of something being out of place, but apparently you didn't pick up on it. I was talking about things not having proper counters in balance, at the same time as it being out of place, you should have been able to draw a fucking connection.
>Why shouldn't pyro have burst damage ability like a sniper rifle except only at close range where it's suppose to excel?
Because nothing else in the game makes up for it with a counter. There's no counter to movement control coupled with guaranteed crits. It's only broken in situations where the pyro's positioning is superior and they're doing a job of denial. Isn't that straightforward enough? I don't get what's hard to fucking understand.
mustard: the pyro's "never alone" either, you know, it's broken in most even encounters; group engagement? you can deal with that. but 1v1s happen. like anything that doesn't involve a demoman and then another powerclass, basically. the only single thing that counters a comfortable pyro is heavy, and they almost never cross paths outside of DM.
>Why shouldn't pyro have burst damage ability like a sniper rifle except only at close range where it's suppose to excel?
Because nothing else in the game makes up for it with a counter. There's no counter to movement control coupled with guaranteed crits. It's only broken in situations where the pyro's positioning is superior and they're doing a job of denial. Isn't that straightforward enough? I don't get what's hard to fucking understand.
mustard: the pyro's "never alone" either, you know, it's broken in most even encounters; group engagement? you can deal with that. but 1v1s happen. like anything that doesn't involve a demoman and then another powerclass, basically. the only single thing that counters a comfortable pyro is heavy, and they almost never cross paths outside of DM.
>at that range
you can't get to that range without getting shat on by the airblast. you are talking about close range, right? I can't tell. have fun getting to close range against a pyro and not being dead. ranged heckling is better, except with soldier.
demo is like the only 6s class that CAN reliably engage a pyro, I don't know what you're smoking.
>rocket jump out if you're a soldier
oh boy I love being unable to engage
>at that range
you can't get to that range without getting shat on by the airblast. you are talking about close range, right? I can't tell. have fun getting to close range against a pyro and not being dead. ranged heckling is better, except with soldier.
demo is like the only 6s class that CAN reliably engage a pyro, I don't know what you're smoking.
>rocket jump out if you're a soldier
oh boy I love being unable to engage
you can't get to that range without getting shat on by the airblast. you are talking about close range, right? I can't tell. have fun getting to close range against a pyro and not being dead. ranged heckling is better, except with soldier.
demo is like the only 6s class that CAN reliably engage a pyro, I don't know what you're smoking.
>rocket jump out if you're a soldier
oh boy I love being unable to engage
I'm not the person getting shat on, I'm the person doing the shitting. I play pyro. People can't engage me when I hold ground in a good position; it's worse than when I play heavy and engineer, and yes I'm talking about people who are significantly better than me at this game, because frankly I suck.
>they're flanked
by a pyro that's supposed to be holding ground?
wat
not relevant
EDIT: Okay, I'll bite, I'll get my favorite position
I'm not the person getting shat on, I'm the person doing the shitting. I play pyro. People can't engage me when I hold ground in a good position; it's worse than when I play heavy and engineer, and yes I'm talking about people who are significantly better than me at this game, because frankly I suck.
>they're flanked
by a pyro that's supposed to be holding ground?
wat
not relevant
EDIT: Okay, I'll bite, I'll get my favorite position
>they're flanked
by a pyro that's supposed to be holding ground?
wat
not relevant
EDIT: Okay, I'll bite, I'll get my favorite position
I play in pugs. You're taking that the wrong way, it's not that serious.
A demoman has no place in standing here. They have better things to be doing if you're forward holding, like spam. A soldier here won't be able to deny incoming damage if someone comes the upper route; someone coming the lower route will get a face full of flames and either a likely minicrit rocket to the face or a crit flare to the crotch. Soldier's good at dealing with people taking the lower route, too, but with spam engagements pyro is better because he can more easily force people to fall back with reflects or afterburn. This is a better place for other classes with combat rather than holding hard as pyro does. You're vulnerable from people coming through the other side of the battlements, but...
In the safety behind another chokepoint you can reposition yourself if you know they're coming (given forward holds and comms, you should) so that you can keep them from going very far or getting much damage in - unless they're a demoman, in which case they probably have a better job to be doing, like spam. Soldier is really good in this position too, but it's a fallback from the other one, which a soldier can't hold as consistently as a pyro without taking a lot of heals or falling back/down for health, which gives up their position. If, as pyro, you have to chase someone from here, airblasting them into a wall and axtinguishing them is viable if you can pull it off, which shouldn't be so hard.
I play in pugs. You're taking that the wrong way, it's not that serious.
http://i.imgur.com/Lfn2o.jpg
A demoman has no place in standing here. They have better things to be doing if you're forward holding, like spam. A soldier here won't be able to deny incoming damage if someone comes the upper route; someone coming the lower route will get a face full of flames and either a likely minicrit rocket to the face or a crit flare to the crotch. Soldier's good at dealing with people taking the lower route, too, but with spam engagements pyro is better because he can more easily force people to fall back with reflects or afterburn. This is a better place for other classes with combat rather than holding hard as pyro does. You're vulnerable from people coming through the other side of the battlements, but...
http://i.imgur.com/Kc5IT.jpg
In the safety behind another chokepoint you can reposition yourself if you know they're coming (given forward holds and comms, you should) so that you can keep them from going very far or getting much damage in - unless they're a demoman, in which case they probably have a better job to be doing, like spam. Soldier is really good in this position too, but it's a fallback from the other one, which a soldier can't hold as consistently as a pyro without taking a lot of heals or falling back/down for health, which gives up their position. If, as pyro, you have to chase someone from here, airblasting them into a wall and axtinguishing them is viable if you can pull it off, which shouldn't be so hard.
http://i.imgur.com/Lfn2o.jpg
A demoman has no place in standing here. They have better things to be doing if you're forward holding, like spam. A soldier here won't be able to deny incoming damage if someone comes the upper route; someone coming the lower route will get a face full of flames and either a likely minicrit rocket to the face or a crit flare to the crotch. Soldier's good at dealing with people taking the lower route, too, but with spam engagements pyro is better because he can more easily force people to fall back with reflects or afterburn. This is a better place for other classes with combat rather than holding hard as pyro does. You're vulnerable from people coming through the other side of the battlements, but...
http://i.imgur.com/Kc5IT.jpg
In the safety behind another chokepoint you can reposition yourself if you know they're coming (given forward holds and comms, you should) so that you can keep them from going very far or getting much damage in - unless they're a demoman, in which case they probably have a better job to be doing, like spam. Soldier is really good in this position too, but it's a fallback from the other one, which a soldier can't hold as consistently as a pyro without taking a lot of heals or falling back/down for health, which gives up their position. If, as pyro, you have to chase someone from here, airblasting them into a wall and axtinguishing them is viable if you can pull it off, which shouldn't be so hard.
if what you're saying is true then either I have sick luck or something is wrong with pyro's zoning at my skill level
I'm generally completely worse than the people I'm in pugs with and btw it's usually mumble pugs, not irc ones, just for the record in case it matters
idk I'm getting too tired for this
>getting baited as pyro when you're trying to do area denial
oppa 4chan style
if what you're saying is true then either I have sick luck or something is wrong with pyro's zoning at my skill level
I'm generally completely worse than the people I'm in pugs with and btw it's usually mumble pugs, not irc ones, just for the record in case it matters
idk I'm getting too tired for this
>getting baited as pyro when you're trying to do area denial
oppa 4chan style
I'm generally completely worse than the people I'm in pugs with and btw it's usually mumble pugs, not irc ones, just for the record in case it matters
idk I'm getting too tired for this
>getting baited as pyro when you're trying to do area denial
oppa 4chan style
the skill level is usually mid open or higher, I have varying success when I run pyro but if I'm gay enough it works better against better players until they're super duper good (IM+) because I don't play as dumb against them
with my flawed judgment of peoples' skill my pyro probably works best against high open and low IM the best
I only go pyro because I can't get anything done as roaming soldier anyway
the skill level is usually mid open or higher, I have varying success when I run pyro but if I'm gay enough it works better against better players until they're super duper good (IM+) because I don't play as dumb against them
with my flawed judgment of peoples' skill my pyro probably works best against high open and low IM the best
I only go pyro because I can't get anything done as roaming soldier anyway
with my flawed judgment of peoples' skill my pyro probably works best against high open and low IM the best
I only go pyro because I can't get anything done as roaming soldier anyway
I still consider something about pyro broken if I can consistently beat low-IM soldiers and high-open scouts (if they decide to engage me) in situations like the one I gave with it despite me being so bad (subopen)
I still consider something about pyro broken if I can consistently beat low-IM soldiers and high-open scouts (if they decide to engage me) in situations like the one I gave with it despite me being so bad (subopen)
broken skill curve in situational play
huehuehuehuehue
broken skill curve in situational play
huehuehuehuehue
huehuehuehuehue
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