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Weapon Bans
31
#31
11 Frags +

Thank you to tri, obla and the invite players for meeting up on such short notice. And I think thanks are still in order to slin and sideshow for being a catalyst for these meetings to happen in the first place.

I think it's great that people are being vocal about what weapons they don't like on the whitelist and what their issues are. Hopefully everyone appreciates though how great for the scene it is for the leagues to be cooperating directly. I personally hope this won't end on just the whitelist, but that's a discussion for the future.

Thank you to tri, obla and the invite players for meeting up on such short notice. And I think thanks are still in order to slin and sideshow for being a catalyst for these meetings to happen in the first place.

I think it's great that people are being vocal about what weapons they don't like on the whitelist and what their issues are. Hopefully everyone appreciates though how great for the scene it is for the leagues to be cooperating directly. I personally hope this won't end on just the whitelist, but that's a discussion for the future.
32
#32
4 Frags +
CollaideThat's been allowed in etf2l for a long while now"

http://whitelist.tf/etf2l_6v6_s24
???

[quote=Collaide]That's been allowed in etf2l for a long while now"[/quote]
http://whitelist.tf/etf2l_6v6_s24
???
33
#33
6 Frags +

Yeah idk what coillaide is taking about it hasn't been allowed it was allowed somewhere to test it and it was retarded you just can't miss with the weapon, but hey it nerfs scout so I'm okay with it

Edit: rollers don't matter if you can't miss with it, spam is better with this weapon because you can almost one shot a medic from across the map, who even needs stickies just use a shield for resistance this weapon can do both at the same time. Expect traps

Edit: ok didnt know they removed damage buff, ignore the edit above
Might be balanced now then i guess? idk

Yeah idk what coillaide is taking about it hasn't been allowed it was allowed somewhere to test it and it was retarded you just can't miss with the weapon, but hey it nerfs scout so I'm okay with it

[s]Edit: rollers don't matter if you can't miss with it, spam is better with this weapon because you can almost one shot a medic from across the map, who even needs stickies just use a shield for resistance this weapon can do both at the same time. Expect traps[/s]

Edit: ok didnt know they removed damage buff, ignore the edit above
Might be balanced now then i guess? idk
34
#34
Process/Gullywash Refresh
-6 Frags +

My bad, I only remembered playing countless of pickups where demomen baited their entire team by going lochnload

My bad, I only remembered playing countless of pickups where demomen baited their entire team by going lochnload
35
#35
2 Frags +
CollaideMy bad, I only remembered playing countless of pickups where demomen baited their entire team by going lochnload

tbh those demos were pretty bad or playing with it the wrong way/not using stickies for the primary damage output then.

It's better at getting people who are in your face like scouts rushing you and you can also spam from a safer distance and pound people because of the way the projectile speed works.

Because it's faster and they're flying straight it means that you can hit people in a choke from distance where the shot will travel through the entire choke horizontally, as opposed to pipes where you have to aim up and so they'll land in the choke.

[quote=Collaide]My bad, I only remembered playing countless of pickups where demomen baited their entire team by going lochnload[/quote]
tbh those demos were pretty bad or playing with it the wrong way/not using stickies for the primary damage output then.

It's better at getting people who are in your face like scouts rushing you and you can also spam from a safer distance and pound people because of the way the projectile speed works.

Because it's faster and they're flying straight it means that you can hit people in a choke from distance where the shot will travel through the entire choke horizontally, as opposed to pipes where you have to aim up and so they'll land in the choke.
36
#36
-2 Frags +

in case anyone forgot, the lnl lost it's damage boost forever ago and is only damage boosted versus buildings. you'd have to have a total handicap to think dropping stickies is a good idea for a pipe launcher with the only benefit being it goes faster

in case anyone forgot, the lnl lost it's damage boost forever ago and is only damage boosted versus buildings. you'd have to have a total handicap to think dropping stickies is a good idea for a pipe launcher with the only benefit being it goes faster
37
#37
14 Frags +
Nurseyin case anyone forgot, the lnl lost it's damage boost forever ago and is only damage boosted versus buildings. you'd have to have a total handicap to think dropping stickies is a good idea for a pipe launcher with the only benefit being it goes faster

but you don't drop stickies? you get stickies and faster pipes. No downside.

[quote=Nursey]in case anyone forgot, the lnl lost it's damage boost forever ago and is only damage boosted versus buildings. you'd have to have a total handicap to think dropping stickies is a good idea for a pipe launcher with the only benefit being it goes faster[/quote]
but you don't drop stickies? you get stickies and faster pipes. No downside.
38
#38
Process/Gullywash Refresh
-8 Frags +
Zesty tbh those demos were pretty bad

did u just call out setlet

Nurseyin case anyone forgot, the lnl lost it's damage boost forever ago and is only damage boosted versus buildings. you'd have to have a total handicap to think dropping stickies is a good idea for a pipe launcher with the only benefit being it goes faster

It's not like I said this already but since you're an invite player ppl will listen to you more, so thx I guess!!!!!

[quote=Zesty] tbh those demos were pretty bad[/quote]
did u just call out setlet

[quote=Nursey]in case anyone forgot, the lnl lost it's damage boost forever ago and is only damage boosted versus buildings. you'd have to have a total handicap to think dropping stickies is a good idea for a pipe launcher with the only benefit being it goes faster[/quote]
It's not like I said this already but since you're an invite player ppl will listen to you more, so thx I guess!!!!!
39
#39
Process/Gullywash Refresh
-2 Frags +
nopebut you don't drop stickies? you get stickies and faster pipes. No downside.DamnEasyrollers don't matter if you can't miss with it, spam is better with this weapon because you can almost one shot a medic from across the map, who even needs stickies just use a shield for resistance this weapon can do both at the same time. Expect traps
[quote=nope]but you don't drop stickies? you get stickies and faster pipes. No downside.[/quote]
[quote=DamnEasy]rollers don't matter if you can't miss with it, spam is better with this weapon because you can almost one shot a medic from across the map, who even needs stickies just use a shield for resistance this weapon can do both at the same time. Expect traps[/quote]
40
#40
1 Frags +
Collaidenopebut you don't drop stickies? you get stickies and faster pipes. No downside.DamnEasyrollers don't matter if you can't miss with it, spam is better with this weapon because you can almost one shot a medic from across the map, who even needs stickies just use a shield for resistance this weapon can do both at the same time. Expect traps

Hello, i edited that??? smh

[quote=Collaide][quote=nope]but you don't drop stickies? you get stickies and faster pipes. No downside.[/quote]
[quote=DamnEasy]rollers don't matter if you can't miss with it, spam is better with this weapon because you can almost one shot a medic from across the map, who even needs stickies just use a shield for resistance this weapon can do both at the same time. Expect traps[/quote][/quote]

Hello, i edited that??? smh
41
#41
11 Frags +
Collaidedid u just call out setlet

No but if it was setlet the loch and load probably wasn't the reason he was baiting his entire team.
That's me calling out setlet

[quote=Collaide]
did u just call out setlet[/quote]
No but if it was setlet the loch and load probably wasn't the reason he was baiting his entire team.
That's me calling out setlet
42
#42
10 Frags +

Also how retarded will vaccinator natascha heavy be on last...

Also how retarded will vaccinator natascha heavy be on last...
43
#43
Process/Gullywash Refresh
-9 Frags +
ZestyCollaidedid u just call out setletNo but if it was setlet the loch and load probably wasn't the reason he was baiting his entire team.
That's me calling out setlet

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define+joke

DamnEasyHello, i edited that??? smh

Yes but this guy didn't know what nursey was takling about

[quote=Zesty][quote=Collaide]
did u just call out setlet[/quote]
No but if it was setlet the loch and load probably wasn't the reason he was baiting his entire team.
That's me calling out setlet[/quote]
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define+joke

[quote=DamnEasy]Hello, i edited that??? smh[/quote]
Yes but this guy didn't know what nursey was takling about
44
#44
10 Frags +

For the love of God please ban Natascha.

For the love of God please ban Natascha.
45
#45
2 Frags +

jarate is such fun in maps like process, throw it when they push and switch

jarate is such fun in maps like process, throw it when they push and switch
46
#46
-1 Frags +

Fuck yea I get to keep my retard laser gun let's go

someone better post a nosmoke script for this shit soon

Fuck yea I get to keep my retard laser gun let's go

someone better post a nosmoke script for this shit soon
47
#47
1 Frags +

Loch and load to do massive damage, stickies to trap everything.

FeelsGoodMan

Loch and load to do massive damage, stickies to trap everything.

FeelsGoodMan
48
#48
5 Frags +

As much as I don't like most of these unbanned weapons, like the Beggars and the Loch n Load, at least they actively contribute to killing people dead. Easy way to solve stalemates: make it easier for people to die. You know, until people wise up and make stalemates even worse just holding further back, but whatever I guess.

But the Natasha? The Rescue Ranger??? I kinda figured with the sandman banned it was pretty clear that allowing weapons that hinder movement is a poor decision. And the Ranger is just... what? It's okay that an engi can repair his gun from spawn? It's okay that he can just teleport it across the point and replace it as soon as he runs out of bolts?? What???

As much as I don't like most of these unbanned weapons, like the Beggars and the Loch n Load, at least they actively contribute to killing people dead. Easy way to solve stalemates: make it easier for people to die. You know, until people wise up and make stalemates even worse just holding further back, but whatever I guess.

But the Natasha? The [i]Rescue Ranger[/i]??? I kinda figured with the sandman banned it was pretty clear that allowing weapons that hinder movement is a poor decision. And the Ranger is just... what? It's okay that an engi can repair his gun from spawn? It's okay that he can just teleport it across the point and replace it as soon as he runs out of bolts?? What???
49
#49
3 Frags +

disabled sentries can't be picked up or healed by the rescue ranger

disabled sentries can't be picked up or healed by the rescue ranger
50
#50
6 Frags +
Rikachudisabled sentries can't be picked up or healed by the rescue ranger

NEW META BOYS

[quote=Rikachu]disabled sentries can't be picked up or healed by the rescue ranger[/quote]

NEW META BOYS
51
#51
ETF2L
3 Frags +

I mean Valve did nerf the Rescue rangers repair ability, especially because in HL you switched between the wrangler and the ranger, which meant it had an absolutely insane health pool. Could also shoot stickies off with the wrangler.

Thank god Wrangler isn't allowed in 6s. Honestly still predict most engies at last will use the ranger, why would you not? Just stand on the spawn gate like before and spam bolts, switch to your main class when it's gonna die. This is a difficult thing because I'm all for giving engies tools to make them more viable outside last holds, but the rescue ranger makes him significantly better for these holds.

But I've been wrong before, will be interesting to see how the top teams will utilize it.

I mean Valve did nerf the Rescue rangers repair ability, especially because in HL you switched between the wrangler and the ranger, which meant it had an absolutely insane health pool. Could also shoot stickies off with the wrangler.

Thank god Wrangler isn't allowed in 6s. Honestly still predict most engies at last will use the ranger, why would you not? Just stand on the spawn gate like before and spam bolts, switch to your main class when it's gonna die. This is a difficult thing because I'm all for giving engies tools to make them more viable outside last holds, but the rescue ranger makes him significantly better for these holds.

But I've been wrong before, will be interesting to see how the top teams will utilize it.
52
#52
-18 Frags +
randoAtomizer is banned

FeelsBadMan, damn for a second there i almost wanted to play 6s rip

[quote=rando]
Atomizer is banned
[/quote]
FeelsBadMan, damn for a second there i almost wanted to play 6s rip
53
#53
4 Frags +

I agree with this decision. In my opinion, I think they should also reban the Quickie, the Loch n' Load (yeah I get it, Demos need more variety but I don't think these weapons are balanced), the Cow Mangler, and Jarate.

Quickiebomb Launcher has got a lot less clip size than stock but the increased sticky damage and extra range you gain from it is huge, not to mention the shorter fuse. It's basically good for most situations now, and while it only has 4 stickies before needing to reload, it gives Demoman immediate extra effectiveness in both closer ranges and longer ranges, being able to defend himself easier and faster on close range despite the damage nerf, which is a questionable tradeoff from a balancing point of view, to being able to sticky snipe faster, further, and with much greater damage and speed. When a weapon needs to cut back half of its stock counterpart's clipsize at an attempt to "balance" it (pre-nerf Loch) you need to start questioning if there's something wrong.

The Loch n' Load. It makes pills way easier to hit, which is huge. The fact that its projectile travels straight without spinning also makes the effective projectile speed gain from the weapon greater than 20%, while also negating most of the slight random deviations in range/accuracy due to the spinning projectile of stock. Losing one shot and rollers for this much extra accuracy is not enough of a penalty.

The Cow Mangler is now pretty much a straight upgrade from stock for roamers. This weapon is really hanging on a balancing edge. Infinite ammo with negligible downsides for 6v6 play, and I know it sounds stupid but the charge shot will actually see some use now, especially in lower divs to make some absolutely bullshitty out of nowhere shots which deal way waaaay too much damage. Think about every choke situation where you'd be eating a few, normal rocket spam shots and replace it with a Cow Mangler charged shot. Yeah, no. This one is hard to balance because the former hidden reload speed penalty made it worse than stock in almost every situation, but now it's kind of the other way around.

Jarate. It might be tough to get into a position for a good piss soaking going against coordinated team play in most situations, but if/when it hits for whatever reason it is a massive advantage. It is also not hard to use either. And the drawback? There isn't one, in essence. So it should be banned, instead of increasing Sniper's viability/power even further.

I agree with this decision. In my opinion, I think they should also reban the Quickie, the Loch n' Load (yeah I get it, Demos need more variety but I don't think these weapons are balanced), the Cow Mangler, and Jarate.

Quickiebomb Launcher has got a lot less clip size than stock but the increased sticky damage and extra range you gain from it is huge, not to mention the shorter fuse. It's basically good for most situations now, and while it only has 4 stickies before needing to reload, it gives Demoman immediate extra effectiveness in both closer ranges and longer ranges, being able to defend himself easier and faster on close range despite the damage nerf, which is a questionable tradeoff from a balancing point of view, to being able to sticky snipe faster, further, and with much greater damage and speed. When a weapon needs to cut back half of its stock counterpart's clipsize at an attempt to "balance" it (pre-nerf Loch) you need to start questioning if there's something wrong.

The Loch n' Load. It makes pills way easier to hit, which is huge. The fact that its projectile travels straight without spinning also makes the effective projectile speed gain from the weapon greater than 20%, while also negating most of the slight random deviations in range/accuracy due to the spinning projectile of stock. Losing one shot and rollers for this much extra accuracy is not enough of a penalty.

The Cow Mangler is now pretty much a straight upgrade from stock for roamers. This weapon is really hanging on a balancing edge. Infinite ammo with negligible downsides for 6v6 play, and I know it sounds stupid but the charge shot will actually see some use now, especially in lower divs to make some absolutely bullshitty out of nowhere shots which deal way waaaay too much damage. Think about every choke situation where you'd be eating a few, normal rocket spam shots and replace it with a Cow Mangler charged shot. Yeah, no. This one is hard to balance because the former hidden reload speed penalty made it worse than stock in almost every situation, but now it's kind of the other way around.

Jarate. It might be tough to get into a position for a good piss soaking going against coordinated team play in most situations, but if/when it hits for whatever reason it is a massive advantage. It is also not hard to use either. And the drawback? There isn't one, in essence. So it should be banned, instead of increasing Sniper's viability/power even further.
54
#54
1 Frags +
AdramelekJarate. It might be tough to get into a position for a good piss soaking going against coordinated team play in most situations, but if/when it hits for whatever reason it is a massive advantage. It is also not hard to use either. And the drawback? There isn't one, in essence. So it should be banned, instead of increasing Sniper's viability/power even further.

In a standard Uber V Uber exchange Jarate isn't gonna change anything. In most situations it won't change anything. However, it's pretty much a won hold if they're pushing with kritz, or just going in dry.

[quote=Adramelek]
Jarate. It might be tough to get into a position for a good piss soaking going against coordinated team play in most situations, but if/when it hits for whatever reason it is a massive advantage. It is also not hard to use either. And the drawback? There isn't one, in essence. So it should be banned, instead of increasing Sniper's viability/power even further.[/quote]
In a standard Uber V Uber exchange Jarate isn't gonna change anything. In most situations it won't change anything. However, it's pretty much a won hold if they're pushing with kritz, or just going in dry.
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