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Ultiduo Grove
31
#31
4 Frags +

BETA 1!
Just a few things really.
B1 Download
B1 Changes:
Applied a8v2 changes
Removed Tree from mid
Moved high ground out a little
Rotate spire 45 degrees
Detailed map

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/261595156256439637/AB94D096C1B851308AC5DEAFE6FC9F70DCBBEA6D/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/261595156256440149/F9E0B67CCB8B7C18AE7F9509C114EB78FC47057C/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/261595156256434620/15735CABA46016C4457E97CE7F262209492884F8/

BETA 1!
Just a few things really.
[url=https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12945353/maps/ulti/ultiduo_grove_b1.bsp]B1 Download[/url]
B1 Changes:
Applied a8v2 changes
Removed Tree from mid
Moved high ground out a little
Rotate spire 45 degrees
Detailed map

[img]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/261595156256439637/AB94D096C1B851308AC5DEAFE6FC9F70DCBBEA6D/[/img]
[img]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/261595156256440149/F9E0B67CCB8B7C18AE7F9509C114EB78FC47057C/[/img]
[img]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/261595156256434620/15735CABA46016C4457E97CE7F262209492884F8/[/img]
32
#32
4 Frags +

Played the map tonight a bunch and while the rotation of the point structure was subtle I think it does improve access to the point very slightly. The map looks good and plays distinctly enough (and not terribly) so it seems like it's about done. I'll definitely add this to our rotation of maps when ultiduoing with friends.

Played the map tonight a bunch and while the rotation of the point structure was subtle I think it does improve access to the point very slightly. The map looks good and plays distinctly enough (and not terribly) so it seems like it's about done. I'll definitely add this to our rotation of maps when ultiduoing with friends.
33
#33
2 Frags +

For b1 vs a7

The major change for this one was the rotation of the point (mostly the ramps).This makes your ramp even easier to use, and I think allows med to be a little quicker following their soldier to high ground, which I think is a good change. This meant that the 'boxes' path was even less frequently used, but instead created a little pocket for your soldier to drop down in to get arrowed and the opposing soldier would really have to commit to the edge to finish them off, which as nice. Overall, I like this change. I didn't notice much difference with the stumps being moved out a little. Still able to normal jump to them from point. Only a few fights took place on these, but were interesting..

Pros:
-Improved path for 'rollout' with ramp rotation

-Little empty space to make use of quickly, without having to jump way out behind a stump or tree was nice.

-Pretty textures

Needs work:
-I really think that fighting with a limited ammo set is part of the 'training' aspect to Ultiduo and you should be pressured to end the fight quickly, and need to spend some of your time between 'waves' collecting the ammo from dead players. I would say the ammo pack just to the side of point is a bit *too* convenient and the one on the outer edge if you absolutely need it from the map was plenty. It is, at least, a small pack, though.

-The Red roof of the shack to the far side of the point is unclipped, so you can jump way up there and stand on it. The Blu side roof, however, is not accessible. I would imagine this should be clipped off, but whatever the case, they should match.

For [b]b1[/b] vs [b]a7[/b]

The major change for this one was the rotation of the point (mostly the ramps).This makes your ramp even easier to use, and I think allows med to be a little quicker following their soldier to high ground, which I think is a good change. This meant that the 'boxes' path was even less frequently used, but instead created a little pocket for your soldier to drop down in to get arrowed and the opposing soldier would really have to commit to the edge to finish them off, which as nice. Overall, I like this change. I didn't notice much difference with the stumps being moved out a little. Still able to normal jump to them from point. Only a few fights took place on these, but were interesting..

[b]Pros[/b]:
-Improved path for 'rollout' with ramp rotation

-Little empty space to make use of quickly, without having to jump way out behind a stump or tree was nice.

-Pretty textures

[b]Needs work[/b]:
-I really think that fighting with a limited ammo set is part of the 'training' aspect to Ultiduo and you should be pressured to end the fight quickly, and need to spend some of your time between 'waves' collecting the ammo from dead players. I would say the ammo pack just to the side of point is a bit *too* convenient and the one on the outer edge if you absolutely need it from the map was plenty. It is, at least, a small pack, though.

-The Red roof of the shack to the far side of the point is unclipped, so you can jump way up there and stand on it. The Blu side roof, however, is not accessible. I would imagine this should be clipped off, but whatever the case, they should match.
34
#34
4 Frags +

Due to some random person stealing my map and uploading it to the workshop, I've had to go ahead and upload it to the workshop!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=760582747

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12945353/maps/ulti/logo.JPG

This is also B2
Which fixes the missed clip on the roof
B2 Download

Due to some random person stealing my map and uploading it to the workshop, I've had to go ahead and upload it to the workshop!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=760582747
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12945353/maps/ulti/logo.JPG[/img]

This is also B2
Which fixes the missed clip on the roof
[url=https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12945353/maps/ulti/ultiduo_grove_b2.bsp]B2 Download[/url]
35
#35
2 Frags +

Woah, amazing work

Woah, amazing work
36
#36
refresh.tf
4 Frags +

Some criticism of gameplay:

- The large steps around the trunks are super annoying. You have to jump once every time. Most of the time you can't even jump up on them because solly spams you with 1 or 2 rockets /or even shotgun) and suddenly you are either dead or on the lowground. The stairs are useless and just adds too complex geometry.

- Complex geometry is used excessively on this map. Not only the stairs but the 2 large trees, lots of props and other intricate things that make the gameplay experience compared to other maps incredibly unsmooth.

- Point is too large.
There is no disadvantage at all to standing on the point.
On koth_ultiduo_r_b7 (or whatever it's called) the point is on direct lowground and easily contestable from the top.
On ultiduo_baloo the point is very small and you easily die or get knocked down. And if you hide behind the point you're gonna die to a solly standing on the nipple.

If you stand on the point on grove there is no way you can knocked down or killed easily, or get a large disadvantage. If you stand on the point, but as far away from the enemy as possible, they can't damage you at a rate your medic can't heal up. The only way for the enemy to get to you is to jump you directly.
And due to the point being so large, the rockets are easily dodged or surfed. It is also too hard to jump the enemy when they stand like this because you need to get close to jump, in which case you or yor medic might die. If you try to just walk up the point or do a tiny jump to the point you immediately have the disadvantage, because it's way harder for your own medic to heal you, plus the enemy has both a positional advantage (when it comes to aiming) and a health one. In other words rocket jumps are often bad on this map, because the self-inflicted damage does not give you a favourable enough of a position. I want incentive for hitting airshots and directs, and surfing rockets.

- The gameplay is very linear. On the sides of the point it is very hard to walk around. Due to the trees and shit on the map, it's very crowded. It's easily spammed by the enemy (who is always standing on the high ground). Compare this gameplay to ultiduo_baloo or koth_r_ultiduo_b7 where it's fully possible to play in a different area, approach the point and the enemy from different directions. On grove you always have to do a direct attack on your enemy, due to the claustrophobia-inducing splash-damage-friendly geometry. On other maps it's mostly just ramps and flat ground.

Don't take anything on a personal level this is just my critique of the map.

These are the changes I would make to it:
- Reduce the radius of the point
- Remove all stairs (the steps u need to jump 5 times to get up on) and add some sort of ramp instead.
- Straighten the ramp
- Remove/move/shrink the giant trees
- Clean up props
- Try and make map more friendly to large maneuvers and not only intricate ones. A good map allows and promotes both.

Some criticism of gameplay:

- [b]The large steps around the trunks[/b] are super annoying. You have to jump once every time. Most of the time you can't even jump up on them because solly spams you with 1 or 2 rockets /or even shotgun) and suddenly you are either dead or on the lowground. The stairs are useless and just adds too complex geometry.

- [b]Complex geometry[/b] is used excessively on this map. Not only the stairs but the 2 large trees, lots of props and other intricate things that make the gameplay experience compared to other maps incredibly unsmooth.

- [b]Point is too large.[/b]
There is no disadvantage at all to standing on the point.
On [i]koth_ultiduo_r_b7[/i] (or whatever it's called) the point is on direct lowground and easily contestable from the top.
On [i]ultiduo_baloo[/i] the point is very small and you easily die or get knocked down. And if you hide behind the point you're gonna die to a solly standing on the nipple.

If you stand on the point on grove there is no way you can knocked down or killed easily, or get a large disadvantage. If you stand on the point, but as far away from the enemy as possible, they can't damage you at a rate your medic can't heal up. The only way for the enemy to get to you is to jump you directly.
[i]And due to the point being so large, the rockets are easily dodged or surfed. It is also too hard to jump the enemy[/i] when they stand like this because you need to get close to jump, in which case you or yor medic might die. If you try to just walk up the point or do a tiny jump to the point you immediately have the disadvantage, because it's way harder for your own medic to heal you, plus the enemy has both a positional advantage (when it comes to aiming) and a health one. In other words rocket jumps are often bad on this map, because the self-inflicted damage does not give you a favourable enough of a position. I want incentive for hitting airshots and directs, and surfing rockets.

- [b]The gameplay is very linear.[/b] On the sides of the point it is very hard to walk around. Due to the trees and shit on the map, it's very crowded. It's easily spammed by the enemy (who is always standing on the high ground). Compare this gameplay to [i]ultiduo_baloo or koth_r_ultiduo_b7[/i] where it's fully possible to play in a different area, approach the point and the enemy from different directions. On grove you always have to do a direct attack on your enemy, due to the claustrophobia-inducing splash-damage-friendly geometry. On other maps it's mostly just ramps and flat ground.

Don't take anything on a personal level this is just my critique of the map.

These are the changes I would make to it:
- Reduce the radius of the point
- Remove all stairs (the steps u need to jump 5 times to get up on) and add some sort of ramp instead.
- Straighten the ramp
- Remove/move/shrink the giant trees
- Clean up props
- Try and make map more friendly to large maneuvers and not only intricate ones. A good map allows and promotes both.
37
#37
-1 Frags +

All these changes are going to make it more like baloo though :D

All these changes are going to make it more like baloo though :D
38
#38
refresh.tf
2 Frags +
damneasyAll these changes are going to make it more like baloo though :D

Assuming you agree with my points of criticism, how would you change the map?

[quote=damneasy]All these changes are going to make it more like baloo though :D[/quote]
Assuming you agree with my points of criticism, how would you change the map?
39
#39
-1 Frags +

- The large steps around the trunks

yep, i agree. you HAVE to jump FOUR times to get up, which is far too much and they're basically only there to eat the occasional splash. there should be a ramp or maybe two jumps instead here.

- Complex geometry this isn't as much of an issue but it could be toned down a bit. having a bit more clear space would be nice, and i dont think the two corner stumps add much.

- Point is too large. i disagree. I think the point is a bit too small for two people to comfortably stand on as a medic since you often eat the same splash as the soldier. it's also kinda aids because it's very easy for the medic to be aggressive which isn't very fun imo. it's also still quite easy to knock people off it. one decent strat i found as soldier was to spend one rocket on the med to knock him off. from the ground it's really hard to heal and it can basically win you the round.

i think the point is fine as it is, but could be made slightly lower so it's about head-height from the ground. then the med can semi-comfortably heal from the ground but a low-ground soldier can't splash as much as a high-ground one. you could also widen the ramps by quite a bit so the med can stand on there without being easily splashed

- Due to the trees and shit on the map, it's very crowded.

it's not super crowded, but it's a little more crowded for my liking. removing the corner stumps creates a flat area to work with.

- It's easily spammed by the enemy (who is always standing on the high ground).

this is true on every ulti map, and the cover actually helps this (it isn't so cluttered that you cant move around in the radius of a splash rocket)

- Compare this gameplay to ultiduo_baloo or koth_r_ultiduo_b7 where it's fully possible to play in a different area, approach the point and the enemy from different directions

you could fix this by moving the trees or stumps on the outside slightly further away from the point, or removing the boxes. i think if you did one of those you could comfortably work 360 degrees around the point. i prefer the 2nd

- [b]The large steps around the trunks[/b]

yep, i agree. you HAVE to jump FOUR times to get up, which is far too much and they're basically only there to eat the occasional splash. there should be a ramp or maybe two jumps instead here.

- [b]Complex geometry[/b] this isn't as much of an issue but it could be toned down a bit. having a bit more clear space would be nice, and i dont think the two corner stumps add much.

- [b]Point is too large.[/b] i disagree. I think the point is a bit too small for two people to comfortably stand on as a medic since you often eat the same splash as the soldier. it's also kinda aids because it's very easy for the medic to be aggressive which isn't very fun imo. it's also still quite easy to knock people off it. one decent strat i found as soldier was to spend one rocket on the med to knock him off. from the ground it's really hard to heal and it can basically win you the round.

i think the point is fine as it is, but could be made slightly lower so it's about head-height from the ground. then the med can semi-comfortably heal from the ground but a low-ground soldier can't splash as much as a high-ground one. you could also widen the ramps by quite a bit so the med can stand on there without being easily splashed

- Due to the trees and shit on the map, it's very crowded.

it's not super crowded, but it's a little more crowded for my liking. removing the corner stumps creates a flat area to work with.

- It's easily spammed by the enemy (who is always standing on the high ground).

this is true on every ulti map, and the cover actually helps this (it isn't so cluttered that you cant move around in the radius of a splash rocket)

- Compare this gameplay to [i]ultiduo_baloo or koth_r_ultiduo_b7[/i] where it's fully possible to play in a different area, approach the point and the enemy from different directions

you could fix this by moving the trees or stumps on the outside slightly further away from the point, or removing the boxes. i think if you did one of those you could comfortably work 360 degrees around the point. i prefer the 2nd
40
#40
refresh.tf
0 Frags +
gemmPoint is too large. i disagree. I think the point is a bit too small for two people to comfortably stand on as a medic since you often eat the same splash as the soldier.

Yes! And therefore the medic has to stand on the tiny trunk or on the slope/ramp at the side. The capture zone area is fine but the large trunk certainly needs to be changed. It's also a fair point of view, but making it even larger would just make it a flat piece of ground, lacking any excitement. It also doesn't fix the problem of standing at the back of the trunk and just waiting the attacking soldier to land. If anything it makes it even harder to reach him.

gemmit's also kinda aids because it's very easy for the medic to be aggressive which isn't very fun imo. it's also still quite easy to knock people off it.

It's easy to knock someone off it if you actually manage to get close enough to the enemy. If they know what they are doing they won't allow you to get that close, and you'll be at a disadvantage in a fight reminiscent of Ammomod [MGE] (!add 15) But you're right, being aggressive isn't easy as a medic in general.

gemmone decent strat i found as soldier was to spend one rocket on the med to knock him off. from the ground it's really hard to heal and it can basically win you the round.

I do not think this strategy will work against a good team, since they could have the medic stand on the smaller trunk on their own side.

gemmthis is true on every ulti map, and the cover actually helps this (it isn't so cluttered that you cant move around in the radius of a splash rocket)

I ment that it prevents you from doing manouvers. Not spamming the spawn door or whatever.

[quote=gemm][b]Point is too large.[/b] i disagree. I think the point is a bit too small for two people to comfortably stand on as a medic since you often eat the same splash as the soldier.[/quote]
Yes! And therefore the medic has to stand on the tiny trunk or on the slope/ramp at the side. The capture zone area is fine but the large trunk certainly needs to be changed. It's also a fair point of view, but making it even larger would just make it a flat piece of ground, lacking any excitement. It also doesn't fix the problem of standing at the back of the trunk and just waiting the attacking soldier to land. If anything it makes it even harder to reach him.

[quote=gemm]it's also kinda aids because it's very easy for the medic to be aggressive which isn't very fun imo. it's also still quite easy to knock people off it.[/quote]
It's easy to knock someone off it if you actually manage to get close enough to the enemy. If they know what they are doing they won't allow you to get that close, and you'll be at a disadvantage in a fight reminiscent of Ammomod [MGE] (!add 15) But you're right, being aggressive isn't easy as a medic in general.

[quote=gemm]one decent strat i found as soldier was to spend one rocket on the med to knock him off. from the ground it's really hard to heal and it can basically win you the round.[/quote]
I do not think this strategy will work against a good team, since they could have the medic stand on the smaller trunk on their own side.

[quote=gemm]this is true on every ulti map, and the cover actually helps this (it isn't so cluttered that you cant move around in the radius of a splash rocket)[/quote]
I ment that it prevents you from doing manouvers. Not spamming the spawn door or whatever.
41
#41
1 Frags +

map is much better than baloo, since the upper isnt evil, but along with any ultiduomap, you are gonna get spammed from lower if they have highground and that shutter thing is in spawn.

Honestly, this is one of my favorite ultiduo maps so far and is a go to whenever casually playing w/ ppl. Keep up the great work :D

map is much better than baloo, since the upper isnt evil, but along with any ultiduomap, you are gonna get spammed from lower if they have highground and that shutter thing is in spawn.

Honestly, this is one of my favorite ultiduo maps so far and is a go to whenever casually playing w/ ppl. Keep up the great work :D
42
#42
2 Frags +

http://imgur.com/a/NRkwl

http://imgur.com/a/NRkwl
43
#43
4 Frags +

Map was added to ozfortress servers thanks to obla.

Been having tons of fun playing it :)

Map was added to ozfortress servers thanks to obla.

Been having tons of fun playing it :)
44
#44
TFCL
1 Frags +

Adding this to TFCL Ultiduo S3

Adding this to TFCL Ultiduo S3
45
#45
3 Frags +

You can get caught on this wall if you walk against it.

https://puu.sh/wfRrg/f906d96e8b.png

I also want to echo what some other people have said:
I think change the amount jumps needed on the stairs to point. If you removed 1 stair/made it into a ramp to make it 3 jumps required it'd be a lot more comfy. I also wouldn't mind mind seeing the crate-pallet piles be a little more friendly to be on. Either making them smaller to make the jumps easier or make them a ramp on one side so you can walk up it from spawn idk.

these are honestly small complaints and I'm having a blast on this map.

https://youtu.be/_NV0fujFBBc

You can get caught on this wall if you walk against it.
[img]https://puu.sh/wfRrg/f906d96e8b.png[/img]

I also want to echo what some other people have said:
I think change the amount jumps needed on the stairs to point. If you removed 1 stair/made it into a ramp to make it 3 jumps required it'd be a lot more comfy. I also wouldn't mind mind seeing the crate-pallet piles be a little more friendly to be on. Either making them smaller to make the jumps easier or make them a ramp on one side so you can walk up it from spawn idk.

these are honestly small complaints and I'm having a blast on this map.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/_NV0fujFBBc[/youtube]
46
#46
7 Frags +

Out of no where a small update!

BETA 4.
Fixed Clipping Issues around point.
Made the 2 big trees smaller and away from point a little.
Fixed some cosmetic stuff.

DOWNLOAD B4

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/858351445640523312/89115A5730F6D81875D72E92D35C7219181952EC/

Out of no where a small update!

BETA 4.
Fixed Clipping Issues around point.
Made the 2 big trees smaller and away from point a little.
Fixed some cosmetic stuff.

[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/ultiduo-grove.2593/download?version=9685]DOWNLOAD B4[/url]

[img]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/858351445640523312/89115A5730F6D81875D72E92D35C7219181952EC/[/img]
47
#47
0 Frags +

Trees look ugly now :(

Trees look ugly now :(
48
#48
9 Frags +

https://gfycat.com/AdorableCompetentCopepod

https://gfycat.com/AdorableCompetentCopepod
49
#49
1 Frags +
arnoIdhttps://gfycat.com/AdorableCompetentCopepod

Oh ahahah, My mistake on that.

Do you all like the new trees as model, or the old ones?

[quote=arnoId]https://gfycat.com/AdorableCompetentCopepod[/quote]
Oh ahahah, My mistake on that.

Do you all like the new trees as model, or the old ones?
50
#50
0 Frags +

@bakscratch

The trunks are good just the branches look too small and the foliage is not big enough either

@bakscratch

The trunks are good just the branches look too small and the foliage is not big enough either
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