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On the "correct" value of zoom_sensitivity_ratio
posted in Customization
1
#1
0 Frags +

EDIT: I now believe the exact value to be 0.793471.

Having found a discussion in this thread on what value of zoom_sensitivity_ratio makes your sensitivity feel as close to the same as possible both in and out of scope at fov_desired 90, I tried to find the correct value by using a ruler to measure the distance my mouse needed to be moved to move my crosshair a set number of pixels when in and out of scope.

The correct value is about 0.81.

This doesn't match any of the values suggested in the aforementioned thread, and I can't figure out why it would be the correct value - my attempt at calculating the exact value gave an answer closer to 0.75, which is obviously wrong. If someone who knows how TF2 calculates the scoped sensitivity could explain how to calculate the exact value, that would be very much appreciated.

As a sidenote, I used a similarly crude method to measure the horizontal FOV when scoped in. With the scope overlay removed, this is about 26 degrees at 16:9. Assuming that scoped FOV is affected by aspect ratio in the same way as unscoped FOV, the value at 4:3 is therefore 20 degrees with the scope overlay removed.

EDIT: I now believe the exact value to be 0.793471.

Having found a discussion in [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/31834/want-custom-scripts-im-making-scripts-for-free]this thread[/url] on what value of zoom_sensitivity_ratio makes your sensitivity feel as close to the same as possible both in and out of scope at fov_desired 90, I tried to find the correct value by using a ruler to measure the distance my mouse needed to be moved to move my crosshair a set number of pixels when in and out of scope.

The correct value is about 0.81.

This doesn't match any of the values suggested in the aforementioned thread, and I can't figure out why it would be the correct value - my attempt at calculating the exact value gave an answer closer to 0.75, which is obviously wrong. If someone who knows how TF2 calculates the scoped sensitivity could explain how to calculate the exact value, that would be very much appreciated.

As a sidenote, I used a similarly crude method to measure the horizontal FOV when scoped in. With the scope overlay removed, this is about 26 degrees at 16:9. Assuming that scoped FOV is affected by aspect ratio in the same way as unscoped FOV, the value at 4:3 is therefore 20 degrees with the scope overlay removed.
2
#2
5 Frags +

https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/43urd4/why_0818933027098955175_is_the_best_zoom/

https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/43urd4/why_0818933027098955175_is_the_best_zoom/
3
#3
1 Frags +

The problem with this is that the zoomed horizontal FOV of the TF2 sniper rifle at 4:3 is 20 degrees, whereas the value for the CS:GO AWP is 40 degrees.

This post in the thread I linked initially provided the following equation:

(tan(zoom fov/2)*hip fov)/(tan(hip fov/2)*zoom fov)

Plugging in 90 degrees for hip FOV and 20 degrees for zoom FOV gives a value of 0.793471.

Again, the value I measured was 0.81, not 0.818933 or 0.793471. Admittedly my method was crude, but the difference is large enough that I don't think either 0.818933 or 0.793471 is the correct value.

The problem with this is that the zoomed horizontal FOV of the TF2 sniper rifle at 4:3 is 20 degrees, whereas the value for the CS:GO AWP is 40 degrees.

[url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/31834/want-custom-scripts-im-making-scripts-for-free/?page=2#35]This post[/url] in the thread I linked initially provided the following equation:

(tan(zoom fov/2)*hip fov)/(tan(hip fov/2)*zoom fov)

Plugging in 90 degrees for hip FOV and 20 degrees for zoom FOV gives a value of 0.793471.

Again, the value I measured was 0.81, not 0.818933 or 0.793471. Admittedly my method was crude, but the difference is large enough that I don't think either 0.818933 or 0.793471 is the correct value.
4
#4
2 Frags +

I asked this question on r/tf2scripthelp 2 years ago and I got this answer from genemilder. Not sure if CS:GO and TF2 calculate the sensitivities differently or if the link trippa posted is wrong/right.

I asked this question on r/tf2scripthelp 2 years ago and I got [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2scripthelp/comments/2c1r1j/what_is_the_sensitivity_ratio_of_zoom_sensitivity/cjb3wbm]this[/url] answer from genemilder. Not sure if CS:GO and TF2 calculate the sensitivities differently or if the link trippa posted is wrong/right.
5
#5
2 Frags +

Given that 0.833333 is even further from 0.81 than the other two values suggested, I don't think that that is right either.

The justification given is also pretty weak. As I said, my attempt at doing the maths properly failed, so I can't prove that what genemilder is saying is wrong, but I don't think that trig works like that.

Given that 0.833333 is even further from 0.81 than the other two values suggested, I don't think that that is right either.

The justification given is also pretty weak. As I said, my attempt at doing the maths properly failed, so I can't prove that what genemilder is saying is wrong, but I don't think that trig works like that.
6
#6
1 Frags +

Does aspect ratio affect it in any way? IIRC actual FOV with 16:9 ratio and fov_desired 90 is around 106 or so.

Does aspect ratio affect it in any way? IIRC actual FOV with 16:9 ratio and fov_desired 90 is around 106 or so.
7
#7
11 Frags +
FreudAdmittedly my method was crude, but the difference is large enough that I don't think either 0.818933 or 0.793471 is the correct value.

Probably not, a difference of ~0.009 and ~0.02 (or even 0.0233 with 0.8333) shouldn't be significant, and it's more likely that you ran into some minor problems measuring (slight angle on the ruler/mouse when measuring distance? Slight shuffle of things as you moved? Tiny bit of hardware mouse accel? Sig figs?) than anything. You shouldn't be assuming that 0.81 is the correct value, because really the difference is so tiny that a crude method won't find it.

Assuming my math is correct, the difference between 0.793471 and 0.833333 (on 1920x1080, with sensitivity 1 and a DPI of 1000) is a whopping 4.67 pixels when moving across your entire fov. If you're using something in the ballpark of ~0.79-~0.83, you don't have to worry about making it more accurate because any change is functionally meaningless.

[quote=Freud]Admittedly my method was crude, but the difference is large enough that I don't think either 0.818933 or 0.793471 is the correct value.[/quote]
Probably not, a difference of ~0.009 and ~0.02 (or even 0.0233 with 0.8333) shouldn't be significant, and it's more likely that you ran into some minor problems measuring (slight angle on the ruler/mouse when measuring distance? Slight shuffle of things as you moved? Tiny bit of hardware mouse accel? Sig figs?) than anything. You shouldn't be assuming that 0.81 is the correct value, because really the difference is so tiny that a crude method won't find it.

Assuming my math is correct, the difference between 0.793471 and 0.833333 (on 1920x1080, with sensitivity 1 and a DPI of 1000) is a whopping 4.67 pixels when moving across your entire fov. If you're using something in the ballpark of ~0.79-~0.83, you don't have to worry about making it more accurate because any change is functionally meaningless.
8
#8
2 Frags +

I imagine you are correct that 0.81 is close enough to the correct value that it makes no difference. There is no gameplay benefit to finding a more accurate value, I'm just curious as to what the exact value is, and the maths behind finding it.

However, I consistently measured that, for example, 0.815 was too large, so I think that the differences between the value I measured as correct (0.81) and the values other people have linked me to are significant enough to suggest that the calculated values are incorrect.

I imagine you are correct that 0.81 is close enough to the correct value that it makes no difference. There is no gameplay benefit to finding a more accurate value, I'm just curious as to what the exact value is, and the maths behind finding it.

However, I consistently measured that, for example, 0.815 was too large, so I think that the differences between the value I measured as correct (0.81) and the values other people have linked me to are significant enough to suggest that the calculated values are incorrect.
9
#9
0 Frags +

zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.818933027098955175

zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.818933027098955175
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#10
10 Frags +

Having done some further measurements, I'm pretty sure zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.793471 is correct.

According to the link trippa posted, in CS:GO at zoom_sensitivity_ratio_mouse 1 (equivalent to zoom_sensitivity_ratio 1 in TF2) the distance the mouse needs to be moved to move the crosshair from the middle to the left or right edge of the screen at 4:3 is the same when scoped and unscoped.

Having just checked this, the same is true in TF2 at zoom_sensitivity_ratio 1.

This is only true at 4:3 - the game does not compensate for different aspect ratios.

With this information, the following formula can be derived:

zoom_sensitivity_ratio = (unscoped FOV / scoped FOV) * tan (scoped FOV / 2) * cot (unscoped FOV / 2)

At fov_desired 90 and with a scoped FOV of 20 (the value used in TF2), this gives zoom_sensitivity_ratio = 0.793471.

This formula is the same as the one used in the CS:GO thread, the final answer is different because the zoomed FOV for the CS:GO AWP (40 and 10 degrees depending on zoom level, according to the internet) is not the same as for the TF2 sniper rifle (20 degrees).

Additionally, with the scope overlay removed, scoped FOV scales with aspect ratio in the same way as unscoped FOV (vertical FOV is constant, horizontal FOV increases as aspect ratio increases). A combination of this and TF2 ignoring aspect ratio when calculating scoped sensitivity means that the correct value of zoom_sensitivity_ratio is independent of aspect ratio.

Having done some further measurements, I'm pretty sure zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.793471 is correct.

According to the link trippa posted, in CS:GO at zoom_sensitivity_ratio_mouse 1 (equivalent to zoom_sensitivity_ratio 1 in TF2) the distance the mouse needs to be moved to move the crosshair from the middle to the left or right edge of the screen at 4:3 is the same when scoped and unscoped.

Having just checked this, the same is true in TF2 at zoom_sensitivity_ratio 1.

This is only true at 4:3 - the game does not compensate for different aspect ratios.

With this information, the following formula can be derived:

zoom_sensitivity_ratio = (unscoped FOV / scoped FOV) * tan (scoped FOV / 2) * cot (unscoped FOV / 2)

At fov_desired 90 and with a scoped FOV of 20 (the value used in TF2), this gives zoom_sensitivity_ratio = 0.793471.

This formula is the same as the one used in the CS:GO thread, the final answer is different because the zoomed FOV for the CS:GO AWP (40 and 10 degrees depending on zoom level, according to the internet) is not the same as for the TF2 sniper rifle (20 degrees).

Additionally, with the scope overlay removed, scoped FOV scales with aspect ratio in the same way as unscoped FOV (vertical FOV is constant, horizontal FOV increases as aspect ratio increases). A combination of this and TF2 ignoring aspect ratio when calculating scoped sensitivity means that the correct value of zoom_sensitivity_ratio is independent of aspect ratio.
11
#11
0 Frags +

What would be the zoom sens for it to match 1:1 vertically? Just 1?

What would be the zoom sens for it to match 1:1 vertically? Just 1?
12
#12
0 Frags +

zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.793471 will make it feel as close to the same as possible whichever direction you move the crosshair in.

zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.919455 will make it so that the distance the mouse needs to be moved to move the crosshair from the middle to the top or bottom (is this what you meant by "match 1:1 vertically"?) edge of the screen for all aspect ratios and at fov_desired 90 is the same when scoped and unscoped.

I have no idea why you would want to use the latter value. If you already have muscle memory for sniper, leave zoom_sensitivity_ratio the same. If you are new to sniper, set it to 0.793471.

zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.793471 will make it feel as close to the same as possible whichever direction you move the crosshair in.

zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.919455 will make it so that the distance the mouse needs to be moved to move the crosshair from the middle to the top or bottom (is this what you meant by "match 1:1 vertically"?) edge of the screen for all aspect ratios and at fov_desired 90 is the same when scoped and unscoped.

I have no idea why you would want to use the latter value. If you already have muscle memory for sniper, leave zoom_sensitivity_ratio the same. If you are new to sniper, set it to 0.793471.
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