so its basically domination in tf2 ? hmm intresting

1. It kinda seems to reinforce what's bad with koth though, just get an uber advantage and sit back?, they'd just hold the middle ground between the points they've capped with uber ad. I get that they can go to other points but that means having 1 or 2 players controlling each point, as well as the doors/hallways/chokes, which would mean fights are not centralized and just promotes 1v1s.

2. Seems like a massive bitch for casting too, control points are spaced out enough becuase different fights can burst out everywhere, but with that it seems even more frantic.

3. An Obvious point: Unless it was really pushed by valve I think it would hinder comp streams viewership, since that kind of gamemode would be seem very very confusing for new players (since some players with 500+ can;t even understand that a last point captures faster than a mid point LUL)

Interesting stuff nonetheless

it would take 8:20 to hit the mercy rule score with 2 points, 5:30 with 3. You're looking at ~3-4 minutes of most open matches being spawn camps which isn't very exciting. It seems like it'd be fun for close games, but any game that isn't close will just be boring or frustrating, and around halfway through the other team will have such a big point advantage that you'll be able to call the map.

If you are going to inspire from domination, allow me to restore credit where it's due : Unreal Tournament :)

with that said, you now have a few options that you should discuss on tf2maps.net since these guys like experimental things.

Either make a double domination map, either change the way points are accounted for in standard 5 cp maps somehow.

Also give 6s stopwatch maps, gravelpit was actually not stalematey!

The best way to check if it would work is by playing it. But we'd need a map for that and then we'd be able to test the gamemode and edit it or edit the map of needed. I feel like tf2 needs to be reinvented to get a large viewer/playerbase as well.

And yeah twiggy that's what sideshow said, if you have a constant time pressure like in payload or a/d the game becomes much more exiting (payload doesn't work in 6s bc you'd need a scout and soldier on cart at all times.). But everyone was against it for some reason. They probably either thought he was trolling or they enjoy watching stalemates.
I was thinking you could have 5cp in an a/d style?

Just to check everyone realises this isn't a/d right? lolol

Thanks a lot for the suggestion, I'll take it there too. As for gpit that sounded so great I'm unsure why it's not played now (I'm in high now and I still wasn't around when it was played)... ironman holds involved tactical genius (I think that's what holding A/B was called?) and I wanted a gametype which had that constant rotation combined with dm action gpit probably didn't offer.

I don't think so as the way I imagine it would work is to win you would be forced to hold 2 points simultaneously for as long as possible, and if the other team pushes your point with uber ad you can rotate to their point and cap that to maintain the 2-cap in order to gain more points than your opponent. i.e. you can't really sit back as someone is constantly challenging one of your points while another tries to cap it off...

fuck, you might be right though we really need to playtest this to work it out... my brain simply can't hold all the possible ways it could work in one go... i guess it might end up being a shit ton of backcapping... I hope instead it would involve constant rotation and tactical play lol

Isn't it though? I can't imagine any situation when you'd push/hold or do anything really in cp_standin but not in a domination gamemode or vice versa. They're different mechanically, but they play out almost the exact same from what I can tell, and if you changed cp_standin to work more like koth than cp, it'd still be 99% the same strategy-wise.

And really it'd be no fun for the same reasons too: unneeded and seemingly uncontrolled push/hold balancing that's unlike other objectives, and encouraging splitting up teams when it's better for the game to have actual teamfights than multiple small fights happening at any one time. It works fine in unreal tournament or in CoD or whatever, but that doesn't mean it'd work well in tf2.

oh god I remember playing dom_canalzone in UGC HL Season 7 & 10.

http://gamebanana.com/maps/107047

The opinions from the league were mixed enough where the map was never seen again after the first attempt and a half to put it in the map pool. I don't think it was ever tried in a 6s format though, which honestly might have been better.

gravelpit can potentially be good from a higher-end standpoint, but if anything it's even worse for lower-end players. it's not intuitive at all, since you have to work within a small handful of strategies and if any newbie instinctively tries to defend A in matchmaking (which is something that the game heavily implies you can do) the rest of the team will absolutely shit on them if they aren't going for an ironman

I'm surprised there hasn't been any maps that try to basically recreate a two-point version of gravelpit, that would work out far more nicely

All true, you got me to realise the similarity with standin. I'm liking the consensus of bringing stopwatch to 6s but I don't think we'd want to see it on every map- would get stale quickly. I still feel a new gametype needs to be developed, however.

What does Overwatch have? Can we steal their ideas?

Historically speaking, Team Fortress was best played as a CTF game. There were several different ways to play CTF through the years that kept the game "fresh" and "new" so to speak. I really wish CTF could be played with TF2 but it cannot work.

TF2 is not made for the CTF style because TF2 is far too slow. CTF is a fast paced way to play TF and it just isn't plausable in TF2, even if you had Insta-Spawns. Getting from your spawn to the enemy team flag would be a terribly long series of jumps and leave you with virtually no health to fight,

dom_canalzone failed partially because the gamemode wasn't amazing but also because the map itself was way too big, way too confusing, and way too weird to really work. Even with 18 players you could go >30 seconds as a flank class without seeing anyone, and most caps would go uncontested. It misses the benefit of a 3 Dom style: nearly constant fighting.

CTF doesn't work in TF2 because no one's made a CTF map since 2009 and TF2 doesn't have touch flag return. The maps are shit and its hard to make good ones because the gamem mode wont let you play CTF in the best competitive way. Touch return lets playing aggressive and chasing the flag carrier be a better option than turtling and preventing your flag from leaving your base.

I recommend making good A/D and 3cp maps.

adding to that with some small amount of extra context, the timer for the intel in CTF right now makes it so that the second the intel gets even close to mid, trying to defend it is a lost cause. eventually they're going to be able to pull it back into their base, even if you win several teamfights trying to stop it, and even if they can touch the intel for a moment and get blown up otherwise the timer's reset and the rest of their team has all the time in the world to try again

the timer on intel either needs to be heavily sped up, not reset whenever someone new touches it, or tossed out altogether

Touch Return is not the most competitive way to play CTF. It can be fun but thats about it

I think the solution to these stalemates is not to offer a different gamemode--the cp_ format offers some very compelling gameplay, from backcaps to uber pushes that don't require killing anyone--but instead, altering the cp_ format. There are several options to help complete this goal adequately. I will assume that the central problem is getting teams to aggress; usually, a defending team has a much easier time. I'll use Granary as my example, since this is generally considered the most stalematey map. I'm also going to assume these changes only apply to the cp_ format; koth_ is perfect and requires no modification.
1. Capping a point no longer means standing on some small piece of easily spammable ground. On mid, this would mean the entirety of the mid is now cappable, meaning that throughout the fight, playing on the middle point would mean capping an objective. The entirety of 2nd, from the upper balcony that connects to lunchbox, to area between all 3 shutters, would count towards capping, as well as a much larger area on last. It also might be worth considering removing the "blocking a cap" feature, and extending the amount of time required for each cap. Defending a point would mean actually defending it, spamming down whoever decides to stand on your ground. It could also mean retreating more quickly if blocking caps is no longer an option; once any slight advantage is gained, from cap time being nearly completed to a small player advantage, the defending team would be forced to leave.

2. Capping a point grants a power up to the attacking team. The best version of this that I can think of is that a team that has just capped a point is granted an overheal bonus. Any team that just capped 2nd would be granted extra heals to push into last. This powerup should be limited either by a timer, a passive heal bonus (every player standing on the cap gains +50 health, which is gone as soon as any normal overheal would drain), or also possibly negated by the defending team touching the point. With any of these scenarios, the attacking team would be encouraged to push sooner rather than later, creating more fast paced games with less incentive to create stalemates.

I'd love to see some more development in 3cp would probably be alot of fun for really fast games.

A psuedo-domination 3cp would be interesting to try. both teams start with 1 point that builds up to say 100 points in order to cap the other teams point you must also control the middle point. 1 CP = 1 point every 5s ; 2 CPs = 3 points every 5s ; 3 CPs = 6 points every 5s. So if neither team caps a point the round ends after 8:20 in a draw, with 2 CP the entire time it would be about 2:47, with 3 CP it would be about 1:23 (realistically the fastest would be closer to 1:45 due to capping mid + fights)

-edit-
should also make it Bo3

uberchain made an interesting argument for pass time a while back. I'd recommend checking it out and at the very least, reading it

it was a joke.

Isn't passtime essentially a more complicated ctf_bball, where classes other than soldier can play?