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live gunman kills reporter then himself
posted in Off Topic
61
#61
0 Frags +

[h][/h]
62
#62
-4 Frags +
ComangliaShooshComangliaI'd just like to point out that you guy's argument is completely pointless. You guys are talking about regulations on guns that are obtained legally, or removing them entirely. Which doesn't matter cause the VAST majority of gun crime in the US is done with guns obtained on the black market, or just flat out stolen.

Furthermore, outlawing firearms even of certain kinds in the USA is impossible to truly enforce. With guns so pervasive both in quantity and in the culture here. It would take decades to get even close to cutting the number of people with guns in half.

Getting a gun even illegally is probably considerably easier in the US compared to other developed countries. Why? Because there's simply more fucking guns there. Why? Because they're legal. I'm not a politician and I live in the UK so I'm not arguing the fact that we need to ban guns now. That's not to say I don't care about what's happened, I do.

I'd also like to point out that the US is a democratic-republic and with 80ish% of the populace owning guns how many of them do you think are willing to just give up their weapons? That if a law to ban guns or say ban all non-hunting guns were to be passed would be met by a majority populace against the law, a constitutional amendment that's already been interpreted as being meant for everyone not just militia's, and a shit ton of special interest money.

The only thing law makers in the US can really do is ban assault rifles, and maybe require that every gun purchase has to be through a licensed dealer and have a background check done (which is already true in several states)

All that being said, I wish I lived in a country like S. Korea or Japan that has basically no guns in the country.

Did you even read what I typed? "I'm not a politician and I live in the UK so I'm not arguing the fact that we need to ban guns now" :s

[quote=Comanglia][quote=Shoosh][quote=Comanglia]I'd just like to point out that you guy's argument is completely pointless. You guys are talking about regulations on guns that are obtained legally, or removing them entirely. Which doesn't matter cause the VAST majority of gun crime in the US is done with guns obtained on the black market, or just flat out stolen.

Furthermore, outlawing firearms even of certain kinds in the USA is impossible to truly enforce. With guns so pervasive both in quantity and in the culture here. It would take decades to get even close to cutting the number of people with guns in half.[/quote]

Getting a gun even illegally is probably considerably easier in the US compared to other developed countries. Why? Because there's simply more fucking guns there. Why? Because they're legal. I'm not a politician and I live in the UK so I'm not arguing the fact that we need to ban guns now. That's not to say I don't care about what's happened, I do.[/quote]

I'd also like to point out that the US is a democratic-republic and with 80ish% of the populace owning guns how many of them do you think are willing to just give up their weapons? That if a law to ban guns or say ban all non-hunting guns were to be passed would be met by a majority populace against the law, a constitutional amendment that's already been interpreted as being meant for everyone not just militia's, and a shit ton of special interest money.

The only thing law makers in the US can really do is ban assault rifles, and maybe require that every gun purchase has to be through a licensed dealer and have a background check done (which is already true in several states)

All that being said, I wish I lived in a country like S. Korea or Japan that has basically no guns in the country.[/quote]

Did you even read what I typed? "I'm not a politician and I live in the UK so I'm not arguing the fact that we need to ban guns now" :s
63
#63
Momentum Mod
-1 Frags +

these numbers, im goin to germany/UK/japan man fuck this shit

these numbers, im goin to germany/UK/japan man fuck this shit
64
#64
1 Frags +
ComangliaShooshComangliaI'd just like to point out that you guy's argument is completely pointless. You guys are talking about regulations on guns that are obtained legally, or removing them entirely. Which doesn't matter cause the VAST majority of gun crime in the US is done with guns obtained on the black market, or just flat out stolen.

Furthermore, outlawing firearms even of certain kinds in the USA is impossible to truly enforce. With guns so pervasive both in quantity and in the culture here. It would take decades to get even close to cutting the number of people with guns in half.

Getting a gun even illegally is probably considerably easier in the US compared to other developed countries. Why? Because there's simply more fucking guns there. Why? Because they're legal. I'm not a politician and I live in the UK so I'm not arguing the fact that we need to ban guns now. That's not to say I don't care about what's happened, I do.

I'd also like to point out that the US is a democratic-republic and with 80ish% of the populace owning guns how many of them do you think are willing to just give up their weapons? That if a law to ban guns or say ban all non-hunting guns were to be passed would be met by a majority populace against the law, a constitutional amendment that's already been interpreted as being meant for everyone not just militia's, and a shit ton of special interest money.

The only thing law makers in the US can really do is ban assault rifles, and maybe require that every gun purchase has to be through a licensed dealer and have a background check done (which is already true in several states)

All that being said, I wish I lived in a country like S. Korea or Japan that has basically no guns in the country.

I think the number of gun owners is actually lower but the gun:person ratio is probably about 80%(most gun owners own more than one gun).

the term "assault rifle" actually sucks because most guns considered "assault rifles/weapons" are civilian grade guns and would be less than ideal for military use. Further more, more banning these rifles would actually do very little effect to gun homicides. Released data from the FBI database between the years 2007 and 2011 show that rifles only account for 3.7% of all homicides committed by firearms. Handguns being used by gangs in the inner city cause most of the gun crime bringing in 72.5% of gun homicides.

Many people against guns have never been properly shown how to use a gun and are generally uniformed and think guns are evil and scary because hollywood/wars/music etc.

There are a few reasons why guns should be available to law abiding, mentally stable, and informed citizens.
-Personal safety
Many people bring up domestic safety as the main reason for buying a gun. There have been many cases in the U.S. in which people are alive because they own a gun and were able to protect themselves, family and castle

-The Government
Second Amendment
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

we have the natural right to protect ourselves

-Competition

This if very important for me, Many gun enthusiasts such as myself enter into competitions. Banning guns is a lot like banning tf2 (to me at least). It is an incredibly fun and educational hobby to have.
-Recreation
A lot of people own guns to shoot at the range just for the fun of it. If you've never shot a gun you're missing out, it is a hell of a good time.
-Hunting
There are many hunters in rural areas that have a culture of hunting. Hunting does many good things for the ecosystem in some areas. The primary is controlling the population of certain species. Some areas are overpopulated with deer or other game animals simply because there are no natural predators other than humans.
- Businesses
There are a lot of businesses in manufacturing guns, gun parts, gun accessories, ammo, benches, reloading parts, and much more. Shutting down guns means shutting down a significant part of American manufacturing and economic growth.

In conclusion guns are a very important part of American culture. The problems we are facing today is psychopathic/sociopath and gangs in inner cities. Taking away guns, or making it harder to get guns fro law abiding, mentally stable citizens does not mean it is harder for people with the intent to commit crime for them to get guns or commit the crime.

[quote=Comanglia][quote=Shoosh][quote=Comanglia]I'd just like to point out that you guy's argument is completely pointless. You guys are talking about regulations on guns that are obtained legally, or removing them entirely. Which doesn't matter cause the VAST majority of gun crime in the US is done with guns obtained on the black market, or just flat out stolen.

Furthermore, outlawing firearms even of certain kinds in the USA is impossible to truly enforce. With guns so pervasive both in quantity and in the culture here. It would take decades to get even close to cutting the number of people with guns in half.[/quote]

Getting a gun even illegally is probably considerably easier in the US compared to other developed countries. Why? Because there's simply more fucking guns there. Why? Because they're legal. I'm not a politician and I live in the UK so I'm not arguing the fact that we need to ban guns now. That's not to say I don't care about what's happened, I do.[/quote]

I'd also like to point out that the US is a democratic-republic and with 80ish% of the populace owning guns how many of them do you think are willing to just give up their weapons? That if a law to ban guns or say ban all non-hunting guns were to be passed would be met by a majority populace against the law, a constitutional amendment that's already been interpreted as being meant for everyone not just militia's, and a shit ton of special interest money.

The only thing law makers in the US can really do is ban assault rifles, and maybe require that every gun purchase has to be through a licensed dealer and have a background check done (which is already true in several states)

All that being said, I wish I lived in a country like S. Korea or Japan that has basically no guns in the country.[/quote]
I think the number of gun owners is actually lower but the gun:person ratio is probably about 80%(most gun owners own more than one gun).

the term "assault rifle" actually sucks because most guns considered "assault rifles/weapons" are civilian grade guns and would be less than ideal for military use. Further more, more banning these rifles would actually do very little effect to gun homicides. [url=https://www.quandl.com/data/FBI/WEAPONS11-US-Murders-by-Weapon-Type-2007-2011]Released data from the FBI database[/url] between the years 2007 and 2011 show that rifles only account for [b]3.7%[/b] of all homicides committed by firearms. Handguns being used by gangs in the inner city cause most of the gun crime bringing in [b]72.5%[/b] of gun homicides.

Many people against guns have never been properly shown how to use a gun and are generally uniformed and think guns are evil and scary because hollywood/wars/music etc.

There are a few reasons why guns should be available to [b]law abiding, mentally stable, and informed citizens[/b].
-Personal safety
Many people bring up domestic safety as the main reason for buying a gun. There have been many cases in the U.S. in which people are alive because they own a gun and were able to protect themselves, family and castle

-The Government
[b]Second Amendment[/b]
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

we have the natural right to protect ourselves

-Competition

This if very important for me, Many gun enthusiasts such as myself enter into competitions. Banning guns is a lot like banning tf2 (to me at least). It is an incredibly fun and educational hobby to have.
-Recreation
A lot of people own guns to shoot at the range just for the fun of it. If you've never shot a gun you're missing out, it is a hell of a good time.
-Hunting
There are many hunters in rural areas that have a culture of hunting. Hunting does many good things for the ecosystem in some areas. The primary is controlling the population of certain species. Some areas are overpopulated with deer or other game animals simply because there are no natural predators other than humans.
- Businesses
There are a lot of businesses in manufacturing guns, gun parts, gun accessories, ammo, benches, reloading parts, and much more. Shutting down guns means shutting down a significant part of American manufacturing and economic growth.

In conclusion guns are a very important part of American culture. The problems we are facing today is psychopathic/sociopath and gangs in inner cities. Taking away guns, or making it harder to get guns fro law abiding, mentally stable citizens does not mean it is harder for people with the intent to commit crime for them to get guns or commit the crime.
65
#65
5 Frags +

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11930746_671165486317614_1036681546252576810_o.png

problem is just how easy it is to get a gun
nothing else

[img]https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11930746_671165486317614_1036681546252576810_o.png[/img]

problem is just how easy it is to get a gun
nothing else
66
#66
0 Frags +

[h][/h]
67
#67
3 Frags +
ComangliaMy point on banning assault rifles, is more to do with that being basically the only option a politician could go after cause any complete bans on handguns/hunting guns (shotguns/rifles/etc) wouldn't have enough popularity.

Also most of the guns used in homicides are gained via purchasing from unlicensed dealers (approx. 55%), stolen (approx. 10%), traded for (approx. 8%), either borrowed from or had another person purchase a weapon from a licensed dealer (approx. 20%) almost all the rest comes from other countries

banning any sort of rifle will do little to nothing. They just look scary to people who don't shoot guns. Tbh, more support would go to better laws for handguns to keep them out of criminal hands. There are plenty of options politicians can do. The problem of gun violence in general is most of these incidents where gun murders occur is in the inner city by gangbangers and it has become more of a cultural problem. The problem of highly publicized shootings is radical antisocial (the psychology definition) behavior. A common factor in these shootings is mental illness.

[quote=Comanglia]My point on banning assault rifles, is more to do with that being basically the only option a politician could go after cause any complete bans on handguns/hunting guns (shotguns/rifles/etc) wouldn't have enough popularity.

Also most of the guns used in homicides are gained via purchasing from unlicensed dealers (approx. 55%), stolen (approx. 10%), traded for (approx. 8%), either borrowed from or had another person purchase a weapon from a licensed dealer (approx. 20%) almost all the rest comes from other countries[/quote]

banning any sort of rifle will do little to nothing. They just look scary to people who don't shoot guns. Tbh, more support would go to better laws for handguns to keep them out of criminal hands. There are plenty of options politicians can do. The problem of gun violence in general is most of these incidents where gun murders occur is in the inner city by gangbangers and it has become more of a cultural problem. The problem of highly publicized shootings is radical antisocial (the psychology definition) behavior. A common factor in these shootings is [b]mental illness.[/b]
68
#68
1 Frags +

[h][/h]
69
#69
-1 Frags +

its just flat out fucked up

its just flat out fucked up
70
#70
-10 Frags +

America Doesn’t Have a Gun Problem, Guns Have an America Problem.

America Doesn’t Have a Gun Problem, Guns Have an America Problem.
71
#71
2 Frags +

It´s not rocket sience, less guns= less people getting killed by guns.

If you actually do research ( which you don´t have to do much on considering even the daily show did three videos about that topic, comparing the us to australia) you would see that australia was in pretty much the exact same position as the us still is now. People were freaking out how their country would become a police state, how there would be no way of defending yourself without a gun etc., and also a lot of people that don´t understant that gun control isn´t the same thing as banning guns entirely. Since the government enforced gun control in australia, every statistics regarding people getting killed,killing others or killing themselves with guns has gone down dramaticly. Again, not suprising if you understand the simple concept of less guns=less people getting killed by guns. And even the people that were initially against it, and even protesting against it, now see that gun control is good.

And that whole process of enfocring gun control took three months. Three months, thats it. Now, frankly the US doesn´t only have more citizens but also more guns so it would naturally take a little longer then that, mabye a year or two tops.

Not to forget how outdated the second ammendment is.

It´s not rocket sience, less guns= less people getting killed by guns.

If you actually do research ( which you don´t have to do much on considering even the daily show did three videos about that topic, comparing the us to australia) you would see that australia was in pretty much the exact same position as the us still is now. People were freaking out how their country would become a police state, how there would be no way of defending yourself without a gun etc., and also a lot of people that don´t understant that gun control isn´t the same thing as banning guns entirely. Since the government enforced gun control in australia, every statistics regarding people getting killed,killing others or killing themselves with guns has gone down dramaticly. Again, not suprising if you understand the simple concept of less guns=less people getting killed by guns. And even the people that were initially against it, and even protesting against it, now see that gun control is good.

And that whole process of enfocring gun control took three months. Three months, thats it. Now, frankly the US doesn´t only have more citizens but also more guns so it would naturally take a little longer then that, mabye a year or two tops.


Not to forget how outdated the second ammendment is.
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#72
0 Frags +

people always counter argue that even if there are less guns fucked up people will still somehow manage to get them

people always counter argue that even if there are less guns fucked up people will still somehow manage to get them
73
#73
4 Frags +

"Unless you can get rid of 100% of crime, it´s not worth doing at all?"

"Unless you can get rid of 100% of crime, it´s not worth doing at all?"
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#74
1 Frags +

Sure fucked up people will still manage to get them, it's like that in every other country and let's see how it's going for them:

Show Content

Oh yeah, still 5 times better than America. Bad people still get guns in other countries and they're still better off, so I don't see the point in that arguement

Sure fucked up people will still manage to get them, it's like that in every other country and let's see how it's going for them:
[spoiler][img]https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11930746_671165486317614_1036681546252576810_o.png[/img][/spoiler]
Oh yeah, still 5 times better than America. Bad people still get guns in other countries and they're still better off, so I don't see the point in that arguement
75
#75
7 Frags +

Just because you're not statistically the worst country in the world on every gun related graph it doesn't mean that you don't need to get your shit together.

Just because you're not statistically the worst country in the world on every gun related graph it doesn't mean that you don't need to get your shit together.
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