I think you misunderstood what I was saying here, I wasn't focusing specifically on whether or not the community writ large likes this version of villa/has had enough time to suggest changes to it (though that is important). I was saying that, if the map goes in the pool without a large enough percentage of players having gotten used to it enough to know how it plays in very basic ways (the rollouts, where all the common flank routes are, etc), everyone will just permaban it and it'll be a massive lose-lose.

If the only goal is to get map feedback then yeah the new map pugs are a great place, but that's self-selecting for people who WANT to play new maps. The average competitive player in like IM or Main has probably never even seen villa let alone played it, and I think a map needs to be more ubiquitous in a pug setting before it's added (I was around when process was first added, for instance, and it was pugged HEAVILY beforehand, and not just in new map places).

yeah but it's also a bad thing that the ruleset is so different between invite and all the other divs imo

as for whether or not to let open players weigh in, I understand both sides of the argument, but at the very least they should have a chance to play a map a bit more- have it in pugchamp and nut city, maybe make some tf2centers on it- before it goes in the pool

also personal opinion- what's wrong with reckoner? I think it's easily the best of the 5cp options (and please don't say "the developer isn't working on it anymore"- I highly doubt that had an effect on how the invite players were rating it 1-5 right after the map cup, that would almost certainly be based on their experience playing it right then and there)

I agree with this, the admins love doing this process where they say "ok so we're removing granary and explicitly replacing it with one of the maps we pre-selected to be in this new map scrim thing, of those maps which was your favorite" and pretending it is the equivalent of voting for a map change when

1) they have no proof people actually wanted to get rid of granary

2) they have no proof people would've selected that specific map to do so out of ALL possible options

3) they don't even have proof people prefer that map to granary in a 1v1 matchup

I hate this logic of starting with assumptions like "the maps need to change every season" or "the ratio of custom maps needs to go up" as if they're just facts without interrogating who agrees with you and to what extent, the best admins are glorified pollsters when it comes to this stuff, just sayin!

p.s. detonator and scorch shot are total cancer, good luck dealing with those ape weapons

I love viaduct tho, including on soldier :)

If villa won they’d say “see, the community is ready to move on from granary”

Because granary is winning they’ll say “see, this is why we needed to just add the new map, the community fears change”

I just wish the admins would stop being so paternalistic and focus on accurately surveying the community and/or the invite team leaders depending on issue

P.S. PLEASE don’t have a 10 team invite unless you’re adding more matches too, the bye week is a much smaller issue than uneven strength of schedule

P.P.S. My team is probably being force moved up to invite and yet I haven’t gotten to vote on shit yet

Did you ask people to rate the new maps compared to each other or did you ask them whether they thought certain maps were good enough to replace the old ones

Like I for one would like to see a granary vs Villa poll for instance

I never thought my first reaction in a thread like this would be "wow, I really agree with alfa", but here we are

I understand testing such a massive change extensively before implementing it, I just wish people who didn't consistently play/watch high lvl tf2 for this whole time period would accept that some of us remember when the game was in its very best state (depending on whether or not you like the demo nerf this would be either i52ish or i55ish) and saw the really boring changes that the med speed change ushered in

a better counterargument would be to suggest that the skill level of players, particularly soldiers, has increased enough that we can't predict how a med speed-less game would be in 2020; maybe soldier bombs would just be too good, even against the best medics and pocket scouts in the game. that's what testing is for, which is valid.

deserves invite or at the very least high high advanced

edit: dont cut me tho froot

I can't wait to play advanced this season! My friends and I are excited to have a great season in the advanced division!

killing more than one person with a single pipe

or killing med with kritz in the spawn doors

yeah wtf why not take jeudy or lamb

miles is one of the nicest dudes ive ever played on a team with, also a great bassist

If you like metroidvanias I've been playing a ton of those lately and can offer some recommendations

if u die in game u die in real life

https://clips.twitch.tv/EagerBrainyCrocodileCoolCat