occulus rift is the shit. They need a few diff cvars put into TF for it, then it'd be totally usable. When V2 comes out maybe I'll buy...

J

 I'm not sure casts are supposed to cater towards the watchers that get bored easily.

Casts should definitely cater towards viewers not being bored.

Very generally speaking, I'd rather anyone watch 2 30 minute tf2 videos featuring different maps or whatever versus having anyone watch 1 60 minute video.

parking the bus is already sometimes an issue. I'd rather have shorter games overall, for all formats.

TBH when I look to post-produce cast games, if they're 45 mins + I look for a different game. Just too long to stay completely focused.

#2 why yes, this is similar to the European system. Don't take it as a coincidence and pat yourself on the back for that one.

Back for the original pugna draft cup we used a format I devised in which it was two 30 min maps and the overall winner was devised by the aggregate result not the aggregate score. If team A wins map 1, then for map 2 they need either a draw or a win to take the match. If team B wins map 2, then the aggregate is equal and the teams need to have an overtime period. Overtime is played on map 2 as an additional 15 minute period. If that 15 minute period is a draw, then a sudden death OT round, again on Map 2 takes place.

Thoughts?

I have a clip I can contribute.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5894323/airshotvictim-eXtine-47000.dem

Trying to jump onto train on badlands while escaping, get popped into the air, circle strafe and get airshot.

ftfy #14

good points #13, eXperimentation will show whether banning stocks is viable with tweaks or whether it's a ridiculous idea. I don't claim to know the answer.

You can't ever ban stock weapons because for some players, they are the only ones available.*

*unless you auto-loan weapons during lobbies and everything is available.

I have been told that the Grand Finals are tonight at 7pm est. ElenaMorning has asked me to cast and I'm so hyped.

http://www.twitch.tv/eXtvESports

yes definitely.

1-2 protects in the beginning would be cool. Even with totally open picks, wrangler isn't that op and both teams will have the items.

I think 12 is a great total number for bans. Kappy is running a poll and the results are interesting. http://kwiksurveys.com/app/showpoll.asp?qid=164684&sid=qdn4r4wyvdtr8dx164684&new=True

#125 had me going really well at the beginning but you started to lose me at random crits.

I don't like scenario #1 because banning the Dead Ringer is an obvious for me. So are the vita saw and the overdose for the medic.

I'm leaning towards 2+3 but I think that the # of bans doesn't really need to be that high.

You could do ban's and protects. 4 weapons are banned by 2 turns of picks made by the captains. 4 weapons can then be protected by alternating picks, and then 4 more weapons are banned. I think 8 bans might be enough, but you could push it to 12 easily. 3/3/3.

this thread is blowin up. keep kicking around ideas.

I just filmed a vlog Luc will be polishing up and posting later today. 15 min long, get into a few other things I talked to Valve about. Oh yeah, Granary symmetry. didn't mention it in the video but I pointed that out to a few Valvers. thanks mackey.

arx's mockup is fantastic. eXactly what I was thinking of starting to work on later.

Keep the discussion going guys!

Forcing adaptation is a big part of what Robin was trying to get across. It forces players to be more multi-faceted as well as created uneXpected situations that lead to eXciting game play possibilities.

If only 12 unlocks are being used in a highlander match, then that tells them something too.

Yyyaaaoooo.

Chiming in finally. Gonna try and make it short, then write a letter my letter of thanks to valve for another awesome visit.

I read through the thread and a lot of great thoughts that I'm sure will provide good feedback for the tfteam.

Two important things.

This isn't an attack on 6v6 and highlander is currently the best place for a pick/ban system to be tested.

The argument of the TF team has been for a long time that they don't want to devote resources to tuning competitive play when they could be tuning play for EVERYONE. It's a whole lot more efficient and you can't really argue with it.

I can understand why Killing is passionately confused by this but he shouldn't be sweating his job. The nature of 6v6 breaks the 9-class balance of TF2 and necessitates the restrictions of items. The 6s community has considered banning heavies.

6v6 is a much more eXclusive format than Highlander, and it definitely does have its merits. If TF2 ever is gonna have big money prizes it'll be for 6s.

If TF2 is ever gonna have big money prizes, then we need to continue to grow as a competitive community and that's what this is about.

As Salamancer has been stating, Valve is in need of direct ways in which they can accurately measure how weapons are viewed by the community and whether said weapons are unbalanced. The competitive scenario of DOTA gives them feedback on whether heroes need buffs or nerfs. They had a slight Visage buff planned for Dota2 before the east qualifiers because Visage WAS an under-used hero.

If a pick/ban system could be implemented and Valve could gather data like: Pomson gets banned EVERYTIME, then it's much easier for them to see omg this needs to be changed.

One final point to bring us back around on how this relates more to highlander than 6s. Highlander is much more closer to the public game eXperience. It makes way more sense for them to tune their weapons based off of competitive feedback in the arena of Highlander. If a pick/ban system was put into place in 6s, the data would be heavily skewed due to how classes are used.

NOW, let's re-iterate what myself and Sal could use YOUR help with.

Picks/Bans. How many and when? Let's theory craft this shit together.

The Item pool for what can be picked/banned could be restricted for now to ease the shock of eXperimentation and eventual implementation. Do not allow full sets to be completed for eXample. You could also have a list of guaranteed weapons like kritz gunboats boston basher and escape plan, at least for the start.

You could take this idea far enough to decide that banning stock weapons is okay but that is another inital step we do not have to take.

Picks could work like: Each team blind bans 2 weapons from a class and blind picks 2 or 3 available weapons for each class. Could then go into another wild card pick/ban.

Last sentence I swear: If you wanna try dota style pick bans for 6s by all means PLEASE go ahead.