I'd like to weigh in here. The ETF2L Anti-Cheat team does appreciate receiving constructive feedback even if it doesn't always seem that way to the community. I certainly prefer the constructive takes in this thread over stuff I have seen for previous bans from people with zero competitive experience who somehow still knew enough to commentate on ETF2L AC matters, apparently.
But unlike League Admins who are able to apply the feedback they get from polls or requests by testing or changing stuff up for the next season, the stuff we get is mostly about Anti-Cheat policies we absolutely cannot change. That we should share evidence or give out information regarding cases, for example. Or it is feedback that we are taking too long, acting too fast / that we ban people who are innocent, that we are biased and so on.
Due to the secretive nature of our positions we cannot talk much about our work, having to say the same thing over and over again to different people when we know it's not what they actually want to hear. You are frustrated, we are frustrated, but in the end this is just something we have to deal with because we know the negative effect it would have for AC otherwise.
To quote quintosh:
quintoshAs other people have assumed, "they can learn" has nothing to do with whether people code their own cheats or use paid public or private cheats. It has to do with the way they've configured whatever cheat they use, which values they use and which features they've used that caused them to appear on an AC's radar.
And after something like 8 years of being part of the AC staff I can tell you that certain do's and don'ts when it comes to cheating in competitive are still not public knowledge and as long as it is like that, a majority of cheaters will get
busted, simply because AC teams have withheld that specific information.
This cannot be stated often enough. You might not want to believe it without proof and I can't really blame you for that, it's good to remain skeptical sometimes. But if current staff members and previous staff members, some in this thread, say the same thing with different words I don't really know what else to say other than just believe that we aren't trying to bullshit you with excuses on purpose.
What I'd like to add as a different argument though is that we are also protecting our sources and reporters by not providing any information on what exact situation the cheating happened in. Revealing this can also have an effect not just in the trust reporters have for us but it may also remove our access to things that aren't really public knowledge if we share the sources, or reduce the value they give us for our own future investigations.
I cannot really comment on the "magic tools" we supposedly have, but it's really not as easy as that when investigating someone (sadly).
I think ban reasons were also mentioned in this thread. It's true that ETF2L had more precise ban reasons for cheating in the past, but in 2020 we decided to change the reason because they gave away what the AC team found, which seemed counterintuitive to our policy on information sharing, plus they might have led to some confusion in the community at times. A more general "Cheating" ban reason which the other TF2 leagues were also using seemed like the better solution.
AC admins make decisions to the best of their ability and understanding of the game, cheat tells and the case material, having policies in place to minimise the possibility of biased decision-making, requiring a majority of staff to agree with the findings without anyone pointing out a flaw in the investigation. If we have made any mistakes on any ban then we are genuinely sorry to those affected. We don't ban anyone for cheating simply because we dislike them. We judge the evidence that is available and only when we think it's conclusive enough we will ban, not before.
Now, Baud was mentioned in this thread, to which I'd just like to say that not only did he get banned for cheating twice and the bans were never overturned, but the decisions were also made by two different AC teams each time.
On the topic of perma bans:
Even with a permanent ban for cheating or getting 2 TF2 VACs it's not the end of the line, according to rule 6.2.1:
ETF2L General Rules6.2.1 Permanent Cheating Ban Appeals
Players who have been permanently banned from ETF2L for cheating may appeal their ban if certain conditions are met:
In order to file an appeal, please contact our admin staff on Discord. Decisions will be made at admin discretion.
- Their permanent ban was applied at least 2 years ago.
- There have been no attempts to evade their ban. This for example includes creating alternate accounts on ETF2L or sharing accounts with other players.
- They have not cheated again or received a TF2 VAC during their ban time.
- There have not been any substantial behavior reports made against the player after their ban.
- The ban did not happen after a previous appeal was already successful.
The players have to follow these requirements and they can apply for an appeal two years after their permanent ban. Spamming recruitment posts with... weird stuff is not the way to go.
We would appreciate a more general interest in Anti-Cheat because the numbers of people who would want to do it, have the time and are qualified for it is decreasing. We get applications where you question yourself if it's a serious application or a troll, the user has a questionable league history or you have to worry about potential ulterior motivations to gain information, or they only want to focus on certain divs or gamemodes when we need people for the entire league. League experience sadly also isn't really an indicator for how useful of an AC admin will be judging from test case results I have seen from high to top div players (not going to name anyone). People see blatant cheating when it's not happening, and miss the stuff we actually wanted them to see or at least consider when analysing demos.
I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future, if no suitable replacements are found or they also left, that TF2 leagues will no longer have dedicated Anti-Cheat teams anymore and it might revert into some sort of weird mix of League/AC admin input like 2011 and before.
This doesn't only apply to EU, by the way. If any NA etc. players are reading this who want to give AC a try, please go for it and apply to your leagues.
I do wish that Valve would finally step up and do literally anything with VAC in TF2. Anti-Cheat generally has a massive backlog. Some cases are relatively "easy"; others take weeks or longer to investigate, meaning we have to prioritise while also not forgetting about the other cases we still have to work on. If you resolve a case, two new ones come in. Having VAC as a "backup" and a form of credibility (players banned for cheating who end up with a VAC later on) would help a lot, but that might remain wishful thinking until Valve shows a bigger interest in TF2 again.