Comangliaulmyxxhow the fuck is opening a case or crate not fucking gambling? I understand being against gambling websites that rig odds but how the fuck u gonna tell them not to allow gambling if all you ever do is let people gamble.
SpaceCadetOpening a crate is not gambling. You pay for a key so you are essentially paying for merchandise. I see a clear difference.
The reason why crates are legal is because you're guaranteed to win/get something. Same reason carnival games are legal, just because you don't "win" you do always get a small/crap prize if you want it.
Hit it right on the mark.
[quote=Comanglia][quote=ulmyxx]how the fuck is opening a case or crate not fucking gambling? I understand being against gambling websites that rig odds but how the fuck u gonna tell them not to allow gambling if all you ever do is let people gamble.[/quote]
[quote=SpaceCadet]Opening a crate is not gambling. You pay for a key so you are essentially paying for merchandise. I see a clear difference.[/quote]
The reason why crates are legal is because you're guaranteed to win/get something. Same reason carnival games are legal, just because you don't "win" you do always get a small/crap prize if you want it.[/quote]
Hit it right on the mark.
Comangliaulmyxxhow the fuck is opening a case or crate not fucking gambling? I understand being against gambling websites that rig odds but how the fuck u gonna tell them not to allow gambling if all you ever do is let people gamble.
SpaceCadetOpening a crate is not gambling. You pay for a key so you are essentially paying for merchandise. I see a clear difference.
The reason why crates are legal is because you're guaranteed to win/get something. Same reason carnival games are legal, just because you don't "win" you do always get a small/crap prize if you want it.
Not sure how that relates to anything I have said but I agree with the statement. I wasn't talking about anything legal or illegal. The act of opening a crate/box with a key is not gambling. What you choose to do with your "items" is your choice. Either gamble or not at that point.
[quote=Comanglia][quote=ulmyxx]how the fuck is opening a case or crate not fucking gambling? I understand being against gambling websites that rig odds but how the fuck u gonna tell them not to allow gambling if all you ever do is let people gamble.[/quote]
[quote=SpaceCadet]Opening a crate is not gambling. You pay for a key so you are essentially paying for merchandise. I see a clear difference.[/quote]
The reason why crates are legal is because you're guaranteed to win/get something. Same reason carnival games are legal, just because you don't "win" you do always get a small/crap prize if you want it.[/quote]
Not sure how that relates to anything I have said but I agree with the statement. I wasn't talking about anything legal or illegal. The act of opening a crate/box with a key is not gambling. What you choose to do with your "items" is your choice. Either gamble or not at that point.
Ond_kajaThe reason why crate openings are especially sinister is because they work on the same principle as slot machines. They are specifically designed to provide instant strong postive stimuli whenever the player wins, which reinforces the behaviour of spending more money to keep winning and getting the positive stimuli, regardless of the long term results.
I think this is debatable. For a start you always get something with a crate, also to go into a crate opening frenzy you have to acquire them. They drop pretty slowly, a slot machine is ever present and it's perfectly happy to accept your cash at any moment. That's an important distinction. You can acquire crates from the market but you have to go and do it, they don't just endlessly refill.
There's also the sensory feedback element, slots are designed to give high intensity sensory feedback which has been shown to alter user's conscious state and to create a sense of winning when losing. Last time I opened a crate it was a pretty unremarkable affair, except for the rather muted countdown. It's disingenuous to liken crates to slot machines, they're on an entirely different level of manipulation and destructive behaviour in my view. I think something like Hearthstone card packs are closer to slot machines in this regard.
The crate and item system in TF2 can have upsides, things like grasping the basics of economics, trading, understanding value, etc. None of these are present in gambling, you simply stake your money and you win or lose. I can see where your coming from and "problem uncrating" is possible, but I think the seriousness of the case is overstated in this instance.
[quote=Ond_kaja]The reason why crate openings are especially sinister is because they work on the same principle as slot machines. They are specifically designed to provide instant strong postive stimuli whenever the player wins, which reinforces the behaviour of spending more money to keep winning and getting the positive stimuli, regardless of the long term results.[/quote]
I think this is debatable. For a start you always get something with a crate, also to go into a crate opening frenzy you have to acquire them. They drop pretty slowly, a slot machine is ever present and it's perfectly happy to accept your cash at any moment. That's an important distinction. You can acquire crates from the market but you have to go and do it, they don't just endlessly refill.
There's also the sensory feedback element, slots are designed to give high intensity sensory feedback which has been shown to alter user's conscious state and to create a sense of winning when losing. Last time I opened a crate it was a pretty unremarkable affair, except for the rather muted countdown. It's disingenuous to liken crates to slot machines, they're on an entirely different level of manipulation and destructive behaviour in my view. I think something like Hearthstone card packs are closer to slot machines in this regard.
The crate and item system in TF2 can have upsides, things like grasping the basics of economics, trading, understanding value, etc. None of these are present in gambling, you simply stake your money and you win or lose. I can see where your coming from and "problem uncrating" is [i]possible[/i], but I think the seriousness of the case is overstated in this instance.
while not like crate opening i think this article is a bit relevant to the discussion
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-09/-6-065-hunt-for-blonde-avatar-exposes-dark-side-of-japan-gaming
i see the positives with these systems for a lot of games and has definitely given more revenue to game companies to make better games but the whole concept really leaves a bad taste in my mouth
while not like crate opening i think this article is a bit relevant to the discussion
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-09/-6-065-hunt-for-blonde-avatar-exposes-dark-side-of-japan-gaming
i see the positives with these systems for a lot of games and has definitely given more revenue to game companies to make better games but the whole concept really leaves a bad taste in my mouth