I ask everyone to excuse my english (It is not my native language)
I’m here to introduce my map : CP_Wetcoal (5CP)
I’m working on this map with the help of competitive players in my country, not yet made a definite texture and external scenario this map, I’m collecting idea of paths and also positions of boxes of ammo and life.
Seeking opinions from other competitive players to make this map a good map 6 vs 6
Get attention with the rollouts of soldiers and demoman (And I would like opinions on this)
Some screens of the map:
middle:
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/mid01.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/mid02.jpg[/img]
Second:
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/seg01.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/seg02.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/seg03.jpg[/img]
Last:
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/Base00.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/Base01.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/Base02.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/Base03.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/Base04.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/Base05.jpg[/img]
Download:
[u]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build03b/cp_wetcoal_build_03b.zip[/u]
Could just be me, but mid looks really small (and the point is identical to foundry's). Last looks a lot like follower's (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=6434). It's cool to get inspiration from other maps, but this is like... exactly the same thing.
Also, be careful with sightlines. Just looking at your screenshots, I'm not sure, but it looks like there's a few big lines for snipers.
Could just be me, but mid looks really small (and the point is identical to foundry's). Last looks a lot like follower's (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=6434). It's cool to get inspiration from other maps, but this is like... exactly the same thing.
Also, be careful with sightlines. Just looking at your screenshots, I'm not sure, but it looks like there's a few big lines for snipers.
I like the mid and 2nd point layout except a few things here are bothering me. Mid looks really clustered because the two buildings are actually quite close to each other and yeah what Koobadoobs said is that last looks identical to follower.
edit: tested rollouts. Rolling out on this map is really difficult for soldiers. The first jump for soldiers out of spawn can easily be messed up by clipping onto the barrels on the right side. Large open land between coming into 2nd point on the way to middle ensures that soldiers will be slow to middle unless they equalize. Middle has about 5/6 ways that people can get behind you and an easy jumping spot from the crates at mid makes mid fight a playground for roamers and scouts.
edit 2: Middle really isn't that clustered just a lot (too much imo) of ways to traverse mid point and the building spacing is just about right for a soldier to jump from one building to the other.
I like the mid and 2nd point layout except a few things here are bothering me. Mid looks really clustered because the two buildings are actually quite close to each other and yeah what Koobadoobs said is that last looks identical to follower.
edit: tested rollouts. Rolling out on this map is really difficult for soldiers. The first jump for soldiers out of spawn can easily be messed up by clipping onto the barrels on the right side. Large open land between coming into 2nd point on the way to middle ensures that soldiers will be slow to middle unless they equalize. Middle has about 5/6 ways that people can get behind you and an easy jumping spot from the crates at mid makes mid fight a playground for roamers and scouts.
edit 2: Middle really isn't that clustered just a lot (too much imo) of ways to traverse mid point and the building spacing is just about right for a soldier to jump from one building to the other.
I don't really like 2nd point. If you are trying to defend it, there is literally no place for the combo to stand without getting spammed, flanked, or bombed easily. The flanking areas are uncoverable by defenders because there are entrances that are at mid and exits that go behind second as well as the regular flanks. You cannot hold on point either because the demo can just spam over the rock. In general, there are way too many entrances and exits for a team to manage. I think that most of the lower and out of the way routes should be taken out. Like, all the routes (on the whole map) that have water.
I don't really like 2nd point. If you are trying to defend it, there is literally no place for the combo to stand without getting spammed, flanked, or bombed easily. The flanking areas are uncoverable by defenders because there are entrances that are at mid and exits that go behind second as well as the regular flanks. You cannot hold on point either because the demo can just spam over the rock. In general, there are way too many entrances and exits for a team to manage. I think that most of the lower and out of the way routes should be taken out. Like, all the routes (on the whole map) that have water.
kaceI don't really like 2nd point. If you are trying to defend it, there is literally no place for the combo to stand without getting spammed, flanked, or bombed easily. The flanking areas are uncoverable by defenders because there are entrances that are at mid and exits that go behind second as well as the regular flanks. You cannot hold on point either because the demo can just spam over the rock. In general, there are way too many entrances and exits for a team to manage. I think that most of the lower and out of the way routes should be taken out. Like, all the routes (on the whole map) that have water.
Agreed.
As a general rule, every point should have ~3 entrances each from the point before or after it. The last point sometimes has 4 (because last points should, in general, be more difficult to push into, so it compensates), but rarely more than that.
[quote=kace]I don't really like 2nd point. If you are trying to defend it, there is literally no place for the combo to stand without getting spammed, flanked, or bombed easily. The flanking areas are uncoverable by defenders because there are entrances that are at mid and exits that go behind second as well as the regular flanks. You cannot hold on point either because the demo can just spam over the rock. In general, there are way too many entrances and exits for a team to manage. I think that most of the lower and out of the way routes should be taken out. Like, all the routes (on the whole map) that have water.[/quote]
Agreed.
As a general rule, every point should have ~3 entrances each from the point before or after it. The last point sometimes has 4 (because last points should, in general, be more difficult to push into, so it compensates), but rarely more than that.
are the walls going to have a different texture?
are the walls going to have a different texture?
Banaynayare the walls going to have a different texture?
RogerMastersnot yet made a definite texture and external scenario this map
[quote=Banaynay]are the walls going to have a different texture?[/quote]
[quote=RogerMasters]not yet made a definite texture and external scenario this map[/quote]
Spawn Room:
Spawn room is pretty good. Only problems are the health cabinets. They're not in terrible spots necessarily, but they're really inconvenient for people who don't get the better spawns. If you don't make your spawn jump correctly, you'll slow yourself down by getting the health (for demos, soldier doesn't matter). This only applies if you plan on purposely jumping out of your medic's heal range.
Rollouts:
Going left side for rollouts with soldier seems to both a) take too many rockets and b) take too long. Now I don't know the exact left side rollout, but I went with what I thought was obvious. As for the right side, it seems more convenient to go that way, especially with the brief chance to water jump on your way there.
I'm going to assume these rollouts are fine for demo since they're basically fine for soldier.
Mid Point:
On mid point, around the point itself, I don't see much room for good scout mobility. It's all flat ground around the point. There is the area above mid, but there's only one effective way of getting up there. Technically there are two ways, but one requires pixel landing basically (the barrel on the far left side) with two jumps after, while the other way of doing it, if you rollout on the right side, only takes two jumps and is 100% easier.
Rolling out left side with scout takes a lot longer than right side, and the left side is also the side with the harder jump to above mid. So there's no real point in taking left over right with scout (or soldier). But taking longer to get to mid isn't the problem, it's the lack of usable props around mid that allows scout to use its double jump effectively.
tl;dr almost pointless rolling out left side with soldier or scout. no useful props for scout to use its double jump properly. only area mostly safe for scout, if used right, is above the point. can only reach above the point from the right side unless you want to slow yourself down a good amount by coming from the left side. left side takes too long to get to mid compared to right.
Second Point:
After thinking about this for a little bit, it seems like unless your team has uber, then defending second while the other team is on it is kind of hard. Pocket will need to waste a rocket jumping to the point if not already right by it (which he won't be if he's positioned well enough because the other team is capping it). It's fine for demo for the most part. Medic can't get back up on point without going too far up, which can be dangerous, or going through that tiny hallway, which can also be dangerous if their demo is on the point. Flank can't play by the point because of the whole right side and the many flank possibilities. So really, the edge/cliff needs to be shorter IMO.
Last Point:
I like the last point. Wide open but not too wide open. Multiple entrances/exits.
Extras: On second, you can hide inside of that tree trunk with the banana on it. Prop isn't solid. Also you can shoot stickies from second to one of the spawn doors at the last point.
If you shoot from here - http://i.imgur.com/5gx9IMM.jpg - it will land here - http://i.imgur.com/aXITe7K.jpg
So taking everything into consideration, I feel as if this map has really good potential. I haven't actually play tested it, so I can't so it's definitely a contender for ESEA/ETF2L rotation, but if you fix a few obvious problems up that I mentioned, I can definitely see it being a decent/good map.
[b]Spawn Room:[/b]
Spawn room is pretty good. Only problems are the health cabinets. They're not in terrible spots necessarily, but they're really inconvenient for people who don't get the better spawns. If you don't make your spawn jump correctly, you'll slow yourself down by getting the health (for demos, soldier doesn't matter). This only applies if you plan on purposely jumping out of your medic's heal range.
[b]Rollouts:[/b]
Going left side for rollouts with soldier seems to both a) take too many rockets and b) take too long. Now I don't know the exact left side rollout, but I went with what I thought was obvious. As for the right side, it seems more convenient to go that way, especially with the brief chance to water jump on your way there.
I'm going to assume these rollouts are fine for demo since they're basically fine for soldier.
[b]Mid Point:[/b]
On mid point, around the point itself, I don't see much room for good scout mobility. It's all flat ground around the point. There is the area above mid, but there's only one effective way of getting up there. Technically there are two ways, but one requires pixel landing basically (the barrel on the far left side) with two jumps after, while the other way of doing it, if you rollout on the right side, only takes two jumps and is 100% easier.
Rolling out left side with scout takes a lot longer than right side, and the left side is also the side with the harder jump to above mid. So there's no real point in taking left over right with scout (or soldier). But taking longer to get to mid isn't the problem, it's the lack of usable props around mid that allows scout to use its double jump effectively.
tl;dr almost pointless rolling out left side with soldier or scout. no useful props for scout to use its double jump properly. only area mostly safe for scout, if used right, is above the point. can only reach above the point from the right side unless you want to slow yourself down a good amount by coming from the left side. left side takes too long to get to mid compared to right.
[b]Second Point:[/b]
After thinking about this for a little bit, it seems like unless your team has uber, then defending second while the other team is on it is kind of hard. Pocket will need to waste a rocket jumping to the point if not already right by it (which he won't be if he's positioned well enough because the other team is capping it). It's fine for demo for the most part. Medic can't get back up on point without going too far up, which can be dangerous, or going through that tiny hallway, which can also be dangerous if their demo is on the point. Flank can't play by the point because of the whole right side and the many flank possibilities. So really, the edge/cliff needs to be shorter IMO.
[b]Last Point:[/b]
I like the last point. Wide open but not too wide open. Multiple entrances/exits.
[b]Extras:[/b] On second, you can hide inside of that tree trunk with the banana on it. Prop isn't solid. Also you can shoot stickies from second to one of the spawn doors at the last point.
If you shoot from here - http://i.imgur.com/5gx9IMM.jpg - it will land here - http://i.imgur.com/aXITe7K.jpg
So taking everything into consideration, I feel as if this map has really good potential. I haven't actually play tested it, so I can't so it's definitely a contender for ESEA/ETF2L rotation, but if you fix a few obvious problems up that I mentioned, I can definitely see it being a decent/good map.
Sorry for the delay replying, internet these days is failure
Thank you all ... Their tips and suggestions are undoubtedly very important so that I can improve my map
In a few days I will be doing better and then show it to you all.
I will modify the second point, and also the center point.
Sorry for the delay replying, internet these days is failure
Thank you all ... Their tips and suggestions are undoubtedly very important so that I can improve my map
In a few days I will be doing better and then show it to you all.
I will modify the second point, and also the center point.
i believe that the last point could be done better, what i would do is take out the bridge area and raise the very right side of the point up to meet the 3 stack of boxes there, it would create a need for strategy and thinking instead of playing it just like granary :) my 2 sense.
also i would get rid of that ugly room between last and second. think about what the purpose of that room is, literally just makes the map longer and the rollouts more awckward.
EDIT: nvm i did miss somethign :#
outside of analytical thinking this fucking map looks amazing dude, i can't wait to see textures and i'm definitely gonna try to get a pug or something going on it, well done!
i believe that the last point could be done better, what i would do is take out the bridge area and raise the very right side of the point up to meet the 3 stack of boxes there, it would create a need for strategy and thinking instead of playing it just like granary :) my 2 sense.
also i would get rid of that ugly room between last and second. think about what the purpose of that room is, literally just makes the map longer and the rollouts more awckward.
EDIT: nvm i did miss somethign :#
outside of analytical thinking this fucking map looks amazing dude, i can't wait to see textures and i'm definitely gonna try to get a pug or something going on it, well done!
Ok new screem:
This is the new mid point, if you think that the old is better to say
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05b/2013-01-27_00005.jpg[/img]
The following screen is the second point
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05b/2013-01-27_00008.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05b/2013-01-27_00009.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05b/2013-01-27_00011.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05b/2013-01-27_00013.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05b/2013-01-27_00015.jpg[/img]
This week I will have the bsp.
[b]Thanks everyone, your opinions are of extreme importance[/b]
These new screens are the mid that will be perfect in my opinion
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build01f/Mid-1f2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build01f/Mid-1f1.jpg[/img]
This is the new map for evaluation:
[url]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build01f/cp_wetcoal_build_01f.zip[/url]
Only issue I have is that the resupply is in a bad spot for demo rollouts ._.
Only issue I have is that the resupply is in a bad spot for demo rollouts ._.
MYLESOnly issue I have is that the resupply is in a bad spot for demo rollouts ._.
thanks for your reply :)
You could specify a new location for the cabinets? (plz use screen in game)
[quote=MYLES]Only issue I have is that the resupply is in a bad spot for demo rollouts ._.[/quote]
thanks for your reply :)
You could specify a new location for the cabinets? (plz use screen in game)
Ran around in it for a while and was inspired a few times. Below are my thoughts for some changes, mostly concerning simplicity and "coolness" reasons. Though they probably contradict your vision a lot!
http://i.imgur.com/OHxwkpF.jpg
I think that mid is too wide at the moment, and its partly because of this extra space in the back corners and around the side of middle. Considering all of the entrances from second point to middle are on the opposite side of middle from this corner its also extremely out of the way to clear or even push through. I would suggest pulling the edge of the map up to the green line and the ridge up to the pink line.
http://i.imgur.com/hS1mM8p.jpg
Going along with trying to narrow middle a little, I think that the ridge that is currently along that pink line should be brought a little bit closer to the green line and the point in general. I thought it would look pretty cool if that little part with the plank were more aligned with the point and a bit closer to it. If the mid weren't as wide you could also eliminate some of those wood walls which obstruct a lot of movement.
http://i.imgur.com/5qZj10h.jpg
This bar highlighted in red is a bit obstructive for movement around the point.
http://i.imgur.com/rjstpdR.jpg
These little cracks in the floor can be an annoyance for soldiers.
http://i.imgur.com/0Te7gCi.jpg
I think that there needs to be an easier way to quickly get from the floor up to the raised walkway as show by the green arrow. I'm thinking just a simple ramp or stairway up from the ground to the platform. Furthermore, I think that the inner workings of the whole pictured building are extremely complex. Way too many turns and rooms, making it a nightmare to clear. The bottom floor might not even be necessary. Would really like to see it simplified.
http://i.imgur.com/maLBPkl.jpg
I think the second point is in a bit of an awkward spot at the moment. I can't really see any interesting fights happening on it how it is, tucked away in that corner. I'd like to see it brought out in the open on the edge of this ridge (on the red circle pictured). Maybe with a smaller rock placed at the side of the ridge in the blue square pictured to provide some cover.
http://i.imgur.com/BvqJRm4.jpg
For this flank side, I felt that the two doors were a bit redundant since they both pretty much attach to the same place. I would remove the one on the left in this image and pretty much that whole room it connects to, for sightlines and simplicity's sake. I drew a little mockup of something I thought would be a decent way to adjust the remaining door, basically just pulling it out a bit, widening up the hall leading to it and also getting rid of that little sniper window. The green part is just to show how I think the space should be closed off, so that that back corner no longer exists.
http://i.imgur.com/4xmbBfO.jpg
I also felt that the building between last and second was too complex. There are a few too many rooms and corners in my opinion, which again makes it a nightmare to clear and push through. I felt like two dropdowns was overkill, so I would have the one pictured removed. It pretty much does nothing useful since it just drops you into the same base.
Again I haven't actually playtested the map so I guess my opinions are pretty worthless, but I would like to hear your thoughts too.
Ran around in it for a while and was inspired a few times. Below are my thoughts for some changes, mostly concerning simplicity and "coolness" reasons. Though they probably contradict your vision a lot!
[img]http://i.imgur.com/OHxwkpF.jpg[/img]
I think that mid is too wide at the moment, and its partly because of this extra space in the back corners and around the side of middle. Considering all of the entrances from second point to middle are on the opposite side of middle from this corner its also extremely out of the way to clear or even push through. I would suggest pulling the edge of the map up to the green line and the ridge up to the pink line.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/hS1mM8p.jpg[/img]
Going along with trying to narrow middle a little, I think that the ridge that is currently along that pink line should be brought a little bit closer to the green line and the point in general. I thought it would look pretty cool if that little part with the plank were more aligned with the point and a bit closer to it. If the mid weren't as wide you could also eliminate some of those wood walls which obstruct a lot of movement.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/5qZj10h.jpg[/img]
This bar highlighted in red is a bit obstructive for movement around the point.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/rjstpdR.jpg[/img]
These little cracks in the floor can be an annoyance for soldiers.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/0Te7gCi.jpg[/img]
I think that there needs to be an easier way to quickly get from the floor up to the raised walkway as show by the green arrow. I'm thinking just a simple ramp or stairway up from the ground to the platform. Furthermore, I think that the inner workings of the whole pictured building are extremely complex. Way too many turns and rooms, making it a nightmare to clear. The bottom floor might not even be necessary. Would really like to see it simplified.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/maLBPkl.jpg[/img]
I think the second point is in a bit of an awkward spot at the moment. I can't really see any interesting fights happening on it how it is, tucked away in that corner. I'd like to see it brought out in the open on the edge of this ridge (on the red circle pictured). Maybe with a smaller rock placed at the side of the ridge in the blue square pictured to provide some cover.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/BvqJRm4.jpg[/img]
For this flank side, I felt that the two doors were a bit redundant since they both pretty much attach to the same place. I would remove the one on the left in this image and pretty much that whole room it connects to, for sightlines and simplicity's sake. I drew a little mockup of something I thought would be a decent way to adjust the remaining door, basically just pulling it out a bit, widening up the hall leading to it and also getting rid of that little sniper window. The green part is just to show how I think the space should be closed off, so that that back corner no longer exists.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4xmbBfO.jpg[/img]
I also felt that the building between last and second was too complex. There are a few too many rooms and corners in my opinion, which again makes it a nightmare to clear and push through. I felt like two dropdowns was overkill, so I would have the one pictured removed. It pretty much does nothing useful since it just drops you into the same base.
Again I haven't actually playtested the map so I guess my opinions are pretty worthless, but I would like to hear your thoughts too.
:)
Great tips, I'll definitely use your suggestions to improve the map
In a few days, I will reveal a new version of the map
Thanks b4nny
:)
Great tips, I'll definitely use your suggestions to improve the map
In a few days, I will reveal a new version of the map
Thanks b4nny
New mid looks a lot better!
New mid looks a lot better!
Please get this playtested enough to try putting in the vote for S. 14. This map certainly has potential to be better than metalworks.
Please get this playtested enough to try putting in the vote for S. 14. This map certainly has potential to be better than metalworks.
RogerMastersMYLESOnly issue I have is that the resupply is in a bad spot for demo rollouts ._.
thanks for your reply :)
You could specify a new location for the cabinets? (plz use screen in game)
So I'm starting with the left door.
http://i.imgur.com/Zg2xqS5.jpg
The resupply is in a corner that is awkward, and since you can't strafe in at the start timer, this option might be better.
http://i.imgur.com/eGT7qLj.jpg
Forgot to add this, lol.
The right door is just a bit different
http://i.imgur.com/osPtbum.jpg
There are two options, you could move the resupply.
http://i.imgur.com/XxcHZTJ.jpg
Or you could make the the outlined corner not come out.
http://i.imgur.com/nWEwoQl.jpg
I'm not so sure, I didn't check, so it might not even come out.
The spawns & spawn room could be fixed a bit, it feels a bit cramped, so I'm going to suggest opening it up, making it wider and allowing soldiers to have a bit more room to get out for a fast/escape plan roll out. Might want to get some ESEA-O to ESEA-I + ETF2L Div6 to ETF2L Prem guys to check it out. Make sure it feels comfortable for lower ranked players to play it, and technical enough for high ranked players to get as much potential out of the map as possible =] Good luck mate.
Felt like I should add this. Thank you b4nny for the idea of using shapes and colors to get the point across.
[quote=RogerMasters][quote=MYLES]Only issue I have is that the resupply is in a bad spot for demo rollouts ._.[/quote]
thanks for your reply :)
You could specify a new location for the cabinets? (plz use screen in game)[/quote]
So I'm starting with the left door.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Zg2xqS5.jpg[/img]
The resupply is in a corner that is awkward, and since you can't strafe in at the start timer, this option might be better.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/eGT7qLj.jpg[/img]Forgot to add this, lol.
The right door is just a bit different
[img]http://i.imgur.com/osPtbum.jpg[/img]
There are two options, you could move the resupply.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/XxcHZTJ.jpg[/img]
Or you could make the the outlined corner not come out.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/nWEwoQl.jpg[/img]
I'm not so sure, I didn't check, so it might not even come out.
The spawns & spawn room could be fixed a bit, it feels a bit cramped, so I'm going to suggest opening it up, making it wider and allowing soldiers to have a bit more room to get out for a fast/escape plan roll out. Might want to get some ESEA-O to ESEA-I + ETF2L Div6 to ETF2L Prem guys to check it out. Make sure it feels comfortable for lower ranked players to play it, and technical enough for high ranked players to get as much potential out of the map as possible =] Good luck mate.
Felt like I should add this. Thank you b4nny for the idea of using shapes and colors to get the point across.
The scale and size seem to be pretty good, and not too far from other popular maps like Badlands and Granary. However, the number of flanking routes throughout the map is simply too high. After rolling out to mid as demoman I laid 8 stickies down on potential entrances for the enemy team and I still couldn't cover all of them.
Here's a picture of the entrances to the middle area and the paths that can be taken by the enemy team:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/48151262/cp_wetcoal_current.jpg
Now look at Badlands:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/48151262/cp_badlands_compare.jpg
Notice how the area to concentrate on is much smaller and there are fewer routes.
The scale and size seem to be pretty good, and not too far from other popular maps like Badlands and Granary. However, the number of flanking routes throughout the map is simply too high. After rolling out to mid as demoman I laid 8 stickies down on potential entrances for the enemy team and I still couldn't cover all of them.
Here's a picture of the entrances to the middle area and the paths that can be taken by the enemy team:
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/48151262/cp_wetcoal_current.jpg[/img]
Now look at Badlands:
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/48151262/cp_badlands_compare.jpg[/img]
Notice how the area to concentrate on is much smaller and there are fewer routes.
One thing I forgot to mention, is that the rollout for a demoman felt very long, so you might want to shrink down mid just a wee bit.
One thing I forgot to mention, is that the rollout for a demoman felt very long, so you might want to shrink down mid just a wee bit.
I'm bad at map design but I do know that I like it when there lots of cool little shortcuts and secret tricks on the map so make sure you have lots of those please, especially ones that medics can use to increase their mobility.
I'm bad at map design but I do know that I like it when there lots of cool little shortcuts and secret tricks on the map so make sure you have lots of those please, especially ones that medics can use to increase their mobility.
These modifications were based on tips collected here :)
[i]That room does not exist now, leaving the ladder more functional:[/i]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05F/2013-02-15_00002.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05F/2013-02-15_00004.jpg[/img]
[i]New side entrance, added a door (I believe it is better with this door)[/i]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05F/2013-02-15_00005.jpg[/img]
[i]New ladder safer and isolated from the main door:[/i]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05F/2013-02-15_00010.jpg[/img]
[i]Someone asked for a fourth entry to the last point ... added that this will not be over quickly can give an advantage for all teams[/i]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05F/2013-02-15_00013.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05F/2013-02-15_00016.jpg[/img]
[i]nightwatch ... removed a route of attack[/i]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05F/2013-02-15_00017.jpg[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05F/2013-02-15_00020.jpg[/img]
Thanks everyone, this weekend will provide this version
when i tried this map out in the original version it was esea worthy over maps like metalworks or cp_ashville, with improvements it should be fantastic to play!!
when i tried this map out in the original version it was esea worthy over maps like metalworks or cp_ashville, with improvements it should be fantastic to play!!
Rocketjumping on this map is really fun,(it would be even more fun if I was good at it though) and there are lots of places for sneaky plays, which from my perspective (mostly spectating) makes for exciting games.
Rocketjumping on this map is really fun,(it would be even more fun if I was good at it though) and there are lots of places for sneaky plays, which from my perspective (mostly spectating) makes for exciting games.
Could you provide a download link for the updated version?
Could you provide a download link for the updated version?
[quote=MYLES]Could you provide a download link for the updated version?[/quote]
Ok
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3085802/maps/cp_wetcoal/Build05F/cp_wetcoal_build_05G.zip
I'm really impressed with your latest version, especially the changes to the 2nd point. Before I suggest any radical changes (a few are brewing in my mind) I will make sure to play test the map in a pug. I feel like there is still a bit of excessive complexity to your indoor areas, but I will see how I feel after playing it a bit.
However, I noticed a couple important things that should be pretty quick fixes:
1. The skybox throughout the map is fairly low, you can rocket/sticky jump from several places and hit your head on it. Ruins the possibility of wall jumps and pretty airshots!
2. The metal sheet on the 2nd point doesn't block shots/players.
I'm really impressed with your latest version, especially the changes to the 2nd point. Before I suggest any radical changes (a few are brewing in my mind) I will make sure to play test the map in a pug. I feel like there is still a bit of excessive complexity to your indoor areas, but I will see how I feel after playing it a bit.
However, I noticed a couple important things that should be pretty quick fixes:
1. The skybox throughout the map is fairly low, you can rocket/sticky jump from several places and hit your head on it. Ruins the possibility of wall jumps and pretty airshots!
2. The metal sheet on the 2nd point doesn't block shots/players.
b4nnyI'm really impressed with your latest version, especially the changes to the 2nd point. Before I suggest any radical changes (a few are brewing in my mind) I will make sure to play test the map in a pug. I feel like there is still a bit of excessive complexity to your indoor areas, but I will see how I feel after playing it a bit.
However, I noticed a couple important things that should be pretty quick fixes:
1. The skybox throughout the map is fairly low, you can rocket/sticky jump from several places and hit your head on it. Ruins the possibility of wall jumps and pretty airshots!
2. The metal sheet on the 2nd point doesn't block shots/players.
If you could get Taggerung or someone to stream it I'd appreciate it. If not no worries
[quote=b4nny]I'm really impressed with your latest version, especially the changes to the 2nd point. Before I suggest any radical changes (a few are brewing in my mind) I will make sure to play test the map in a pug. I feel like there is still a bit of excessive complexity to your indoor areas, but I will see how I feel after playing it a bit.
However, I noticed a couple important things that should be pretty quick fixes:
1. The skybox throughout the map is fairly low, you can rocket/sticky jump from several places and hit your head on it. Ruins the possibility of wall jumps and pretty airshots!
2. The metal sheet on the 2nd point doesn't block shots/players.[/quote]
If you could get Taggerung or someone to stream it I'd appreciate it. If not no worries