Obviously not, but spamming stickies was a big part of playing demo. Stickies are incredibly versatile, but are designed primarily for traps.

Don't get me wrong, that was funny as fuck, but why are you making it seem like its just a matter of adapting and dealing with it?

Valve completely changed how the core weapon of one of the core classes of the competitive metagame works, is that not something worthy of getting up in your arms whether you're a demo main or not?

As I said more than 1 time I am really worried of what's to come, all from what I've seen seems to lead to a less exciting and more stale gameplay.

I haven't even mentioned highlander properly but I will just mention the fact that its now virtually impossible to kill a full buffed heavy with the stickylauncher as a demo even after emptying your whole clip and that wrangled sentries take 16 stickies to go down. Ain't that fun? Let's all adapt and rejoice the new meta...

Did you not see the TFTV Twitch Invitational last night? That was some of the most enjoyable TF2 I've watched in a looooong time.

Seriously, this doom and gloom shit is already getting old.

I did not because I was asleep, timezones are a strange thing right? But I did watch the epsilon game and played a few games myself, I'm not just talking out of my ass.

It's not worth getting up in arms about because Valve has historically shown that they care very little for our proposed "meta" in the competitive community, and will do whatever they want. WE have to adapt to the changes they bring to the game, not the other way around. The only two options are to create a "promod" (which others have said will actually kill the game) or quit, which will actually kill the game.

How will it be less exciting and more stale? No longer do teams have to worried about pushing through a choke while a demo single dets 90 damage stickies on their face, forcing them to sit around and either wait for a pick or wait for uber. With this nerf this relies more on the soldiers and scouts to do damage and make plays, and places the demo in a more defensive role, locking down areas like one could argue he's suppose to do. This doesn't mean the demo is useless however. The demo can still support their team with damage from mid range just like he could before, he just can't single-handily shit on a team and will have to rely more on actual teamwork and focus fire to get kills.

I feel bad for demo mains that had their playstyle they had grown to know and love taken away from, but I think overall this change is for the better.

If I'm really honest, in scrims/officials I played since the update, all I notice is that I need to be more alert and precise, I think all of you need to stop focusing on getting the old back, and instead improve your demoman skill, Work on better movement/aim & positioning, AND might Valve ever bring back the old sticky launcher damage, then you're only a lot better right? ;)

My only complaint is that I was most effective waiting for someone to everextend in a push, putting stickies behind them, and then detting for near full damage as they backed up.

Sticky traps were just as useful as they used to be; they would be cleared 90% of the time and the other 10% of the time I got an easy kill or two.

During pushes in I would throw stickies where I thought people would be in 1-2 seconds... this was useful maybe 1/3 of the time.

In other words, to be useful, I played a style that I found really boring.

As a not very skilled demo, I have to think that other newer players might find the same thing, and get turned off to the class or the gamemode.

People need to look at the bigger picture, demoman could now be used as a utility class, which to me is very exciting. I'm looking forward to the new things that could spring up.

I am still sad that I can't be a pocket demo any more.

A promod would only be useful for the upcoming LAN because the few days are not enough to adapt right now

If it's a utility class, what class would you run full time? Sniper (boring wait-for-a-pick-fest), heavy (more viable if it isn't taking so much damage from demos), pyro (no)?

die troll.

How isn't it enough? if everyone has to adapt we will see "prototype" strategies, which is a lot more enjoyable to watch then the same old stuff like the past seasons.

And since everyone has to adapt, there will be no unfair advantages, using the promod would give me a sign that TF2 comp will die very quickly because it would turn into an very small "elite" club of players that use the same old strats instead of a lot newer players with fresh ideas.

If we should do one thing it is probably allow the tide turner.

fuck accidently quoted myself.

you could all just quit for league/dota if this update has upset you that much

daed game lamo

shut the fuck up saber

sry

Pyro will work and I don't think many people realise how viable that class is in 6's.

Demoman in its current state is somewhat useless in pushes unless you hit pipes. He can still be defensive with sticky traps but that will only work if you never want to push.

Badlands last is also useless for the demo, if someone runs to the point and you blow your stickies you can't do shit after that.

This becomes even worse in this new setting where the SR is viable. Your stickies are guaranteed to never be on the point.

best defense is a good offense

i think seagull's idea of unlocking everything (even class limits) makes sense with this change.

Yes multiple demos running around

Haha, see this is what I'm talking about. The sticky launcher used damage ramp up and falloff for 5 seconds, and then became full damage traps. See: http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2253

i would love to see a "day in the life" type of documentary on the tf2 team before they release an update like this. maybe if they made their thought process and rationale 100% transparent (or had open beta testing with welcomed community feedback [not just comp. community]), people would understand what the team was going for.

but to me, it simply looks like they nerfed sticky damage to accompany the base jumper in pubs. i dunno.

Im still trying to picture how is this good in any sense?

What are you gonna run instead? Pyro or heavy? Both are terrible from a spectator POV. Not mentioning that if you run a pyro full time the other team is almost forced to run a pyro as well because their projectile classes will be countered hard. If you run a heavy full time you're gonna have the same problem as with the quickfix, if you run a sniper full time it's gonna be a snooze fest until you get any picks, same as engie and any other class you can think of.

I think the current (pre-nerf) meta is the most balanced and interesting both from a spectator and a player Pov. Its the byproduct of over 7 years of continued playing and experience after all.

Sure if the nerf stays like it is something will have to change, teams will play differently, but I don't see how we can benefit from it in any way. Much less if demo is run as an utility class.

Also, will be lots of fun trying to push any point in HL now. /s

Whether this nerf is for the better or worse, i think by catering towards the pub players (which these changes were clearly aimed for) valves ignorance towards the meta developed by 6s will likely discourage new players from entering the competitive scene. For how could a player be interested in a format where the fundamental mechanics of the major classes are rendered unstable even in its most competitive setting due to conflicts of interest by the developer?
In my opinion, even though adapting to new strategies (whether it be different playstyles, unlocks or even classes) makes the game fresh and unpredictable, competitive players should not be forced to adapt to changes made in the interest of pubs.

I disagree with this because I tend to feel that most new players get into a competitive setting because they want to play with team mates who actually work as a team. This update doesn't really affect the bottom tier of competitive play.

Opening up other classes would be exciting......if those classes are exciting to be put in play.
I may be wrong but...I am not too fond of the game pace with those class as cookie cutter

Everything. All items. Short circuit is a thing.

And the best thing is after nerfing demo and heavy pyro is still strong as fuck and no that hard nerfs have ever happened to him