Yeah so basically Mould and I are making a gravelpit_pro map (next beta will be released) and we're looking for some ideas.
The main complaint about gravelpit is that it's too slow (especially in ETF2L where you're trying to play it with another map) so we're trying to make the map faster. We're doing this mainly through cap/spawn times and making engineers less viable.
Major changes
- Cut the cap time on A & B by half (from 60 to 30 seconds for x1)
- C point still has the same cap time
- Cut the the respawn times for both blue and red (unsure by how much so far as it's confusing)
- Changed the timer style (so instead of starting with 6 minutes and having it increase as you cap points you instead start with 6 minutes and it is unchanged by points capped). This makes it easier to see your time as first attackers
Smaller changes
- Got rid of that spot where medics get themselves stuck
- Removed some of the arches in the tunnels out of blue spawn to remove some sticky trap spots
- Stopped stickies being placed inside doors frames
A
- Moved a small ammo pack to the middle roof on A to make it harder for engineers to place close sentries
- Clipped stairs to fix the explosion bug
- Changed small healthpack in the AC connector to a medium one with an ammo pack (with the intention of making it easier to watch flanks when holding B)
B
- Increased the skybox height on B point
- Added a wall in front of short (between the shed and the wall) to stop medics being picked by snipers [unsure whether this should stay]
- Changed the medium ammopack on B to a small one
C
- Added small invisible wall to stop heavies getting on the roof behind the point
- Increased the trigger size on resupply cabinet in red spawn (so you cant touch it and not get ammo)
Planned Changes
- Fix the panel on B roof not colliding with rockets/bullets
Before you give a suggestion, remember that hiding spots give character to a map and should be removed only if they're very imbalanced
Yeah so basically Mould and I are making a gravelpit_pro map (next beta will be released) and we're looking for some ideas.
The main complaint about gravelpit is that it's too slow (especially in ETF2L where you're trying to play it with another map) so we're trying to make the map faster. We're doing this mainly through cap/spawn times and making engineers less viable.
[b]Major changes[/b]
- Cut the cap time on A & B by half (from 60 to 30 seconds for x1)
- C point still has the same cap time
- Cut the the respawn times for both blue and red (unsure by how much so far as it's confusing)
- Changed the timer style (so instead of starting with 6 minutes and having it increase as you cap points you instead start with 6 minutes and it is unchanged by points capped). This makes it easier to see your time as first attackers
[b]Smaller changes[/b]
- Got rid of that spot where medics get themselves stuck
- Removed some of the arches in the tunnels out of blue spawn to remove some sticky trap spots
- Stopped stickies being placed inside doors frames
[u]A[/u]
- Moved a small ammo pack to the middle roof on A to make it harder for engineers to place close sentries
- Clipped stairs to fix the explosion bug
- Changed small healthpack in the AC connector to a medium one with an ammo pack (with the intention of making it easier to watch flanks when holding B)
[u]B[/u]
- Increased the skybox height on B point
- Added a wall in front of short (between the shed and the wall) to stop medics being picked by snipers [unsure whether this should stay]
- Changed the medium ammopack on B to a small one
[u]C[/u]
- Added small invisible wall to stop heavies getting on the roof behind the point
- Increased the trigger size on resupply cabinet in red spawn (so you cant touch it and not get ammo)
[b]Planned Changes[/b]
- Fix the panel on B roof not colliding with rockets/bullets
[b]Before you give a suggestion, remember that hiding spots give character to a map and should be removed only if they're very imbalanced[/b]
Stupid. Gravelpit is fine as is, l2p.
Stupid. Gravelpit is fine as is, l2p.
i think enough of a meta has evolved around gpit that any "flaws" have been adapted into it
as for the cap times, if thats what etf2l needs to keep it playable in their format, thats another matter entirely.
i think enough of a meta has evolved around gpit that any "flaws" have been adapted into it
as for the cap times, if thats what etf2l needs to keep it playable in their format, thats another matter entirely.
droughtas for the cap times, if thats what etf2l needs to keep it playable in their format, thats another matter entirely.
Yeah it was always more geared towards ETF2L as it was only ever practiced in gravelpit week as it took so long to play with ABBA format.
If it's unnecessary in ESEA I'll stop updating this
[quote=drought]as for the cap times, if thats what etf2l needs to keep it playable in their format, thats another matter entirely.[/quote]
Yeah it was always more geared towards ETF2L as it was only ever practiced in gravelpit week as it took so long to play with ABBA format.
If it's unnecessary in ESEA I'll stop updating this
Slow? It's A/D, one team literally has the clock forcing them to attack at all times and the longest any team will ever wait to make a play is the time it takes to build a charge - usually there are either constant 4-man suicides while building or slow pushes without waiting for charge.
Gpit is one of the most spec-friendly maps with constant action, the major complaint about it is that with no ability for the defenders to repush and with only 2 rounds, 1 single mistake can easily cost a team a match, there's no opportunity to bounce back and regain territory or come back from a round deficit, which is really a complaint about the gametype and not the map. It's just a high-pressure map and i guess stressful if you're playing medic or something.
Maybe euros play it differently? That's the situation over here anyway. Personally I love gpit.
Slow? It's A/D, one team literally has the clock forcing them to attack at all times and the longest any team will ever wait to make a play is the time it takes to build a charge - usually there are either constant 4-man suicides while building or slow pushes without waiting for charge.
Gpit is one of the most spec-friendly maps with constant action, the major complaint about it is that with no ability for the defenders to repush and with only 2 rounds, 1 single mistake can easily cost a team a match, there's no opportunity to bounce back and regain territory or come back from a round deficit, which is really a complaint about the gametype and not the map. It's just a high-pressure map and i guess stressful if you're playing medic or something.
Maybe euros play it differently? That's the situation over here anyway. Personally I love gpit.
Or we adopt the NA system of having games of 2 halves, each of 30 minutes with winlimit 5. And together with that we use the 2 matches a week system and thus keep the Gravelpit games short. Through that we can scrap the stupid turtly windifference 5 system and have playable Gravelpit.
Or we adopt the NA system of having games of 2 halves, each of 30 minutes with winlimit 5. And together with that we use the 2 matches a week system and thus keep the Gravelpit games short. Through that we can scrap the stupid turtly windifference 5 system and have playable Gravelpit.
stark mate, I have to agree with ukm and the rest here, gpit has always been my favorite map to watch and cast, we have had three ESEA finals in a row now with classic gpit matches in them and the map is just fun.
The problem with eu gravelpit has always been in how the rounds/matches are set up, not in the map itself.
Though some of the changes in layout/removing places to get stuck etc is a great idea.
gl though, always willing to try out new changes to see if they are an improvement.
stark mate, I have to agree with ukm and the rest here, gpit has always been my favorite map to watch and cast, we have had three ESEA finals in a row now with classic gpit matches in them and the map is just fun.
The problem with eu gravelpit has always been in how the rounds/matches are set up, not in the map itself.
Though some of the changes in layout/removing places to get stuck etc is a great idea.
gl though, always willing to try out new changes to see if they are an improvement.
- Cut the cap time on A & B by half (from 60 to 30 seconds for x1)
This is pointless in comp.
- Cut the the respawn times for both blue and red (unsure by how much so far as it's confusing)
I don't understand what calls for this.
- Changed the timer style (so instead of starting with 6 minutes and having it increase as you cap points you instead start with 6 minutes and it is unchanged by points capped). This makes it easier to see your time as first attackers
This is generally a good idea but the reasoning makes no sense because it has effects on more than just making it easier to see your time. Why not make it so it only resets the time once you unlock C?
- Got rid of that spot where medics get themselves stuck
Bugfixes are almost always inherently good.
- Removed some of the arches in the tunnels out of blue spawn to remove some sticky trap spots
Sticky traps are bad? I mean I get that these spots are annoying but come on if a demo's banking on using these ones for traps that means that they're giving up on doing something better with their stickies.
- Stopped stickies being placed inside doors frames
Bugfixes are good.
A
- Moved a small ammo pack to the middle roof on A to make it harder for engineers to place close sentries
Which ammo pack? How displaced is it from its old position? What other effects does moving it have on gameplay?
- Clipped stairs to fix the explosion bug
Bugfixes are good.
- Changed small healthpack in the AC connector to a medium one with an ammo pack (with the intention of making it easier to watch flanks when holding B)
This seems reasonable since there are not other health packs near this area. The health was nice for pubs because of the space but in comp the change makes that whole area chip damage hell like it maybe should be.
B
- Increased the skybox height on B point
Bugfixes are good.
- Added a wall in front of short (between the shed and the wall) to stop medics being picked by snipers [unsure whether this should stay]
Let's ignore the fact that most of this map is a single giant huge web of area-wide sightlines and make it easy to hide from snipers while staying in certain chosen spots. Actually, that doesn't seem like such a good idea. Let's keep things the way they are instead because small tweaks to things that are largely made of what the tweaks work against are tacky design.
- Changed the medium ammopack on B to a small one
Why? The only reason I can figure for this is to make minisentries a little less gay but if an engie gets to the point where it would matter then they're already boned anyway, and it has effects on more than just sentries that would probably not get figured out for years.
C
- Increased the trigger size on resupply cabinet in red spawn (so you cant touch it and not get ammo)
Bugfixes are good.
Planned Changes
- Fix the panel on B roof not colliding with rockets/bullets
I don't know about this but bugfixes are usually good.
- Cut the cap time on A & B by half (from 60 to 30 seconds for x1)
This is pointless in comp.
- Cut the the respawn times for both blue and red (unsure by how much so far as it's confusing)
I don't understand what calls for this.
- Changed the timer style (so instead of starting with 6 minutes and having it increase as you cap points you instead start with 6 minutes and it is unchanged by points capped). This makes it easier to see your time as first attackers
This is generally a good idea but the reasoning makes no sense because it has effects on more than just making it easier to see your time. Why not make it so it only resets the time once you unlock C?
- Got rid of that spot where medics get themselves stuck
Bugfixes are almost always inherently good.
- Removed some of the arches in the tunnels out of blue spawn to remove some sticky trap spots
Sticky traps are bad? I mean I get that these spots are annoying but come on if a demo's banking on using these ones for traps that means that they're giving up on doing something better with their stickies.
- Stopped stickies being placed inside doors frames
Bugfixes are good.
A
- Moved a small ammo pack to the middle roof on A to make it harder for engineers to place close sentries
Which ammo pack? How displaced is it from its old position? What other effects does moving it have on gameplay?
- Clipped stairs to fix the explosion bug
Bugfixes are good.
- Changed small healthpack in the AC connector to a medium one with an ammo pack (with the intention of making it easier to watch flanks when holding B)
This seems reasonable since there are not other health packs near this area. The health was nice for pubs because of the space but in comp the change makes that whole area chip damage hell like it maybe should be.
B
- Increased the skybox height on B point
Bugfixes are good.
- Added a wall in front of short (between the shed and the wall) to stop medics being picked by snipers [unsure whether this should stay]
Let's ignore the fact that most of this map is a single giant huge web of area-wide sightlines and make it easy to hide from snipers while staying in certain chosen spots. Actually, that doesn't seem like such a good idea. Let's keep things the way they are instead because small tweaks to things that are largely made of what the tweaks work against are tacky design.
- Changed the medium ammopack on B to a small one
Why? The only reason I can figure for this is to make minisentries a little less gay but if an engie gets to the point where it would matter then they're already boned anyway, and it has effects on more than just sentries that would probably not get figured out for years.
C
- Increased the trigger size on resupply cabinet in red spawn (so you cant touch it and not get ammo)
Bugfixes are good.
Planned Changes
- Fix the panel on B roof not colliding with rockets/bullets
I don't know about this but bugfixes are usually good.
StarkB
- Increased the skybox height on B point
I love you
[quote=Stark]
[u]B[/u]
[b]- Increased the skybox height on B point[/b][/quote]
I love you