I know people don't know these awnsers to these questions because nobody knows what will happen but I see the possibility for an issue in mm.
Essentially my issue is 6v6 and my questions are:
Assuming mm has 6v6 and teams try to be as effective as possible, scout and soldier and medic and demoman will be the most used classes. How will the players who play the other classes enjoy mm? Will they convert to a 6v6 class? Will they offclass all the time? Will they stop playing the game?
And....
If a highlander mm is made:
Will it split the community? Will it lead to two comp tf2 scenes? If tf2 was only 6v6 or only highlander it would be more effective.
I know people don't know these awnsers to these questions because nobody knows what will happen but I see the possibility for an issue in mm.
Essentially my issue is 6v6 and my questions are:
Assuming mm has 6v6 and teams try to be as effective as possible, scout and soldier and medic and demoman will be the most used classes. How will the players who play the other classes enjoy mm? Will they convert to a 6v6 class? Will they offclass all the time? Will they stop playing the game?
And....
If a highlander mm is made:
Will it split the community? Will it lead to two comp tf2 scenes? If tf2 was only 6v6 or only highlander it would be more effective.
it's hard to imagine valve somehow preventing people from playing "the other classes" in mm, so people who are hellbent on playing an offclass will just offclass -- i don't see the problem with this. mm doesn't need to represent the highest level of play
it's hard to imagine valve somehow preventing people from playing "the other classes" in mm, so people who are hellbent on playing an offclass will just offclass -- i don't see the problem with this. mm doesn't need to represent the highest level of play
would it split the community?
i would argue that there is already an existing rift between people that play 6s classes and people that play offclasses and only play highlander.
would it split the community?
i would argue that there is already an existing rift between people that play 6s classes and people that play offclasses and only play highlander.
As far as offclassing in 6v6 goes, in most competitive class based games there are classes that are deemed as more situational. In CS GO you learn to buy certain weapons at certain times. I think if the players are wanting to play a certain class 100% of the time they won't be too interested in competitive play anyway.
As far as offclassing in 6v6 goes, in most competitive class based games there are classes that are deemed as more situational. In CS GO you learn to buy certain weapons at certain times. I think if the players are wanting to play a certain class 100% of the time they won't be too interested in competitive play anyway.
I'm sorry but trying to create a versatile class out of a situational one just because "you want it to be" is not valid. It's not even the players' fault, these classes were created to perform in a 24-man pub environment. Obviously, when you reduce the players, the classes without movement bonuses and reliable DPS are left to be used only when the situation arises.
I read a post on reddit that was actually making me seethe. It was a response to someone who commented about b4nny winning the middle against 3 phlog pyros on his stream, and it said, "We're not ALL b4nny, if you guys argued religion you'd be westboro baptist!" Like, first of all, horrible analogy. But he's essentially arguing that he should forgo improving in the game and have the phlog pyro be balanced around him, I guess? It's insane. INSANE. Improve your aim, map awareness, and overall skills, and then if something still seems awry, argue for a change. A competitive game shouldn't cater to unskilled players who only play pyro in pubs and expect their lackluster class not to be exploited by good players on high skill ceiling classes.
Either Valve changes the classes to make them better, which would take a shit ton of balance that I'm sure not even the pubber pyros want to take the time to test, or they just have to realize they can't make something out of nothing, just because they want it that way.
EDIT: and it should be said this shit exists in dota AND in cs. In CS, there's probably a lot of players who first started with shotguns or negevs. But they either just stopped playing, or they realized if they want to get better, they have to master something with depth and efficacy. It all stems from having a competitive mindset. You want to win? You do what it takes to win. You don't conga-line out of spawn, or expect your engineer to be as useful as a soldier. AND you have to realize, there are still competitive CS players who use a shotgun when the time is right. It's not good enough to be run full-time, but it's good for certain situations, and it's actually VERY akin to a pyro stuffing an uber.
I'm sorry but trying to create a versatile class out of a situational one just because "you want it to be" is not valid. It's not even the players' fault, these classes were created to perform in a 24-man pub environment. Obviously, when you reduce the players, the classes without movement bonuses and reliable DPS are left to be used only when the situation arises.
I read a post on reddit that was actually making me seethe. It was a response to someone who commented about b4nny winning the middle against 3 phlog pyros on his stream, and it said, "We're not ALL b4nny, if you guys argued religion you'd be westboro baptist!" Like, first of all, horrible analogy. But he's essentially arguing that he should forgo improving in the game and have the phlog pyro be balanced around him, I guess? It's insane. INSANE. Improve your aim, map awareness, and overall skills, and [i]then[/i] if something still seems awry, argue for a change. A competitive game shouldn't cater to unskilled players who only play pyro in pubs and expect their lackluster class not to be exploited by good players on high skill ceiling classes.
Either Valve changes the classes to make them better, which would take a [i]shit ton[/i] of balance that I'm sure not even the pubber pyros want to take the time to test, or they just have to realize they can't make something out of nothing, just because they [i]want it that way.[/i]
EDIT: and it should be said this shit exists in dota AND in cs. In CS, there's probably a lot of players who first started with shotguns or negevs. But they either just stopped playing, or they realized if they want to get better, they have to master something with depth and efficacy. It all stems from having a [i]competitive mindset.[/i] You want to win? You do what it takes to win. You don't conga-line out of spawn, or expect your engineer to be as useful as a soldier. AND you have to realize, there are still competitive CS players who use a shotgun when the time is right. It's not good enough to be run full-time, but it's good for certain situations, and it's actually VERY akin to a pyro stuffing an uber.
As far as class limits go, I really think they should make it something like this:
Generalist classes are locked at 2 each,(The below are the classes that I consider are generalist,can be changed)
(Scout,Soldier,Demo,Heavy)
Specialist classes are locked at 1 each (The below are the classes that I consider are specialist,can be changed)
(Pyro,Medic,Sniper,Spy,Engie)
On a side note: I really think pyro might reach the generalist area if his mobility is expanded upon. Like making detonator and scorch shot jumps viable but that would make one weapon the meta(which is boring). Alternatively, a mechanic can added like a Airblast jump that ,when you hold m2 for a while, would fling you forward in a similar fashion to rocket jump. But this is a topic for another day.
As far as class limits go, I really think they should make it something like this:
Generalist classes are locked at 2 each,(The below are the classes that I consider are generalist,can be changed)
(Scout,Soldier,Demo,Heavy)
Specialist classes are locked at 1 each (The below are the classes that I consider are specialist,can be changed)
(Pyro,Medic,Sniper,Spy,Engie)
On a side note: I really think pyro might reach the generalist area [i]if[/i] his mobility is expanded upon. Like making detonator and scorch shot jumps viable but that would make one weapon the meta(which is [b]boring[/b]). Alternatively, a mechanic can added like a Airblast jump that ,when you hold m2 for a while, would fling you forward in a similar fashion to rocket jump. But this is a topic for another day.
ulmyxxAssuming mm has 6v6 and teams try to be as effective as possible, scout and soldier and medic and demoman will be the most used classes. How will the players who play the other classes enjoy mm? Will they convert to a 6v6 class? Will they offclass all the time? Will they stop playing the game?
"liking" a class is something unique to tf2.
if you want to play competitively you do what's useful, you have to be a team player.
and wanting to play "the class you like" is egoistic.
you can play it in a pub, in a lobby or offline.
people who main something like spy, pyro or engineer should realize that they are practically useless 80% of the time,
and if they don't switch classes just because they don't like it, they shouldn't play competitive.
ulmyxx
And....
If a highlander mm is made:
Will it split the community? Will it lead to two comp tf2 scenes? If tf2 was only 6v6 or only highlander it would be more effective.
it's going to be divided to people who want to play competitively, and people who want to play the class they like.
it will not split the community.
won't make it more effective to have only one, but I do feel queuing up for highlander would be frustrating because of the class issue, the number of people who would like to play sniper is remarkably larger than the number of people who would like to medic for example.
so you'll have to not only wait for 18 people to queue up, but also for the same amount of classes to queue.
[quote=ulmyxx]
Assuming mm has 6v6 and teams try to be as effective as possible, scout and soldier and medic and demoman will be the most used classes. How will the players who play the other classes enjoy mm? Will they convert to a 6v6 class? Will they offclass all the time? Will they stop playing the game?
[/quote]
"liking" a class is something unique to tf2.
if you want to play competitively you do what's useful, you have to be a team player.
and wanting to play "the class you like" is egoistic.
you can play it in a pub, in a lobby or offline.
people who main something like spy, pyro or engineer should realize that they are practically useless 80% of the time,
and if they don't switch classes just because they don't like it, they shouldn't play competitive.
[quote=ulmyxx]
And....
If a highlander mm is made:
Will it split the community? Will it lead to two comp tf2 scenes? If tf2 was only 6v6 or only highlander it would be more effective.[/quote]
it's going to be divided to people who want to play competitively, and people who want to play the class they like.
it will not split the community.
won't make it more effective to have only one, but I do feel queuing up for highlander would be frustrating because of the class issue, the number of people who would like to play sniper is remarkably larger than the number of people who would like to medic for example.
so you'll have to not only wait for 18 people to queue up, but also for the same amount of classes to queue.