the problem is the infinite part not the first half. changing 80 minute maps to 70 wont fix it

reducing the winlimit would do a lot more wouldnt it

Budgeting no extra time in case of tech issues or something and budgeting bo3's for 2 hrs in this format is kind of crazy.
Running almost a whole top8 bracket on Sunday is just kinda nuts.
idk

Yeah I was pretty surprised that the pools were full BO3s with the same ruleset. Felt like they could've just run single-map 30 minutes for pools and run playoffs all the way until the end of UBFs on Saturday

if we could play groups on friday and play to top 4 on saturday and finish sunday. that would be 10x better and also all playoff teams to play on stage

two hours for a bo3 is crazy when you already know the average game is 40ish minutes
at that point either team taking a tac on any map or talking about things at all just starts pushing the schedule back

80 minutes is oddly specific, any particular reason for that choice?

Well Then.

Not convinced having a 43 minute round is an issue exclusive to this ruleset. I think that might lead to a bad game in other rulesets too.

Push last with full uber ad challenge. Difficulty: impossible (we suck)

which other ruleset? (hint: it is not physically possible in others)

ETF2L ruleset allows for a a 30 minute round resulting in a 0-0 game followed by another 15 minute golden cap which means you can have a whole 45 minutes without a last point being capped. It was also possible under the old etf2l ruleset with no timelimit on golden caps and in fact did happen. Regardless of how long the round actually is, if teams can't convert a last push the game is going to be awful and I don't think it's an issue with the timer.

From a spectator perspective I think it's much more enjoyable to have a rare occasion where a match goes on for a long time than the alternative. Under a 30 min ruleset, nearly every high stakes game involves one team going up rounds and playing exceptionally safe tf2 (as they have little incentive to convert another round). This generally results in a game where the last 5-10 minutes are pretty much a foregone conclusion, which I find dull both to watch and play.

yeah you could have infinite round time in golden cap and we removed it 5 years ago because it was fucking stupid. we are not talking about whether or not its fun to watch, any ruleset can have shit games obviously, we are talking about how you cannot schedule an event where there is literally no upper bound on how long a match will take. even that dogshit theoretical etf2l game you mentioned is locked to 45 minutes and will not delay a lan and make u get kicked out.

I agree, probably the biggest problem with the ruleset is lan scheduling. I think you just have to budget for games running a long time. If you schedule 30 mins longer than the average series runs (with pauses, technical delays etc budgeted), you'll have a gap between most games and it gives you a buffer if a game does go on for longer than expected. We can talk about theoretically infinite but really long games are an extreme outlier and you might see one per lan (iirc there was a ford gaming map at fullerton 22 that went on for a while too). In practice if you budget enough time this should not be an issue, but 2 hrs is definitely not enough for a bo3, even if each map has a 30 min time limit you can still go over that just with gcs.

Maybe it's just a 4head take or whatever but just schedule more time for games? Are there really that many games going super late? I haven't gotten to watch yet but the games were really fun to play, and I actually personally despise the 30 minute time limit format.

30 minute time limit is actually so much worse than infinite overtime. My biggest issue as far as scheduling was that pools were all bo3 AND that you had to play each team in your pool. This schedule didn’t give my team enough time to eat a proper meal and we had to play for 10 hrs of pools matches plus the first match of playoffs. Keep in mind this outcome is probably the best case scenario for this schedule, as our team didn’t drop any maps in our pool and only had 1 map over 40 minutes

Start the day at 9-10am or something instead of noon and you have a couple extra hours to work with. Unless it's that hard to get gamers out of bed before noon. But really, LAN is an all day event and should be planned like one; not using the morning and not having buffer time for unexpected delays built in means you're asking to run into the wee hours of the night.

raise your hand if your team's third saturday bo3 also absorbed your entire lunch break, meaning you didnt eat dinner until midnight

Ive been to and talked to a lot of staff that run events such as Magfest and other lan events. To not schedule at least two hours of extra time per day is kinda nuts.

9am opening, 10am to start the actual show to give people an hour or so leeway to get in, maybe eat, socialize and exist before going through their bracket.
I know it's not 100% the staff's fault and maybe it was some contract thing, but this is why you need to be open about what to expect with your community and folks attending.

There is no way you guys did infinite overtime ruleset for a whole lan with bo3's in GROUPS and didn't expect to run late at some points. If it only ran 2 hours over on one day then that's actually incredible.

its almost like games dont run nearly as long as every euro whos never played this config insists they do
if localhost actually budgeted the proper amount of time for pauses and getting set up then there would be plenty of time cushion for the one anomaly game that happens every now and again

maybe solution is lasts that are harder to hold or easier to push out of, idk im just a noob

I'm not saying it was the overtime that made it bad, mostly would have been bo3 in groups. Groups of 4 would have 6 guaranteed to 9 potential maps as opposed to bo1 groups of 6 having 5 guaranteed maps.

My main point is moreso that noone accounted for logistical problems and told the organisers that timing was not budgeted properly AND it also didn't go that badly is incredible. There was reasonable potential for people to be playing from noon to midnight without more than a 10 minute break. The infinite overtime is definitely something that coulda caused it, but by no means the only (or even largest) factor.

From my experience the issue was not that the matches were b03, but that the time was budgeted poorly. For the competition aspect, it felt more competitive to be able to pick/ban against each team so you have at least 1 map your team wanted to play. Playing a best of 1 can be frustrating - maybe the other team is just better at the map or they played better. B01 doesn't give the losing team a chance to adjust and make a comeback which is always fun, especially on LAN.

Similarly to last years LAN, I did not feel like there were enough breaks. While staying on the same setup was great, my team barely got any breaks to eat and were playing for the most part from 12 pm- 9/10m with minimal breaks. I was only able to take a break to eat by running out after one of our matches ended and, even coming back to the venue as fast as possible, was still not able to eat the food I had just purchased. At the same time, me running out delayed the start of the next match like 10-20 minutes. It's not realistic for teams to be able to complete a b03 in 1.5-2 hours; There will always be technical issues and other matches running late that delay the start time and end up snowballing to the later matches where teams are now starting 40 minutes late and having to play 2-3 matches in a row without stopping.

I think the suggestion of breaking up the pools into 3 days is probably the best solution. Other games like Smash Bros will run pools on Friday/Saturday and get to top 8 at the end of Saturday night. The only difficultly there is that players are forced to attend the venue earlier and it may make LAN less accessible if people are unable to come in mid day Friday to compete.

i think if we want to continue pushing pace / round turnover and creating a more enjoyable esport to watch and play, we need to start discourse about potentially banning offclasses (mostly sniper, maybe engi)

if they add some form of a clock to overtime I'm getting an engie and a pootis to hold the other team on their last until that clock is run down and we cheese that win. this is a competition not a fucking Honorable match, and if you think that's lame then your right to think that. the rule set is fine, League of legends and csgo matches go real long too. A lot of times those close ass dragged out matches are really satisfying to win and a relief if you lose. I think that focusing on scheduling and blocking out more time for each match is a much better approach. I personally think that playoffs bo3 in rgl should either start at 9:30 or 10 est instead of 10:30 or 11. there are so many studies showing that sleep deprivation gives you aids and brain damage and makes you gay so really we should be moving matches to times that won't go until 2am if its a slobberknocker