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#39 The Future of RGL HL in TF2 General Discussion

Hi all, the HL staff got together and talked about the responses left so far. We wanted to thank you for your feedback, and remind those who want to comment in a less public setting that the survey has an open response portion at the end. That survey won't open for a little bit, but something to keep in mind.

Chhaam... is there really no clear vision from the people in leadership roles who have been in positions of power for years?

Turnover and lack of interest are both major parts to this. Ideally, we would be able to afford putting 1-2 people per division as needed, with HA being responsible for seeing that the tasks delegated are being performed adequately and according to the overall mission. With the turnover/interest issue, this responsibility has shifted with more of the formerly delegated tasks flowing up towards HAs. I hate the super corporate lingo of "vision", but the staff at the HA level do all agree with each other on what needs to be done in order for the league to function and improve. The focus right now is more on the function part for HL, though, since HAs are handling some of the tasks that are slipping through due to the staffing issue. The reasoning for the issue gets explained further down in my response to Kat's post.

NoNoeWayI think RGL should start utilizing their own Discord and TFTV more if that's the case. While a stream is better professionally, it's not necessary for the size of our community for mass engagement. Answer questions publicly and then they spread.

We want to do all of the above! The main hold back we have on doing more on discord/TFTV is a mix of ping-fatigue and audience. With discord, it's fairly easy for us to implement since HL has historically revolved around discord. TFTV is a new thing for us, since there's a pretty established audience of mostly 6s players, and in the past we've been told that TFTV doesn't care much for HL, let alone NA HL. Disregarding that, we agree that it's a good, public platform for players and staff to converse and get a good understanding of what's going on, coming up, or other questions that need answering.

PTSunnyyYour low number of volunteers comes from lack of faith in leadership. Nobody wants to volunteer under the current head of HL, sorry to be so blunt, but myself along many others refuse to work under Jercer. Not only that but RGL in the past has black listed players from admin team for personal reasons, that has been confirmed by ex-admins (and current ones).

I understand not liking someone based on personal experiences with them, or seeing an action that you don't agree with and vocalizing that. I do want to contextualize, though, that HA's are not the micromanager types and aren't hovering over the shoulders of the regular division staff. Under the 5 different HA's I've worked under at this point, I can confidently say that my interaction with them was minimal. Not to say they didn't check in, make sure things were going okay, asking for opinions/help, but they weren't always in my DMs asking about why a decision was made, why I did something the way I did, etc. I understand that Jercer gets a bad rep for decisions made, but a lot of the time those decisions weren't even made by her. They were made by other staff, and communicated by her so that the admin making the decision doesn't take the hit. Both Jercer and consta are/were very adamant about making sure that the division staff are able to make decisions for themselves, especially since HAs aren't able to keep up with every division's details at any point in time.

As for the "staff blacklist" that players talk about - though it does technically exist, it's a lot smaller than people think. We have recruitment standards that we uphold, one of them being having a clean discipline history in terms of interactions with other players. It's hard to put trust in someone who themselves cannot overcome their personal urge to type slurs at someone else, especially in the relatively short time frame RGL has existed. Otherwise, there's a very select few who are not allowed to return to staff due to their actions while on staff or shortly after leaving staff. They have nothing in their discipline history about these actions, but if someone has done something that would warrant removal, we generally don't let them return.

Katryna... In essence, why is it that RGL is not a league people want to stand behind?

These are great introspective questions that we went over in a meeting with HL staff. I think a lot of these boiled down to most information being passed down experientially, and not having enough time to learn when being new.

When I started on staff (summer of 2020ish) under Klowwd, a lot of what I learned was from how they handled tickets. Aside from that, I had to learn the entire website interface (scheduling, team placements, etc) myself because those weren't really taught to me outside of a super brief rundown. That's not to throw the blame onto Klowwd (or William Automatic, HA at the time), but the system I learned through was okay because there were so many people around that were able to help. Now that the staff has thinned out, that help isn't there, and that puts new staff in a spot where they have nothing to push off from. I've been put in this position to fix that issue, and have documentation tasks so that new staff (and old staff) are able to have something of a quick reference of anything they need. Having a place to easily look back at decisions from the past, their outcomes, and their contexts is something that we need in order to fix the issue of inconsistent decisions.

As for the sandbagging and clarity issues you've brought forward, I believe both will also be helped with that documentation. Having a reference of what players need to know at what time, as well as an easy to access record of previous decisions made on team skill levels will alleviate that pinch point to a degree. It won't solve the issue by itself, and it won't be an instant fix, but it's something that will be useful to have for admins to keep ourselves consistent.

posted 1 week ago
#17 The Future of RGL HL in TF2 General Discussion

TL;DR: Arcadia's the one with the checkbook, no one else. Options for live feedback from players. How do we prevent teams from blowing up? Why keep monetizing HL?

There were some extra questions posed and brought up as well. A large quantity of them involving costs/money which I can answer upfront with:

I don't know RGLs financials at all. The staff does not touch money outside of occasionally asking for a PayPal email. All of the money goes thru Arcadia, not anyone else. edit: Also, RGL is not a non-profit. RGL is not a registered 501c organization, nor have we ever been. There was a joke for a while that RGL was so broke that we were a non-profit, but we never were registered as one.

As for other questions:

RGL Discord UserWould it not be possible to discuss survey results/future plans with the moderation team on a scheduled stream? ... Link to full text

This is a great suggestion, and something we may be able to work towards in the future. The main stopping point here is availability between our camera operator/twitch channel operator/sea life specialist and our admin staff. I'm sure we could find some time in there to discuss those results live with players, and I agree that a "Socratic seminar" style discussion would generate some better outcomes for the league as a whole. I'll see what I can do with DolphiN and the other HA's about this.

RGL Discord UserSo things were rushed preseason and poorly affected several teams, and RGL went ahead with it anyway? What will be done to prevent this in the future? ... Link to full text

Things were going pretty well until the last week of preseason, at least from my personal point of view. Xenagos (Invite Staff) is very involved in player contact, and was able to catch wind of this pretty fast thankfully. That didn't stop other issues from coming in and blowing everything up anyways, though. This caused us to rush out answers and pull resources together to get everything ready, which coincided with staff being out (I was out of town for the weekend, giant snowstorm caused issues as well).

There's a lot we could do here, and we're weighing the options out. If we lengthen the time between roster creation cutoff and season start, teams get antsy and die. If we hand out punishments/discouragements from team deaths, that just makes it riskier for the players and means less teams in general. We'd love to hear other options that the community has on this, as there's more out there that myself and the other staff may not be aware of.

RGL Discord Useryeah maybe if we didnt make people pay money to play more people would play ... Link to quote

This is a common opinion quoted at RGL, but I disagree with it somewhat. I agree that having free divisions brings in more players, but removing all monetization from HL isn't really a great option and I would argue worse than having paid divisions. The highest levels of play need that monetary incentive to keep things remotely competitive, and if you think they don't, go re-watch HL S4 S5 grands. (Thank you spring rolls for the correction)

There were a lot more quotes, but these points stuck out the hardest amongst the ones I was able to answer.

2/?

posted 1 week ago
#16 The Future of RGL HL in TF2 General Discussion

TL;DR: HL things. Staff responses to bad start to season, RC case that took too long, and reasons that rulings can be inconsistent.

Hello. I'd like to address a few things from the discussion you posted both here and in our discord. I'll be breaking down a lot of this, it'll likely be a few posts. I'll also be addressing a few key points I read throughout the conversation from the discord, or reaffirming points made by other RGL Staff. Sorry in advanced if the formatting isn't the best, I typically do not post here.

katryna...
I have spent the last week surveying players on their thoughts on RGL. Of all of the issues on players’ minds, these are the most common:
  • 1. Declining amount of players, especially in the mid-level divisions like main and amateur (and IM and adv-2, had they existed this season) due to promoting sandbagging and last-minute team placements.
  • 2. Moderation problems, exhibited by the reluctance to enforce rules with sufficient evidence in a timely manner, and near infinite unbans for behaviors that are against RGL’s spirit of sportsmanship.
  • 3. Chaotic scheduling, placement, and match decision-making. This leads players to feel that their seasons are dependent on other teams’ deaths or the whims of administration, rather than their own competitive capability.
...

The post was followed by individuals reaffirming their concerns on these points who have been vocal in the past about their concerns with RGL's direction.

Point 1 was about the team count decline, and how the HL staff's promotion of sandbagging and last-minute team placement is the main contributing factor.

When we last had a discussion about this, I noted that this season and last season have been particularly rough for player numbers. I also spoke about how our staff turnover has exacerbated this issue, with both Pibble (Adv staff + Discord Staff) and DusterDan (Main + AM Staff) having to pull double duty just to get things done. I think they've both done an incredible job given their circumstances, and should anyone like to join and help, you are welcome to apply here.

While I understand the frustration of losing IM, if we had continued with having Intermediate and having the same team count we have now, the middle 3 divisions (AM - Main) would have so few teams per division that running a playoffs bracket with competitive integrity would get difficult. The absolute minimum we try to run with is 6 teams per division, with 8 teams being the preferred smallest division. This is to account for a competitive playoffs and 1 or 2 teams dying.

Alongside this, there were many that mentioned not liking having to pay to play above AM at this point. While this is standard in 6s land, HL is used to only paying at the very top. There's a lot of internal discussion about that now, and there will be even more in the future especially once survey results come in around playoffs time. I can't promise anything here, I don't have the bank account information, but we'll work with what we have and see if we can bring back a higher skill free option for players.

As for "promoting sandbagging", I 100% disagree. Every pre-season without fail there are a minimum of 10 tickets opened asking about player restrictions, discussions on current restrictions, and questioning restriction decisions from the past to see if they still hold up. We actively encourage players to open a format ticket and write to us about your team's restrictions because it helps us make the division more competitive.

Point 2 was about moderation problems, mostly related to the recent case involving Thicc's ban taking much too long to be processed.

This was also discussed publicly, and agreed that this case took too long. I cannot share details about the report, but know we spent roughly 3 months on this case alone, which is entirely unacceptable. This case had the misfortune of being very public making it much more difficult for the Report Committee (RC), on top of multiple RC members leaving staff entirely, 2 large national holidays, and a season wrap up to boot. These issues do not in any way excuse the amount of time spent on this case. They are the circumstances we were dealt, and are circumstances we need to be prepared to deal with to ensure every RGL RC case can be dealt with quickly and discreetly. We're actively working on the quickly part, with new RC members being brought on soon, but we need the community to work with us a little on the discreetly part.

We want those who make a report to feel like they don't have to worry about an entire community reading their diary, and as soon as a report hits RC, we do not discuss that information with anyone. There have been incidents in the past, and those users involved with that user have been removed from staff and barred from returning for over 2 years now.

Point 3 is about inconsistent decision making.

RGL runs off a revolving door of volunteers. If I had to wager a guess, most staff members across both formats stick around for maybe 2-3 seasons on average, with new staff being brought in nearly constantly (hah) season to season. This means that we need to be constantly teaching people the way to deal with situations, especially across divisions and formats. This point will likely turn into an action item for me, and I can certainly put something together to help onboard staff, but the effects of that won't be seen for a while.

1/?

posted 1 week ago
#10 when will rgl release the backlog of medals in TF2 General Discussion

we just dropped a timeline for this

(image for those who arent in the discord)

TL;DR
S12 & S13 will go out early January 2025
S14 & S15 will go out Spring 2025 (Valve dependent)
S16 will go out Summer 2025 (Valve dependent)

posted about a year ago
#17 RGL Sucks in TF2 General Discussion

coming to tftv to complain about HL pugs of all things is one of the decisions of all time

posted about 3 years ago
#14 queen dead in Off Topic

- snip

posted about 3 years ago
#2 TF2 update for 7/7/22 in TF2 General Discussion
- Fixed the Iron Bomber's projectile collision size not matching other projectile collision sizes

oh. oh my.

posted about 3 years ago