the301stspartan's Profile

the301stspartan

Account Details
SteamID64	76561198037467133
SteamID3	[U:1:77201405]
SteamID32	STEAM_0:1:38600702
Country	Germany
Signed Up	April 14, 2013
Last Posted	September 29, 2018 at 5:46 AM
Posts	2393 (0.5 per day)

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#303 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

w4ttIn my opinion, considering the op information, Valve just discovred the 18 players semipub (slightly modified). Teams will most likely be stacked and Valve "COMP" servers will most likely be available by buying tickets from the store. Most of the people who already play comp will keep using the current options. If Valve would want to improve the TF2 comp they should just offer a couple of better servers to the current competitive scene.

I think you have no idea of comp, valve, tf2 or servers.

posted about 12 years ago

#61 Highlander pick/ban system in TF2 General Discussion

skynetsatellite013I don't think posting ban / whitelist suggestions on specific items in this thread is useful. The purpose is to come up with a system that Valve can use to gather data for themselves. If Valve wanted the community to come up with a whitelist / blacklist for them that is a different topic.

Here are some of my thoughts.

First issues is logistics. There are over 100 weapons in the game, and a handful of set bonuses. We need a system that can cover all of the items while also not spending 5 minutes trying to set up the item list for a 15 minute match.

Second issues is troll / outlier protection. I think a majority voting system is better than any system where any one player has ban or veto power over any one item.

With these concerns in mind, here's my idea.

Each player should have his/her pick/ban list, which he/she decides offline. This makes sense because most users aren't going to change their mind for every new match, so there's no need to have the user repeat his/her choices for every single match. This saves time as well and lets matches get started faster. TF2 would need a separate menu / interface with the list of items that one can vote on, and you would go through the entire thing and select pick or ban for each. This list gets saved in your own TF2 account profile. A reasonable default setting can be debated on to be provided to people who are too lazy to go through this step and don't really want to vote.

Once a player joins a match lobby, his pick/ban list is automatically added to the pool. Once the match is ready to start, the server simply adds up everyone's pick/ban list and treats everyone as having 1 vote per item. Any item that has more bans than picks is banned, and the remainder are allowed. The final aggregated pick/ban list is displayed to every player before the match begins.

This is pretty much the perfect system, except we have to avoid 1/1 votes with 18 players. Maybe valve could collext the global data of ban/pick lists and based on that, if there is a stalemate situation, let the weapon in question be banned if it is globally banned in more than 50% of the lists.

EDIT: Ninja'd, I think both a revote and what I suggested are reasonable ways to prevent stalemates.

posted about 12 years ago

#58 Highlander pick/ban system in TF2 General Discussion

MuukiBan gunboats every game, make soldiers cry \:D/

edit: TF2 isn't a moba, this pick/ban system will make Highlander pretty stupid since some weapons for some classes change the way it is played in such a high way for example Gunboats, Gunslinger, Wrangler, Kritz, Spy watches, all Pyro unlocks that are used etc. In Dota where you ban/pick heroes, the heroes don't have different skills depending on what you pick for them so I really don't see this system making 9v9 an appealing gamemode.

Edit 2: Changing the fundamentals of highlander gameplay, say for example Wrangler and Degreaser, just by how some pubbers/iron players/div6 or whatever your choice of elitism is wouldn't really make 9v9 develop as a gamemode. Teams are barely figuring out the metagame when it isn't changing (at least in EU), so changing the game every single time you play it would just make it even more chaotic and random especially in lower levels, since they barely have idea how to play with the current rules.

If you would go by the excuse of "In Dota they have all these different hero combos and picks and bans etc...", you have to think about the fact that in Dota, you have HUGE prize pools to fight for, you want to learn the meta because there is a lot of money involved. In TF2, especially in highlander, you have pretty much no prize pool apart from virtual items in NA, and you have like 500€ divided by 9 if you win one of the two seasons per year in EU. Also the pub play is much closer to what competitive is like, unlike in TF2 where pub is just a huge mess of broken unlocks and no class limits.

Sure the ingame lobby system is insanely cool and I hope it will bring players to the scene, but if they go and change the metagame by what is banned and picked there, then I really don't know if I personally will keep playing this game. Why fix something that isn't really all that broken?

also 6v6 support thanks

Wtf are you even talking about. Nothing. Changes. For you.

posted about 12 years ago

#171 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

BLoodSireSo my cynical self see's this as really just a nice implementation of HL on the front page. That should bring in some curious players. It will doubtfully do anything for 6v6 other than trickle up players who end up liking a competitive format.

But that is great and the whole point of the entire thing!

posted about 12 years ago

#152 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

enigmathere is a very fundamental problem with highlander that I don't think the valve team has acknowledged:

it requires 18 players.

it's going to be a logistical nightmare to organize that many people in an automated matchmaking setting on top of the strict highlander constraints (1 of each class).

Why? New button in main menu -> Play a highlander match!
-click button
-pick class
-get put into lobby with most players in where your class doesn't exist already
-option to manually start a lobby

I don't see a big problem here.

posted about 12 years ago

#139 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

marioHere's the best template we have for unlocks: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Competitive_item_restrictions

For example you can ban all weapons banned by "UGC Highlander Season 10," while allowing all weapons in "ESEA 6v6 Season 13." All other weapons can then be considered unlocks. At the beginning of each round let each player ban 1 "unlock" weapon. After all 9/6 players have chosen what weapons to ban, each players will then choose 1 "unlock" to allow.

If someone has a better idea please post it.

The problem with this is that players from opposing teams can vote "against" each other, resulting in stalemates. This is even likely to happen considering that there's 9 classes, each having some very good unlocks that may be nominated both for approval and for bans. Also Sal said that most likely, Valve will not want to use a predefined ban list.

That is why I came up with this idea:

How about this: The host can "suggest" a number of weapons for vote and the teams can vote y/n. Since there are 9 players in each team, we simply exclude the host from the voting and there will always be a definite conclusion and players who don't like it will deal with it because democracy has spoken. Weapons that are not included in the vote are automatically in the game.

I imagine a list of weapons to be displayed for all 17 players with a cross and a checkmark and players just have to click it. It's as easy as it gets!

posted about 12 years ago

#131 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

droughtlet's assume the players in these lobbies are trying to be competitive with each other. banning weapons means you ban the most powerful unlocks, right? obvious choices like the pomson, wrangler, huo long heater, phlog and bazooka go immediately, but what's next is things like the degreaser, the basher, and the gunboats. these are powerful unlocks, but not overly powerful; they contribute to the overall balance of the game, as the community has found.

this obviously doesn't give any insight onto which weapons need to be fixed; it just gives insights onto the best weapons. plus, it makes playing less fun (who the fuck wants to play highlander pyro without the degreaser)

People will not ban powerful unlocks. People will ban unlocks that they feel uncomfortable playing with or playing against. Nevertheless, I also believe that there should be a selection of weapons that cannot be banned. This correlates with the voting system that I suggested before.

posted about 12 years ago

#127 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

InzilSo basically, each team will ban a set number of weapons each match, and over a few months valve will collect enough data to nerf or buff certain weapons. There seem to be two main ways of deciding weapon bans: having the host decide, or letting the players vote. Unfortunately, both of these possibilities will most likely lead to arguments among some players. Those who are skilled with and utilize the 'OP' weapons, and those who find them annoying. Just look at the numerous reddit threads on mini sentries - the community is divided by like %50. Players will join up expecting to be able to play jarate sniper, only to troll/rage because their only 'fun' loadout is banned.

TL; DR, until there is a set ban list in place, it'll be just an angry pub.

I imagine a list of weapons to be displayed for all 17 players with a cross and a checkmark and players just have to click it. It's as easy as it gets!

posted about 12 years ago

#125 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

trogThey want a system that doesn't require a white list so they don't have to update it. Don't ask me why.

What's difficult about this is trying to make a system that would work at all levels of play; from disorganized lobbies to league matches. In a lobby there's no team leader to make the picks/bans, so the system should probably have some sort of vote e.g. for each ban everyone picks a weapon and the weapon with the most votes is the team's ban.

Another thing is whether to do picks or bans (or both). Bans would be closer to the current whitelist, but it doesn't really make a weapon meta since there's still so much choice. Picks makes more of an impacts, but is that a good thing? Also I'm assuming stock is allowed by default and picks mean both teams can use the weapon.

By whitelists I am talking about unbannable weapons. Aka all stock weapons plus unlocks that the community has deemed best by test.
Global bans for the worst weapons known to man and all the other unlocks in question are up to the players.
However, it looks like valve is going for a completely community-voted ban system. I am okay with that, it will just make the early lobbies chaotic until valve actually has enough feedback and data to do what needs to be done and rebalance.

posted about 12 years ago

#122 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

J6_SteveSalamancer#111 That is definitely something to suggest. But by "playtesting" what I mean right now is, get some HL pugs running and just work through a pick/ban round with captains. Start tonight. Valve aren't going to send us the code for a dozen different systems, we simply have to field our own rules and refine them.
But how seriously will valve take a bunch of puggers who said this weapon is op and that weapon needs a buff if they have no proof to back it up ?

They will take us seriously. We are the only source of information they have.

posted about 12 years ago

#120 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

Well most PUG servers are running comp whitelists by default, some pickup admins should try to work out a pick/ban system. I'm not informed if pug.na has something like it in place, but I assume not? It's definetely easier for us as a community to implement it to our PUGs for testing than for valve to put it into the game so it owuld be cool if someone who runs a pickup could get on it.

posted about 12 years ago

#113 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

+1 on that^

posted about 12 years ago

#111 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

Salamancer#103 Just about, yeah. The biggest thing they need from us is knowing where to start. If we can playtest a dozen different ways to implement a pick/ban system and provide detailed after-action reports to them, that will be a huge step.

I'm totally up to playtest the fuck out of it. Maybe we can see an early implementation on Team Fortress 2 Beta? Has Robin said anything about that?

posted about 12 years ago

#103 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

SalamancerA banlist just isn't the direction they want to take. They'd rather be able to rebalance weapons than just have some that are perma-banned. The UGC banlist is definitely a great place for them to start looking at rebalancing, I agree. Nonetheless, their idea is to make the competitive space more dynamic than it currently is because of their update schedule.

Hoping we can start hearing about some pick/ban PUG results in the next few days. If everyone comes back and says "hey we tried it this way and it sucked," that feedback is just as valuable to Valve as "we tried it this way and it rocked." The key point I'm trying to make is, less talky, more doey.

Let me understand this better. Are they okay with banning a small selection of weapons à la Pomson right away, so my suggestion from before is feasible? Or do they want to leave it completely up to the lobby creators to allow everything if they want? In that case, what role do we play before the system is added for testing? Should we suggest weapons that are unbannable instead?

posted about 12 years ago

#97 How to Get to In-Game Comp Lobbies in TF2 General Discussion

SalamancerThe competitive community's ideas are very important. One thing they stressed was that they didn't want to implement a pick/ban mode into their lobby system if all the official leagues like UGC and ETF2L used a different system than what was implemented. They want there to be one source of truth, and they want it to reflect what works best for us.

This kind of supports what I suggested before.

-Have the current UGC or CEVO whitelist be always allowed
-Let the competitive community decide about a few global must-bans
-Leave other unlocks up to the lobbiey creator

I believe this would support the pub community in finding their own unlocks and creating new strats on one hand and have appropriate games from the get go without having to worry about unlock picking on the other hand.

posted about 12 years ago

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