https://i.imgur.com/ADCFVpd.png

odd, its the exact opposite for me

a small counter-argument to the "arrows take skill" argument:
Arrows lower the skill ceiling of all classes except medic
without arrows you get actually punished for dumb bombs or eating a random pipe or eating spam in general

you can either:
A) Actually dodge and play normally, therefore making it pretty much 100% luck that your med hits arrows on you from medium-long range
B) Simplify your own movement because it doesnt actually matter that you take a 40dmg rocket to the face when you get guaranteed arrows from the clutchbow
Basically the only situations where crossbow takes skill is when you are up in the air jumpin and airstrafing and shit and he hits that epic bow that saves your life. The rest of the time its 50-50 prediction and luck... or just people simplifying their movement to straight lines to get arrowed wich is even more gay AND IM NOT CALLING OUT ANYONE because of course i do this too, because the crossbow is just too good not to use it. It would be dumb to actually want to get punished when theres a "Get out of Jail free" card that is the crossbow and you can just be more retarded than usual and get out of a bad situation for free with arrows

just because you dont like my opinion doesnt mean it should be censored and deleted !!

its pointless to talk about rebalancing because thats not in our hands, its valve's thing. Unless leagues decide to use a weapon stat mod, the only way to balance items is to outright ban the OP ones.

fair point but its different... without crossbow people usually just commit more to fights and bait less, and of course people wouldnt run for medkits as often as they ask for arrows in a match with crossbow
i think the lack of crossbow would encourage to not eat spam so much in lower level play too and therefore waste the less of the medic's time, besides making crit heals more important again instead of just something relevant for overheals.

if there was a cup like that it would be better with modern rulesets and map, to actually test it out with no other variables involved

the base classes and stock weapons have been changed so much that a "retro" cup would be nothing like old TF2 anyway. medigun speed and all.

i just realized i sounded quite pretentious in my post sorry
i played since 2 years earlier than that and crossbow wasnt 100% meta at all even in 2013 since it didnt receive all the buffs that it has today. before the "Build uber" thing it was still preferable to use medigun in most situations and it would actually feel special to use the crossbow

i mean crossbow was really good from the get-go, its obvious that something like quick-fix gets banned for its 140% healing rate but crossbow somehow doesn't. i could easily see an alternative timeline where crossbow is the weapon thats banned and all medics use quickfix. "well its not balanced but it makes medic more fun! airstrafing with your soldier takes skill, why would you want to make medic less fun??"

thats not the point at all tho
i just want the matches to be less fucking gay and awkward
just do a test in any 6s match and convince both medics to go needles. midfights resolve way more organically, theres no one standing still like a retard or breaking away from the fight for no reason. its just better gameplay in general imo.

reminds me of the serious competitive L4D players that kick you out of a PUBLIC versus server when you dont know the meta or w/e

You are only seeing your team side, as if the other team kept arrows and you didn't.
The enemy would die more easily, you could call damage and it would actually matter, and saying that an enemy is weak would mean your team picks him off in the next few seconds instead of seeing him back to full health.

huh?
you probably didnt play before arrows, people didnt use to stop fighting and stand behind some shack to get beamed lmao
i mean thats one of the main things why clutchbow breaks gameflow, do you really think people used to break out from fights and ask their medic to beam them for 5 seconds? they just kept fighting or went for a pack
also you could just switch around the argument you make
Ah yes, the blazing fast gameplay of having done 600 spam damage during a midfight for it to mean literally nothing

if people take longer to kill it slows down gameplay, thats my point.

I feel like there might be a cognitive bias, because of course you may only realize the times YOU gets arrowed or got saved from a situation by arrows, but not the times the same happened to the enemy during your match, as its impossible to track every single arrow the enemy does. You do something stupid, you get arrowed and saved, dopamine rush, lets do stupid plays again! wow crossbow is great! But you may not realize that time you did 300dmg to a soldier getting healed and a second after he was jumping at your combo at full health again, or other many such cases like that.

We ban the quickfix because the heal rate is higher than stock medic, but crossbow is allowed because ¿¿??
We ban rescue ranger because you can safely repair stuff from the spawndoor, but crossbow is allowed because ¿¿??
And yes, theres thousands of examples that you can pinpoint during matches where crossbow clearly slows the game down

as i said, you can't only look at it from the medic's POV, its a team thing. if you had the quickfix allowed people would be harder to kill and teamfights would be more frustrating and less fun as you'd be forced to focus fire on specific targets. i mean quickfix is completelly out of the question for this reason, for its healing, but somehow crossbow can't be challenged even tho its above stock healing rate, it has practically infinite range, and it has changed the way people play (for worse imo)

Brother, you have become accostumed to a vice, but theres another side to this coin... The enemy also has this rotten vice on their hands. And once they are removed from it, they will also be easier to kill. Its not about your team losing crossbow, its about the whole existance of crossbow being removed from your match
You'd be surprised how natural and direct teamfights feel once the crossbow is no longer there. At least give it a try.
Your damage would matter a whole lot more too.

as i said in my post, increasing the healing potential of medic by design slows the game down, regardless of if you stand still or not

• Eliminates weapon variety: Its so good that all the other primaries are considered "trolling"
  
• Stand-still meta: Nothing says "fast gameplay" like seeing half your team standing for arrows in the middle of a fight.
  
• Viewlock: While medigun lets you look around while healing, crossbow forces you to place your crosshair at your teammate and lose situational awareness, wich might stop you from seeing a soldier jumping you or some scout flanking for you.
  
• Gameflow: This isnt related to medic specifically but to the entire team. Even if they dont stand still for arrows, the midfights and teamfights in general will get drawn out longer than usual due to the crossbow insta +100HP. "Demo is wea- oh nevermind arrows exist" This forces to play using damage bursts, as leaving someone weak doesnt really mean anything anymore. "Bow me doc" and instantly back to full health, woah nice skill you didnt dodge your med's arrow.
  
• Fun? Thats subjective, and let me tell you buddy, i dont find this stagnant clutchbow meta fun. Back when it didnt build uber and nobody stood still for arrows it was more fresh and fun to use but now that you're expected to pull it out every 4 seconds its nowhere near as fun.

One might think "but it heals so much faster so it makes for faster gameplay", but its actually the opposite. Everyone lives longer, everyone takes more damage to kill, and worst of all, people hide away or stand still during fights to get their sorry ass back to full health.

From a wider perspective, even if some medics say its fun, it also sucks out the fun for the rest of the players by just making fights more frustrating and drawn-out that they should due to its huge healing cappabilities. Its basically rescue ranger for medic after all

So its not really about the crossbow being OP compared to other medic weapons, wich it obviously is, but its more about how it harms game flow in general.

it was just uploaded a few days ago, maybe recovered from some archives
sorry if i posted it in the wrong forum

https://youtu.be/OluETnUYJQA

nuze, dolly, seeds, five...

mod that makes scout use heavy's model so his hitbox is bigger

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/i/748a1849-ecaf-4c98-86f5-92bde89fa86a/daxb2gc-0033a1d5-b810-4acd-9d20-8bd3a44ce6b0.jpg

nice taste
my list:

math rock is my favourite thing that i discovered lately