I want to make sure you realize you're telling a member of Watch This that his team is going to be in CEVO next season. Dummy is glad you made the decision for him.

I'm not defending ESEA, I'm defending the idea of a league's competitiveness. There are reasons why ESEA is still played. I don't agree with ESEA being the receiver of the TF2 community's money and time, but there are features they have that lend to a higher level of play.

You probably didn't get what I was saying, because I absolutely do not want ESEA to remain the most played league. Unfortunately it isn't as easy as saying "Anything is possible." It will take a lot of work and it will probably not show the same level of competitiveness for the first year or so, unless the league has LANs from the get-go.

If there are dedicated people who are confident enough to create their own league or possibly endorse CEVO to the point where the game could have LANs, I would love to see that. However there hasn't been a plan in progress and we're speaking hypothetically.

I understood your point the first time, but the goal for a separate league isn't to exceed or even match ESEA's prize pool. It's really just the LAN that creates that standard. i46's prize pool was "alright," and when attending, teams understood they were making maybe $150 per person if they won (due to paying eXtv), but was still regarded as possibly the most hyped, competitive atmosphere TF2 has seen. Honestly, a league could have a prize pool lower than ESEA's, but it's the LAN that really sells it. Having different setups, including monitors, computer hardware, and desk space actually make an enormous difference. More of a difference than what most people think. Having a method by which players compete on equal playing field is desired the most I would say. Having even 75% of a prize pot in a different league while offering LAN would be just as desirable, especially if it means leaving ESEA in the dust.

I do agree however that UGC is handicapped by lack of prize pot.

It's way more than just this. Unless you have experience, you absolutely cannot say the reasons why people play ESEA. The best people hope for when attending LAN is to break even. The more correct answer is there's a certain standard associated with ESEA that causes teams to prove themselves against each other. It is seen as the highest standard of competition, and is played in the same manner. Even if there were a different jumpstart league that iT and mix both played, a mix^ win in the "TeamFortressTV Tournament" carries far less clout and is taken much less seriously.

Money is certainly a motivating factor, but at the end of the day is overlooked for competition. The reason Platinum plays the game season after season is not to earn extra money from TF2 that he doesn't already earn from his regular job (like, what?). It's to win. Everything has always been to win.

Referenced post #73 by tattoli3XD
im just glad that your idiocy didnt go unchecked to be completely honest
#73 if you say so, but writing a check to be done with everything isn't really a big deal

We just wanted a reschedule...

For some reason I read banned. Regardless, marking the team dead before further research doesn't give his teammates faith that they'll be able to keep playing. I think that should probably be done after research. Although I guess theyre not officially marked dead yet. Hope they can still play. Sucks not being able to play the season...

At least they're guilty before proven innocent

One player cheats, whole team banned? Surely it's more ESEA's fault that they didn't catch the cheats with their client rather than the teammates' fault for potentially condoning it? Regardless I find it pretty inefficient to ban every player on the team when it's far easier to fool your teammates into thinking you're legitimate than it should be to trick an anti-cheat client.

"No exceptions." - e$ea

Submit a ticket and let killing flag it for a specialist

To add to anything b4nny said, it came down to principle rather than the sheer numbers. Having a loss was barely the issue, considering it would not be surprising to see us with a loss during the season regardless of this forfeit. It was more the lack of leniency that the admins demonstrated. We did take a while to get paid up, but it wasn't because of laziness. Blaze actually did not have the money to pay, nor did any of us really have anything to offer him. When you don't have a sponsor and you don't have a stable job, sometimes it's hard to throw $60 at something when you have to juggle other things in your life. What makes matters worse is that a simple cancellation of the e-checks (which we asked the admins days in advance for) was unable to be done by anybody in the company until Torbull cancelled them the day Pure left the roster (lol).

I was very surprised we did not get a reschedule. I've played matches on x map during week y several times and I thought it was relatively commonplace. In fact, when justin emailed Torbull asking for a reschedule, he stated it was up to the admins whether or not they would let us play (Killing/Kalkin). Considering both are/were TF2 players, you would think it would be in their best interest to support competition within the game, but apparently not. Verbatim: "All league decisions are made by league admins (CC

I don't enjoy it, but to each his own.

- the last time I played, the unlock rules were very lenient causing a lot of randomness and far too much variability to keep track of (so many different sets with different abilities, my head was spinning)

- it seems that, aside from sniper or spy, every class loses potential. Even heavies, who are really important, can die a lot quicker

- there are so many players to a team that it seems like it would be a lot harder to hit your team potential. In 6s, there's always that one player who messes up the push or targets the wrong player (usually me), who messes up the "perfect push" that the team was striving for. With 1.5x the players, it seems like it would be even harder to find those 9 players who are thinking on the same page

- there are constant heavies and sentries, making me feel like a minion trying to run through a lane in a tower defense game

- from a traveling standpoint, the cost of sending 4 highlander teams is, what, 150% of the cost of 6s teams?

- from a statistics standpoint, on any given day, there is a higher chance that someone on your team could have internet problems, computer problems, or other problems that can keep them from playing

I'm sure there are more reasons as to why I don't think it's efficient, but I feel like I'm running out so I'll just stop there. I have nothing personally against highlander, I just don't think it fits into the nice "comfort zone" for which a lot of competitive FPS games are known (4v4 TDM, 5v5 CS, etc). Seems too crowded, both from a gameplay standpoint and a competitive standpoint. And if you're looking for big sponsors to pick up TF2 as they did Quake and CS, you want to emulate some of the finer features that those sponsors are used to (in this case, team size). As far as e->x<-tine's comment goes, I don't think 6s players see it as a threat, but it would be more efficient if you poured either all the 6s effort into highlander, or vice versa.

But then again, to be completely fair, I am so far out of the loop when it comes to how highlander is played and which classes play which roles.

im glad thrasher had fun watching lan from his computer and judging people with absolutely no context of the situation

thanks for the support guys, we tried

Maybe they should use the money they earned by mining bitcoins to improve their service.

Oops, don't say that on ESEA forums, lpkane will ban you!