Psychotropic
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Signed Up October 9, 2012
Last Posted May 11, 2015 at 9:49 PM
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#232 ESEA open in TF2 General Discussion
PYYYOURShooter first off thanks for communicating in a place where I won't get banned for having unfavorable positions. Also looks like your answers have been fair and unbiased. I assume esea is a business and not a charity and therefore is for profit. If esea does not make money on TF2 then why do you have it? Why do you keep raising prices? Why did YOU finally come to this site to alleviate some concerns? And finally it's my experience that esea doesn't give a shit, why are shits being given now? Especially if your for profit business doesn't profit off of OUR TF2 community.

I have been wondering a similar thing myself. Would love an answer

posted about 10 years ago
#814 ESEA's possible demise? in TF2 General Discussion
ESEA-ShooterPsychotropicSNIP
ESEA is looking into having MAYBE 3 divisions only, but I think 2 is a really far step back :X

I 100% agree with you. 2 is a pretty big step back, and should be avoided if at all possible.

But 0 is an even bigger step back. And should be avoided at all costs

posted about 10 years ago
#812 ESEA's possible demise? in TF2 General Discussion
ESEA-ShooterESEA really wants to have 4 divisions, it's the best format, most balanced as well. Teams worked really hard to have an established format of different skills, let's try to make it happen!

I'm honestly baffled.

    We agreed that ESEA can't support the size of the TF2 division the way it is.
    ESEA reps have - on multiple occasions - told us that TF2 will be dropped if we can't reach a critical mass.
    Myself and others presented alternatives that allow us to decrease the cost to maintain TF2 in such an event that it cannot reach its critical mass - such as [b]right now[/b]
    At which point you counter that you're happy with the way things are now.

This isn't the first time this strange lack of compromise has happened.
When I suggested that Killing decrease the prize pot, he responded the same way:

KillingPsychotropicBut that's ridiculous.
Esea is ultimately a business that provides a product for sale. You need to at least operate at break even to survive. You're allowed to make money.

Do you mean to tell me that tf2 is eseas video game love, and that they support it because the owners enjoy it? I mean that would be possible but why is dropping the game even an option here? Just shrink the prize pot, Damn. Problem solved

Why would we shrink the prize pot? Let's keep it the same and keep growing till the numbers support it.

Yes. People agree with you. 4 Divisions is better. A big prize pot is better. But it's not working right this minute. Why not consider a middle alternative, halfway between giant league and no league?

posted about 10 years ago
#809 ESEA's possible demise? in TF2 General Discussion
DrPloxoOH OH OH! I GOT IT
Let's level the playing field.
That was one of the things people in CEVO liked right?
No divisions. Just open.

Technically, that would steepen the playing field.

posted about 10 years ago
#807 ESEA's possible demise? in TF2 General Discussion
ESEA-ShooterCan't promise a season when ESEA only has ~5 teams fully paid in total (see previous posts).

The reason you don't have teams paid is because you haven't promised a season. I understand that you have offered refunds, but the community has shown that it is hesitant to commit to less than a sure thing. So, if you want to keep TF2 in ESEA, you should promise a season. Now, I understand that this might not seem like a financially prudent decision with the way things are now, which is why...

ESEA-ShooterI outlined the # of teams for each division previously to have 4 divisions.

So cut the divisions! People are saying they're willing to compromise on division count, on prize pot, on everything BUT having a league. The people want a league. The people don't NEED an IM and a Main.

ESEA-ShooterWhy cutting the prize pot?

In order to make it affordable for your business! Nobody WANTS to cut the prize pot, but it's the (far) lesser of two evils. If given a choice between a season in ESEA with a lousy prize pot and no more seasons in ESEA, I think everyone in the community would agree that they'll take the smaller prize pot. This is a suggestion to help make it less detrimental to your business in order to keep the eSport. If you wanted, you could say something like "the prize pot for s16 of ESEA will be determined based on the number of participants." This way, you can hold a league whether or not you're shelling out so that you do not break the bank.

ESEA-ShooterLAN will always happen as long as TF2 has an Invite division.

Wonderful.

posted about 10 years ago
#804 ESEA's possible demise? in TF2 General Discussion
ESEA-ShooterJDMYoshiokaEven a 1 week extension would help greatly Shooter. Please make it happen. Our main team will pay up asap.You think it would bring the number of teams to the goal?

The strategy of telling players to pay up or lose the league has not worked.
There was already a week to join and pay up, and very few did. Mostly because people were very skeptical as to whether ESEA would exist.

The solution is simple:
Promise a season!
Tell the community that NEXT season's existence is contingent upon THIS season's participation
Cut the prize pot so you can afford it (people are not playing for the money!)
Keep the Lan
THEN Extend the deadline

After that, keep an OPEN dialogue with the community and work to regain their trust.
I'm not saying you don't deserve their trust, or that you are untrustworthy. I'm saying there is a segment of the community that does not trust you. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong; it simply is. Win it back.

That, in my opinion, is how ESEA survives.

posted about 10 years ago
#129 ESEA PROMOTION in TF2 General Discussion
KillingWithADanceNumberis anyone else fustrated by this?

I really wanted to play ESEA this season. But with there being two open teams and no sign of anything changing I moved over to where the players were (CEVO). Now it looks like esea might be stabalized, and i've already secured payments to cevo. I can afford both, thats not an issue but i'm not sure at this point which league will be better for me. I'd prefer to only commit my time to one league (I work evenings sometimes so scrimming/matches can be rough). With 4 match nighs a week, potentially on different maps I just don't know what to do...

Registration for Team Fortress 2 Season 4 will open on Monday, January 20th and will end on Monday, February 17th at 11:59 PM CST.

ASK FOR YOUR REFUNDS WHILE YOU HAVE THE CHANCE. It seems like you still have another 2 days which is plenty of time.

TF2 Community: "We want changes to ESEA"

ESEA: "...." (not listening)

Cevo comes along.

TF2 Community: "We're going to play in Cevo"

ESEA: "If you do, we're going to dump you! We're willing to changes and listen to you. But first, you have to all drop Cevo and get refunds. After you do that, MAYBE we'll stay around."

posted about 10 years ago
#57 ESEA PROMOTION in TF2 General Discussion
Killingm4risaKillingIT'S NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE MONEY. That's why but nobody seems to get that.
I don't understand why the season would be completely cancelled if it wasn't about the money, couldn't IM and Main just be cut out and the LAN pot reduced?

There's operating at a loss and then operating with 6 open teams. There is quite a big difference. LAN pot is mostly to get the players there so we can't really reduce that much. I've thought a lot about cutting IM and Main but I really just don't want to. I'm not going to worsen my product just because CEVO wants to make a league. I think everyone is happy with the current tiers and I'd like to keep it that way.

Firstly, the pot does not put players in your league. I promise you. The LAN does, t he competition does, the prestige does. But the size of the money is largely irrelevant, especially to the player base you're currently lacking

Secondly, no one is saying they want to cut a tier or drop the pot. But those are highly preferable to dropping the game altogether. Right?

posted about 10 years ago
#48 ESEA PROMOTION in TF2 General Discussion
serv0Dude idk how many times he has to tell you, they never made money off of TF2, they make money off of CSGO and that's about it.

Well, either A) they actually do make money or B) they hope to someday make money or C) tf2 supports their other revenue streams in other ways or D) they are mismanaging their business

Either way, they need players and are bleeding themselves to death with a prize pot

posted about 10 years ago
#42 ESEA PROMOTION in TF2 General Discussion
KillingPsychotropicKillingPsychotropicKillingLKincheloeI don't think anybody is saying YOU don't care Killing. It's more that your superiors don't seem to show the same appreciation for TF2 that you show.
Tell me why you think they don't care. You think ESEA is all about money right? I haven't lost a dime on ESEA for the entire 4 years. Them on the other hand haven't made a dime.

How can you think they are only about money when they don't make any?

Why are they supporting tf2 if they aren't making any money off of it?

Sorry but I just don't see the point of incentivizing a customer base that loses your business money.

IT'S NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE MONEY. That's why but nobody seems to get that.

But that's ridiculous.
Esea is ultimately a business that provides a product for sale. You need to at least operate at break even to survive. You're allowed to make money.

Do you mean to tell me that tf2 is eseas video game love, and that they support it because the owners enjoy it? I mean that would be possible but why is dropping the game even an option here? Just shrink the prize pot, Damn. Problem solved

Why would we shrink the prize pot? Let's keep it the same and keep growing till the numbers support it.

That would be great!
But you're talking about dropping the game altogether, and I'm just suggesting that if it comes to that, there a middle ground.

The prize pot is presumably your largest tf2 expense, and it has questionable value in attracting a low level player base, which is what you need.

Why not set it at a sustainable level?

posted about 10 years ago
#34 ESEA PROMOTION in TF2 General Discussion
KillingPsychotropicKillingLKincheloeI don't think anybody is saying YOU don't care Killing. It's more that your superiors don't seem to show the same appreciation for TF2 that you show.
Tell me why you think they don't care. You think ESEA is all about money right? I haven't lost a dime on ESEA for the entire 4 years. Them on the other hand haven't made a dime.

How can you think they are only about money when they don't make any?

Why are they supporting tf2 if they aren't making any money off of it?

Sorry but I just don't see the point of incentivizing a customer base that loses your business money.

IT'S NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE MONEY. That's why but nobody seems to get that.

But that's ridiculous.
Esea is ultimately a business that provides a product for sale. You need to at least operate at break even to survive. You're allowed to make money.

Do you mean to tell me that tf2 is eseas video game love, and that they support it because the owners enjoy it? I mean that would be possible but why is dropping the game even an option here? Just shrink the prize pot, Damn. Problem solved

posted about 10 years ago
#191 ESEA's possible demise? in TF2 General Discussion

I will say that it's pretty great that tf2 has a community that cares so much about the game, as seen here. Yeah, there's a lot of disagreement, but we've all got the same goal here, and there are a shit ton of vocal supporters.

posted about 10 years ago
#18 ESEA PROMOTION in TF2 General Discussion
KillingLKincheloeI don't think anybody is saying YOU don't care Killing. It's more that your superiors don't seem to show the same appreciation for TF2 that you show.
Tell me why you think they don't care. You think ESEA is all about money right? I haven't lost a dime on ESEA for the entire 4 years. Them on the other hand haven't made a dime.

How can you think they are only about money when they don't make any?

Why are they supporting tf2 if they aren't making any money off of it?

Sorry but I just don't see the point of incentivizing a customer base that loses your business money.

posted about 10 years ago
#177 ESEA's possible demise? in TF2 General Discussion
BurnDLPsychotropicSnipWhy should they weather this season? Our community has told them to fuck off. That's the message we are sending, I would already have pulled the plug in their situation.

As a business decision. Limiting their client base hurts, no matter what people say about whether they do or do not turn a profit. It is in their best interest to preserve the gaming communities which they serve

posted about 10 years ago
#171 ESEA's possible demise? in TF2 General Discussion
dashnerJust going to drop in and say there have been many times that I've lost my passion for this game and really didn't want to play ever again.

ESEA LAN always had a way of reinvigorating me and getting me excited for TF2 no matter what. No matter how bad a season might have been you could always count on LAN being super exciting and bringing in a ton of viewers. IMO, it's a hugely important part of our scene and it's going to suck to see it be wiped out if that's what happens. I'd be less worried if there was an event that could actually replace it in terms of the competition ESEA LAN brings, such as an i-series type of LAN in North America, but as far as I know there really isn't anything like that on the horizon.

I would contend that it is the fact that LAN is the finals of the season, the best four teams in America, and a back to back to back two day affair with exciting coverage that makes it valuable to your excitement. The fact that it is in person with low ping probably factors into it very little from a spectator perspective.

The recent tftv zowie tournament showed that high level competition is just as exciting online, and draws similar viewers.

From a player perspective, I understand that low ping is preferred, but if you're trying to cut costs and preserve the system, while we're asking for sacrifices, asking high level players to tolerate the ping seems to be a possibility

posted about 10 years ago
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