the absolute pinnacle of sports https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Xk68TLasE

this might have been a shitpost but now im legitimately curious

yes this is what everyone says and it is wrong. its like pronouncing "me llamo" me-la-mo :(

me lame oh

why am i not on the worst alias list??? fucking robbed, no one even knows how to pronounce it

Hit the nail on the head. This forum is the place to be if you love this game but hate yourself.
also
The bmers don't give a fuck about "helping new players" or "saving the game." bmers bm because to them the game is already dead. Only real answer is to just avoid it yourself

edit i missed the "than in." still happy to argue with earlier posts that "it's not as easy to sit down and watch as csgo is but its certainly no worse than tf2 is"

You're saying there's more shiny stuff in TF2? I don't see how that could possibly be true, the only shiny things in TF2 are the control points, ubercharges, and kritz. In OW it seems like almost every character has its own form of shiny thing. Mercy alone has 3 shiny things, between ult, damage and health boost. I think TF2 does a better job explaining those things visually as well.

I also strongly disagree that TF2 is just as hard to sit down and watch as OW. Fuck I was visiting my grandparents during the grand finals of i58. They were curious about what I kept glancing at on my phone, and I got them to understand the basic gist of what was going on within a few minutes: "Red and blue shoot each other, and they stand on the ground until it turns their color. When they have all the ground they win." Nothing else really needs explaining. You have some very basic weapons that sometimes do silly things based on cartoon logic. Shotguns and bombs and rockets are all self explanatory, and understanding rocket jumping is really just as simple as hearing the phrase "rocket jumping." Understanding the heal beam is easy when you realize it originates from the class called the medic (who has a big red cross on his back), ubercharge and kritz are clearly powerups based on visuals, and everything else is just fluff you don't need to know unless you are trying to play it yourself.

I don't know where I'd start with OW. You can kind of say "blue shoots red," except those colors switch off constantly for the spectator. KOTH is relatively easy to explain, but only getting the payload after capturing a point is weird. And each character, while most of them do the same thing as a few other characters, does it in a way that is so different that the similarities are completely invisible to a spectator. You just have a billion different combinations of heroes running around, and while they're clearly shooting at each other, a new spectator will not have any idea what's going on for more than a few seconds at a time. Every ult is something new they have to figure out, every team push there are 3 or 4 at a time they have to try to distinguish. I'm not saying OW is complicated; it's not, but there's so much shit going on, with such a variety, that there's no way you can just sit down and see what's happening.

TF2 has plenty of shit going on as well, but the complexity comes from how it's used and really isn't visible until you play with it yourself. Every time you see a rocket, you know exactly which type of character launched it, because there's only 1 type of guy with a rocket launcher. Sure, in OW the only guy with rockets is Pharah, but you're way less likely to figure that out with 11 other heroes on the field shooting their own whacky projectiles. For TF2, the most complicated thing I can think of from the spectator's view are the ubercharges, but I don't think those are difficult to figure out. That's not only because they're easy to explain verbally, but because the visual cue provided with it is so clear. A powered up dude is totally shiny. A powered up weapon shoots shiny projectiles. In no other situation will those guys and things be shiny.

The only thing that should make newcomers feel unwelcome (the ones that you actually want, anyway) is when they ask questions and people tell them to get fucked for it. Otherwise yes this is a community and there are things outsiders don't understand. I mean fuck try browsing /r/eve for 5 minutes and tell me how much you understand. That game is famous specifically for players fucking each other over and yet it still works because there's a huge active movement for helping out the newbros.

there are no good guys here

gg to offclassico, you had some weird pauses but thankyou for playing the video game

yeah its got that double whammy of dank meme and depressing truth

To me you said that Valve can't be expected to participate in any kind of dialog. To Shounic, you're saying there will be some kind of back and forth between "proposal, rejection." How are you distinguishing between Valve completely ignoring the comp community (i.e.,what Valve is doing) and Valve actually rejecting what we ask of them?

I addressed this above. They act like they came up with the idea of competitive TF2 and are developing it like so. They've started acknowledging that TF2 could be a comp game; not that it already is one.

I thought I covered that too. There's no indication that Valve reads anything that isn't /r/tf2 outside of this hilariously bittersweet post where he only posted to let us know Valve is ignoring what we want and patching our fix.

yup. played tf2 for 4 years prior to finding comp. 900 hours of casual, picked up an extra 1.5k in the year since. only found out because im a loser who browses /r/tf2.

I know I literally just said I've only been around for a year, but from what I hear people have already played (or experimented with) formats like what Valve has on the table right now. It's a nice concept, and I personally would be willing to play on a team in a league with Valve rules if there was a guarantee of some meaningful iteration, but a) there is no such guarantee and b) I imagine most people would rather quit and move to other games than wait for Valve to figure out what the fuck it's doing. I don't see why Valve can't stop ignoring what already exists and take clues about what to do from there. For every time you answer questions like

there are ten people who aren't reading or won't care. You can't type this problem away at this point unless you're a Valve employee typing up the patch notes we all want to see.

This statement is dripping with irony. They totally want the help of us clueless peons, I'm sure. There's a difference between "we want to re-test these restrictions" and "fuck you guys, our game balance is fine." I'm sure you can guess which statement I feel Valve is coming from. Somehow I don't think they're getting any good data from their matchmaking system at the moment, and I don't see what you think they want us to do to help them get that data. The solutions you have offered center around playing weird formats with the 11 friends we all have on hand who are willing to do so, with no explanation as to why the fuck would Valve care what those results of those games are. I guess you expect everyone to believe Valve reads the forums regularly? Sure, I remember that one time Jill posted. And then ignored what the thread was about with the next update.

On restrictions you go on to say "it’s interesting to at least think about it to yourself and brainstorm as a community," but I don't see what this community hasn't already thought through a thousand times.

We don't need Valve to confirm monetary support for comp. We need an indication that Valve has noticed the comp scene that does exist. As it is, it's as though they've noticed there are a few semi-famous players that they have talk to here and there since those people take it upon themselves to come and visit, but have no idea why those people are well known and still think comp TF2 is some brand new thing. It's great talking about getting the community together to help Valve make this a thing, but pretty much every single person with the experience and connections to make that happen gave up years ago. They're never coming back, you will never be able to say anything to bring them back, and the people who remain are here to play a game they already think is fun, not to fuck around with with Valve halfheartedly hoping the stupid bullshit they're putting up with will actually make some kind of difference.

I don't think that's the end-all-be-all of the situation. Seems like every time I talk to a player who doesn't want to play comp, it's either because they're not interested in comp play (in which case they're not playing ANY games competitively) or because 6s isn't "real" TF2. Player interest isn't a concrete thing. REAL Valve support would change that second group in an instant, but as of now that group doesn't care because what Valve has supported is garbage for both newbies and veterans. I don't think most people even want Valve to straight up mirror the format that currently exists, but I do think they want Valve to take it as the basis for developing the game further.

for those of us that started playing after CEVO dropped the game?

dont be silly. the soldier and scout might go spy occasionally

Do they actually pay money to mapmakers?

Even if they do, how hard can it be to say no?