| Account Details | |
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| SteamID64 | 76561198116515589 |
| SteamID3 | [U:1:156249861] |
| SteamID32 | STEAM_0:1:78124930 |
| Country | United States |
| Signed Up | October 3, 2015 |
| Last Posted | April 2, 2019 at 5:18 PM |
| Posts | 11 (0 per day) |
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An ultiduo map I made a couple years back and decided to finally push it out of alpha. Thaw is a unique snow-themed courtyard inspired by my favorite map baloo. The cylindrical point has an overhang and a walkway to get on top. The map is mirrored symmetrical rather than rotated symmetrical.
Thanks to V!s, Juse, and others for giving me helpful feedback. The map has seen major improvements, please leave your feedback below!
[Map Deleted]
I hope things get sorted out.
eXtineAgain, take some fucking ownership. I asked you to help config the server and got you setup to get it running yourself, and you said sure. I know you took over as Captain of this squad, but Jayy helping manage the server was part of the original sponsorship and agreement. I believe we covered this when you took over as Captain and I asked if you wanted me to keep paying for it. If you didn't use the server I provided that's your fault.
I paid for 2x 3-month ESEA premiums to get this season rolling, and a 1-month premium somewhere in there that I myself don't need.
Every cent I contributed towards this ESEA-Open season has been a waste thank you very much.
If you want I can captain. I really wish wish I had enough time to get really good at the game team fortress. the esports for this game is really growing and it's really exciting to see virtually no drama among such a dedicated community.
AdebisiJnaejnaeniteno mapper wants to make a competitive exclusive map, and a tiny payload map would be exactly that. it would be unplayable in pubs which means it would be unusable by 90% of a mappers audience, as well as being much less likely to be included in the game by valve. by asking a mapper to make an experimental map that is unplayable for most tf2 players (and very unlikely to be played by the remainder anyway) you are basically asking someone to waste hundreds of hours of their life to do something that no one will ever use.
the reason it's also not be likely to get picked up by the competitive community anyway is not because of a "stubborn" mentality, but because its just not likely that a payload map would be good for a competitive format. 5cp has had nearly a decade of competitive testing. when someone sets out to make a competitive 5cp map there are a series of guidelines that make your map near instantly playable for 6's at at least a basic level. payload has had very little testing (save for highlander, which doesnt apply to 6's anyway) so if someone sets out to make a competitive payload map, like fatherbrandon tried to do recently, there is no way of telling what works and what doesn't other than just by a TON of testing.
realistically, to make a payload map that works well in 6's, we would need at least a handful (3-4, ideally more) of dramatically different test maps, each being balanced with different concepts to try to figure out what works and what doesnt, all being tested consistently and with serious volume over the course of months to even come close to matching the sort of guidelines that 5cp has now. i dont know about you, but having 3-4 high quality, dedicated competitive mappers willing to work with the competitive community for months while ALSO having the competitive communities interest maintained during that time seems about as likely as valve handing us a $50,000 international tournament tomorrow.
If the main issue is just lack of willing people to work on it and test it, I can certainly help if people like the idea. I have a bit of mapping experience myself, and I would certainly help if other people were down to do so also.
JDawgManiacDoes anyone remember the weird joke payload map, I think it was called dogbread, where the cart started in the middle and could be pushed by either team?
I feel like this is an idea that could be worked on, because it allows for the same attack and defend mechanics of 5cp and koth, where you're not locked into one role.
While thats not a bad idea, that is basically a payload on 5 cp. Your idea is very reminiscent of payload race, but that gamemode didnt really work out. I think payload should stay its own unique gamemode, because if its just 5cp with a payload, nothing unique can from from it.
AdebisiI'm not sure, as I am not sure how it would work or flow
It could be stalematey still if the defensive team wins a fight and digs in with a sentry, heavy etc and the attacking team has to break it somehow.
The only thing I can think that is good, is that there are decisions to be made by an attacking team (do we all push the cart for max speed, or push up and prevent the defensive team getting dug in/spawn camp them) and the defending team (the need to stop the cart progressing being a factor when taking any fight). Then again, I can imagine the second just being resolved by defending teams setting up defences at certain choke points in order to avoid risk.
5cp is actually far more "stalematey" because both teams can defend, and you get extra time for caps making the match's time unlimited. Payload is not a stalemate if defense is strong, because a stale mate means no one is winning and nothing is happening, if the payload is not moving that is not a stalemate because the defense is winning.
Also engie nests at choke points are really not hard to take out if you have a coordinated team, all you need is an uber and a demo. Remember I made sure the state that this idea only works with a class limit of max one engineer and max one heavy. So you dont have to worry about killing 3 sentries anyways.
Well, technically a team can be winning in CP and still have a stalemate over a point.
Maybe stalemate is the wrong term, but you can imagine a lot of times when the attack is halted for periods which is essentially the same issue to watch as stalemates in CP, it's not actually that fun to see teams repeatedly try and take out sentries and heavies with uber.
No, but in combination with pyros, heavies and snipers (1 max, I know), it becomes a lot more of a grind. Particularly as there is no objective to cap so the non-engie classes can kite the uber and counter-pop easily.
I'm not saying it can't ever work, I just think it has to be careful handled to keep it flowing. No issues with the idea being explored.
If certain classes hold up the game too much we have the ability to inflict further limitations. Such as no heavy and engineer at the same time. However TF2 doesn't have a large competitive audience, so the assumption that 6s is the "most fun to watch" is subjective.
Yes the attack will be haulted, if it wasnt the attacking team would win every round. So making payload too offense centric could actually make the gamemode LESS fun. So yes this has to be carefully handled. If this mini-payload works with the standard 6's class, its also possible to simply ban engineer, heavy, and pyro. I only wanted to refrain hard banning certain classes because it alienates the playerbase which is one of the issues in current 6s.
niteno mapper wants to make a competitive exclusive map, and a tiny payload map would be exactly that. it would be unplayable in pubs which means it would be unusable by 90% of a mappers audience, as well as being much less likely to be included in the game by valve. by asking a mapper to make an experimental map that is unplayable for most tf2 players (and very unlikely to be played by the remainder anyway) you are basically asking someone to waste hundreds of hours of their life to do something that no one will ever use.
the reason it's also not be likely to get picked up by the competitive community anyway is not because of a "stubborn" mentality, but because its just not likely that a payload map would be good for a competitive format. 5cp has had nearly a decade of competitive testing. when someone sets out to make a competitive 5cp map there are a series of guidelines that make your map near instantly playable for 6's at at least a basic level. payload has had very little testing (save for highlander, which doesnt apply to 6's anyway) so if someone sets out to make a competitive payload map, like fatherbrandon tried to do recently, there is no way of telling what works and what doesn't other than just by a TON of testing.
realistically, to make a payload map that works well in 6's, we would need at least a handful (3-4, ideally more) of dramatically different test maps, each being balanced with different concepts to try to figure out what works and what doesnt, all being tested consistently and with serious volume over the course of months to even come close to matching the sort of guidelines that 5cp has now. i dont know about you, but having 3-4 high quality, dedicated competitive mappers willing to work with the competitive community for months while ALSO having the competitive communities interest maintained during that time seems about as likely as valve handing us a $50,000 international tournament tomorrow.
If the main issue is just lack of willing people to work on it and test it, I can certainly help if people like the idea. I have a bit of mapping experience myself, and I would certainly help if other people were down to do so also.
JDawgManiacDoes anyone remember the weird joke payload map, I think it was called dogbread, where the cart started in the middle and could be pushed by either team?
I feel like this is an idea that could be worked on, because it allows for the same attack and defend mechanics of 5cp and koth, where you're not locked into one role.
While thats not a bad idea, that is basically a payload on 5 cp. Your idea is very reminiscent of payload race, but that gamemode didnt really work out. I think payload should stay its own unique gamemode, because if its just 5cp with a payload, nothing unique can from from it.
AdebisiI'm not sure, as I am not sure how it would work or flow
It could be stalematey still if the defensive team wins a fight and digs in with a sentry, heavy etc and the attacking team has to break it somehow.
The only thing I can think that is good, is that there are decisions to be made by an attacking team (do we all push the cart for max speed, or push up and prevent the defensive team getting dug in/spawn camp them) and the defending team (the need to stop the cart progressing being a factor when taking any fight). Then again, I can imagine the second just being resolved by defending teams setting up defences at certain choke points in order to avoid risk.
5cp is actually far more "stalematey" because both teams can defend, and you get extra time for caps making the match's time unlimited. Payload is not a stalemate if defense is strong, because a stale mate means no one is winning and nothing is happening, if the payload is not moving that is not a stalemate because the defense is winning.
Also engie nests at choke points are really not hard to take out if you have a coordinated team, all you need is an uber and a demo. Remember I made sure the state that this idea only works with a class limit of max one engineer and max one heavy. So you dont have to worry about killing 3 sentries anyways.
Here are the main reasons why payload does not work with 6's:
- Maps are too BIG
- Respawn times are biased
- No one wants cart duty
What if we could make community payload maps designed with small teams in mind? As in small payload maps, with respawns made more fair to accommodate this change? Class limits are important, obviously no 2 engies or 2 heavies.
Fixing the cart duty issue is a bit more complicated. One adjustment that would help is by making the capture area around the payload larger, this could mean a scout pushing the cart is able to move a lot more letting them engage in more combat while capping. Maps like upward often you have to push over hill, but the payload is under the hill so the person pushing is completely separated from the action, putting the payload in the center of the action would make capping a lot less boring. I think these two adjustments combined would fix the issue of the scout doing nothing but push all game.
Will this make payload just as exciting and fast as 5cp? Well not quite, but I think it would be a big step in the right direction. It would give some off-classes more chance to shine, and I think this would be the ideal way of adapting the ever popular payload gamemode to work in smaller more competitive teams. I know the 6s community is known for being a bit stubborn, but hopefully I can spark some discussion.
LainI don't know if I like this trend, people are trying to make the new version of Yukon/Coldfront/Well/Freight/Foundry that isn't shit, and while I don't think it comes from a bad place, they are seeing things the wrong way.
Pro maps are only successful if the base is workable, Viaduct and Granary where two stellar maps, even without their pro versions, but their pro versions made the maps just that much better. Trying to make a pro version of something like Well or Foundry would require so much more new brushwork and gameplay areas to be built/redone that it just isn't the same map anymore.
I tried to do this to Foundry. I reworked the second point completely, then people realised that last was a little dumb, so I started slowly reworking that into something people liked, then mid had too many sightlines ect ect.. Over the course of 13 versions the map slowly went from Foundry to something completely different, so far disconnected from the current Foundry that you couldn't recognize it unless I told you.
A good alternative to all of this jazz is to make a new map, something completely new from your mind that takes the stuff that you liked best from your favorite map and does them better. Process did this extremely well. The middle point has the same distinct gameplay as Granary, but over the course of a few versions evolved into something new. The same with the last point, it was originally just a clone of Well last, but he kept morphing the idea until he got one of the best and most popular competitive maps in the game. That's how you do a _pro version right.
Good point. However previously in my thread you might see that I found myself doing something else entirely, I am gonna remove most of the walls and floors, and make everything a death pit basically making it even more of a goofy map. I changed from cp_well_pro to cp_well_sky However I do agree with you.
itszedJnaejnaeOMG in attempt to decompile the valve well map. I deleted almost everything. Even the walls and floors, but the parts that remained turned out REALLY AWESOME. Forget cp_well_pro, and welcome cp_well_sky. Basically gonna be well, but make it floating with like a million places to fall into oblivion ;phttp://tf2maps.net/threads/valve-maps-decompiled.5952/
Well sorry if I used the wrong word. I actually got the file from that site. Except the cp_well from that site is the one with decompiling issues, some problems with occulsions. The things that disappeared where things I tried to delete to fix the problem. However the shell I was left with game me inspiration. Thanks for trying to help tho.
OMG in attempt to decompile the valve well map. I deleted almost everything. Even the walls and floors, but the parts that remained turned out REALLY AWESOME. Forget cp_well_pro, and welcome cp_well_sky. Basically gonna be well, but make it floating with like a million places to fall into oblivion ;p
LKinche. Good ideas: However would you rather me make it so soldiers and demos cant rocket jump before it opens? Or do you want me to remove the door timers entirely like your initial thoughts
Deetr. Nah, I just have always wanted to make my own tf2 maps, only know have I got around to actually learning how to do so.
itszed what do you mean by "shutter doors" I can just remove those doors if you want? Or do you mean something different? Like I said I just got into mapping. Id like a little more detail
gr8stalin good points, yeah the train kills and stuff like that would kill some of the charm, It would be like removing the hazards from trainsawlazer I understand. I just love the layout so well (no pun intended) that I would like to see it as a serious map. I still would probably stick to the fun well we all know. However its a good shape, and I would love to see more serious and competitive play back on it.
Personally my favorite pub map, and now that ive got into mapping I would like to hear suggestions from many experienced tf2 players on how this map could improve even more. Do you want a sniper wall or sniper sightline? Is there any place that could use more/less ammo/health? Is there any place you would think an alternate passage would work well with? No pun intended. ect.
Id just like some group opinions. Thanks :P+