I sent off messages. I'm going to try and have it done today. We'll see what happens.

hell yea im joining ESEA open

ESEA tolerates the TF2 league, but they don't promote it or try to improve it. CEVO's platform is that of a league for the players; you should be able to see why that's attractive after playing under ESEA's indifference. TF2 has always been second to CS. Permitted to stay but otherwise left alone. I appreciate that ESEA has given us a place to play, but the community has grown and now we want more. At least that's how I've always seen it.

But that's ridiculous.
Esea is ultimately a business that provides a product for sale. You need to at least operate at break even to survive. You're allowed to make money.

Do you mean to tell me that tf2 is eseas video game love, and that they support it because the owners enjoy it? I mean that would be possible but why is dropping the game even an option here? Just shrink the prize pot, Damn. Problem solved

I really couldn't disagree more. What makes CEVO's platform better? They picked up likeable community figures and made a league. I'm not sure if I heard correctly but a large piece of the prize pot came from nahanni's pocket. They aren't risking much on TF2, I'm willing to risk it all. I want you to tell me right now what you want me to do to improve ESEA TF2. I'm more than willing to have a discussion.

Dude idk how many times he has to tell you, they never made money off of TF2, they make money off of CSGO and that's about it.

Why would we shrink the prize pot? Let's keep it the same and keep growing till the numbers support it.

Given that TF2 team registration is so low, even last season, that they don't make a profit, are you surprised to feel that way?
If they made money off of tf2, it'd be worthwhile, from a business aspect to improve and promote it more universally. But at the moment, even given peak registration numbers, they lose money.
It's idiotic to expect ANYTHING to give more effort than they get in reward.

I don't understand why the season would be completely cancelled if it wasn't about the money, couldn't IM and Main just be cut out and the LAN pot reduced?

I'm not trying to be a dickhead, but do you have proof of this? If you do, then it makes the biggest argument against ESEA invalid.

The things that push me away from ESEA are the things like the beginning of last season. An update came out which made the client unusable, postponing matches (which is understandable). It took at least a week before matches could be played again. That's the example (to me) that showed that ESEA really doesn't care that much.

I thoroughly believe that you care about TF2, Killing. You're a really nice and genuine guy. But I've heard some things that lpkane has said about TF2, and I don't know if they are true, but they still stick with me. How come I've never seen lpkane back you up in a TF2 thread on here? That would give me some reason to come back to ESEA, but unfortunately, I just don't see it.

lol killing trying to save his job

That would be great!
But you're talking about dropping the game altogether, and I'm just suggesting that if it comes to that, there a middle ground.

The prize pot is presumably your largest tf2 expense, and it has questionable value in attracting a low level player base, which is what you need.

Why not set it at a sustainable level?

There's operating at a loss and then operating with 6 open teams. There is quite a big difference. LAN pot is mostly to get the players there so we can't really reduce that much. I've thought a lot about cutting IM and Main but I really just don't want to. I'm not going to worsen my product just because CEVO wants to make a league. I think everyone is happy with the current tiers and I'd like to keep it that way.

I really hope ESEA stays. I've been playing to work myself up to ESEA, and if it ends now, I would have to wait for CEVO to get a substantial playerbase so I have something to work towards. I would join ESEA right now, but I can't pay the prices at this time (Right now I'm 13, I'll probably be able to play at some point, s17 probably) I don't want this to end. Sign up for ESEA people.

I really don't need the money. I could have quit this job long ago. I'm doing this because:

A) I love it.
B) I honestly do think that ESEA is the better product.
C) I heard lange was asleep.

More people would sign up if the league were better.

TF2 community has shown itself quite generous in the past when it comes to helping teams get to LAN :)

Anyhow, I'm sure ESEA will get more than just 6 Open teams. ESEA will likely have significantly less than last season, but still enough to reasonably operate a decent prize pot to help players get to LAN if it comes down to just having Open and Invite.

Well, either A) they actually do make money or B) they hope to someday make money or C) tf2 supports their other revenue streams in other ways or D) they are mismanaging their business

Either way, they need players and are bleeding themselves to death with a prize pot

Killing, I applaud you for all these years of damage control and trying to keep your job.

ESEA Admin disseminating gossip about a rival league... obviously these tactics warrant you to forfeit your monies to ESEA.

You're fucking delusional, in the 14 seasons of ESEA they have not made money and I know they know they will not make money off it it, they aren't mismanaging this business they want to keep TF2 alive because they care about FPS esports.

Of course, I can't give out the numbers of our operating costs but I believe enigma made a fairly accurate spreadsheet that showed that we lose money.

I agree, the beginning of the season was fucking terrible but this was due to our new client team getting acclimated. It's unfortunate that the worst thing are what sticks out in everyone's head. The thing that you've failed to notice is that there hasn't been a single issue since then. Considering how well everything has gone, I'm pretty sure it will be smooth sailing from now on.

Nothing that you've heard about lpkane is actually true. He does care about TF2. He likes to be a silent owner in regards to TF2, kinda like in sports where the owner stays out of most stuff.

This might surprise you but lpkane was the one that came to me about getting EU TF2. lpkane came to me about adding main. Of course, these were all ideas that I had but hadn't shared yet. I'm not sure if I can ever prove to you guys that he cares, but he wanted to do all that on his own.

rip. I'm so glad that after years of shitty servers, customer support, and clients. ESEA is finally getting what it deserves.

I really don't care how many teams we get. I just want a season. I know that if we get a season going, S17 will be the easiest decision of your life.

wtf?

For everything I've said about ESEA elsewhere, I do respect your work, Killing.

Firstly, the pot does not put players in your league. I promise you. The LAN does, t he competition does, the prestige does. But the size of the money is largely irrelevant, especially to the player base you're currently lacking

Secondly, no one is saying they want to cut a tier or drop the pot. But those are highly preferable to dropping the game altogether. Right?

I thought they made it public. It was in one of the CEVO threads. If I'm wrong, they can correct me.

You had me up until you said that you were risking everything and Nahanni is not. Yet Nahanni is risking the money from her own pocket while you said that you could've quit awhile ago since you are so comfortable. I don't know how comfortable Nahanni is, but putting her own money on the line shows how much she wants that league to succeed.

I'm not really sure what Nahanni's motivations are but I wouldn't expect her to put up money for every season. All of the other CEVO games are f2p (besides their pro division) and they have bigger prze pots than TF2.

I also heard it will all be crowd funded (i.e. The previous season's league fees will go towards the next's prize pots). We are currently at just over 20k in prizes. 20,000 / 7 players per team (generous with a sub paid per team ) / 15 $ per player = 190 teams. I hope TF2 gets there some day, but I think we're still a way off. That 20k is money we're already putting in, no strings attached.