Ok thanks for the clarification. BTW I tried to clarify what I meant when I said "she's not making a good game" in the line after that; her work is not improving but rather detracting from playing the game. As in, "she's not making a game with well-designed characters". Sure character design barely matters to me personally but it sure as hell doesn't add anything and it does detract a tiny bit if the character is poorly designed. I guess it just bothers me when people infer other's justifications for their opinions.
Can you address my first post? Or do you agree that the ESA study you linked has little to no relevance to pine_beetle's original statistic and even less to his actual argument?
Ok thanks for the clarification. BTW I tried to clarify what I meant when I said "she's not making a good game" in the line after that; her work is not improving but rather detracting from playing the game. As in, "she's not making a game with well-designed characters". Sure character design barely matters to me personally but it sure as hell doesn't add anything and it does detract a tiny bit if the character is poorly designed. I guess it just bothers me when people infer other's justifications for their opinions.
Can you address my first post? Or do you agree that the ESA study you linked has little to no relevance to pine_beetle's original statistic and even less to his actual argument?
pine_beetleYeah that sounds like it's worth the money...
Am I reading this right? Are you telling me the game would be less valuable if it featured female robots instead of male ones?
No, help me out. I'm misunderstanding.
[quote=pine_beetle]Yeah that sounds like it's worth the money...[/quote]
Am I reading this right? Are you telling me the game would be less valuable if it featured female robots instead of male ones?
No, help me out. I'm misunderstanding.
why do robots even have a gender
why do robots even have a gender
hanbroloher work is not improving but rather detracting from playing the game. As in, "she's not making a game with well-designed characters". Sure character design barely matters to me personally but it sure as hell doesn't add anything and it does detract a tiny bit if the character is poorly designed.
To clarify, the problem is that her actual art is really meh, right? I'm assuming that's the case.
Like, would you like to see something like this in the game? It was posted to the Mighty No. 9 subreddit. I'd like stuff like this in the game.
hanbroloOCan you address my first post? Or do you agree that the ESA study you linked has little to no relevance to pine_beetle's original statistic and even less to his actual argument?
It's pretty impossible to pick out an accurate statistic that fits with pine_bettle's argument. He wants a demographic statistic regarding how many males and how many females specifically play MegaMan games. It's a pretty dumb argument to bring up in my eyes because there's zero accurate statistic. It'll just devolve into a match of "Yeah well I think women aren't as under-represented as you think" and "Yeah well I think it's like 100-1"
[quote=hanbrolo]her work is not improving but rather detracting from playing the game. As in, "she's not making a game with well-designed characters". Sure character design barely matters to me personally but it sure as hell doesn't add anything and it does detract a tiny bit if the character is poorly designed.[/quote]
To clarify, the problem is that her actual art is really meh, right? I'm assuming that's the case.
Like, would you like to see something like [url=http://i.imgur.com/XCMhOIr.gif]this[/url] in the game? It was posted to the Mighty No. 9 subreddit. I'd like stuff like this in the game.
[quote=hanbrolo]OCan you address my first post? Or do you agree that the ESA study you linked has little to no relevance to pine_beetle's original statistic and even less to his actual argument?[/quote]
It's pretty impossible to pick out an accurate statistic that fits with pine_bettle's argument. He wants a demographic statistic regarding how many males and how many females specifically play MegaMan games. It's a pretty dumb argument to bring up in my eyes because there's zero accurate statistic. It'll just devolve into a match of "Yeah well I think women aren't as under-represented as you think" and "Yeah well I think it's like 100-1"
obe_To clarify, the problem is that her actual art is really meh, right? I'm assuming that's the case.
Yes.
obe_It's pretty impossible to pick out an accurate statistic that fits with pine_bettle's argument. He wants a demographic statistic regarding how many males and how many females specifically play MegaMan games. It's a pretty dumb argument to bring up in my eyes because there's zero accurate statistic. It'll just devolve into a match of "Yeah well I think women aren't as under-represented as you think" and "Yeah well I think it's like 100-1"
I guess what I'm trying to say is, "women are a minority in this community and in console/pc games" was pine_beetle's argument, you're acting like your statistic refutes this argument. If you reread the pie-chart of "what people are playing" the study barely represents any information relevant to either of your arguments. That's all I was trying to say. I would air on the side of pine_beetle here; it's fair for pc/console shooting games to be developed for a male audience because that is the majority audience. Do I need to cite a study to say males are a minority in the market for Victoria's Secret underwear? Obviously that example is more obvious, but the shooting games are marketed for males because that's who buys them. That's all pine_beetle said. That seems fair. Your study doesn't address that because it doesn't break up it's general gender statistic into components on each game type.
[quote=obe_]
To clarify, the problem is that her actual art is really meh, right? I'm assuming that's the case.
[/quote]
Yes.
[quote=obe_]
It's pretty impossible to pick out an accurate statistic that fits with pine_bettle's argument. He wants a demographic statistic regarding how many males and how many females specifically play MegaMan games. It's a pretty dumb argument to bring up in my eyes because there's zero accurate statistic. It'll just devolve into a match of "Yeah well I think women aren't as under-represented as you think" and "Yeah well I think it's like 100-1"
[/quote]
I guess what I'm trying to say is, "women are a minority in this community and in console/pc games" was pine_beetle's argument, you're acting like your statistic refutes this argument. If you reread the pie-chart of "what people are playing" the study barely represents any information relevant to either of your arguments. That's all I was trying to say. I would air on the side of pine_beetle here; it's fair for pc/console shooting games to be developed for a male audience because that is the majority audience. Do I need to cite a study to say males are a minority in the market for Victoria's Secret underwear? Obviously that example is more obvious, but the shooting games are marketed for males because that's who buys them. That's all pine_beetle said. That seems fair. Your study doesn't address that because it doesn't break up it's general gender statistic into components on each game type.
I can concede that my statistic wasn't relevant. But to be honest, fundamentally, I think it says a lot about the gaming industry when you say that it's economically more sound to create a game with an exclusive male lead than it is to create a game with an exclusive female lead. They function the exact same, it's just a different gendered character the the player controls. But apparently the male dominated market will refuse a game with a female lead and the devs will lose money?
This is why we need more games with female leads. I've never believed that gaming can be respected as a medium if it keeps throwing female characters under the bus in order to pander to the majority of male gamers.
I can concede that my statistic wasn't relevant. But to be honest, fundamentally, I think it says a lot about the gaming industry when you say that it's economically more sound to create a game with an exclusive male lead than it is to create a game with an exclusive female lead. They function the exact same, it's just a different gendered character the the player controls. But apparently the male dominated market will refuse a game with a female lead and the devs will lose money?
This is why we need more games with female leads. I've never believed that gaming can be respected as a medium if it keeps throwing female characters under the bus in order to pander to the majority of male gamers.
obe_I can concede that my statistic wasn't relevant. But to be honest, fundamentally, I think it says a lot about the gaming industry when you say that it's economically more sound to create a game with an exclusive male lead than it is to create a game with an exclusive female lead. They function the exact same, it's just a different gendered character the the player controls. But apparently the male dominated market will refuse a game with a female lead and the devs will lose money?
This is why we need more games with female leads. I've never believed that gaming can be respected as a medium if it keeps throwing female characters under the bus in order to pander to the majority of male gamers.
Exactly right.
[quote=obe_]I can concede that my statistic wasn't relevant. But to be honest, fundamentally, I think it says a lot about the gaming industry when you say that it's economically more sound to create a game with an exclusive male lead than it is to create a game with an exclusive female lead. They function the exact same, it's just a different gendered character the the player controls. But apparently the male dominated market will refuse a game with a female lead and the devs will lose money?
This is why we need more games with female leads. I've never believed that gaming can be respected as a medium if it keeps throwing female characters under the bus in order to pander to the majority of male gamers.[/quote]
Exactly right.
It doesn't make a difference. Starcraft 2 hear of the swarm... You are kerrigan the most badass chick out there.. Male dominated game. Again a lot of games give you the option to play both, the notion that girls aren't represented is just wrong.
It doesn't make a difference. Starcraft 2 hear of the swarm... You are kerrigan the most badass chick out there.. Male dominated game. Again a lot of games give you the option to play both, the notion that girls aren't represented is just wrong.
pine_beetleIt doesn't make a difference. Starcraft 2 hear of the swarm... You are kerrigan the most badass chick out there.. Male dominated game. Again a lot of games give you the option to play both, the notion that girls aren't represented is just wrong.
Now you're just going in the wrong direction.
Originally, you said
"My arguement is that the vast majority of the people playing these types of games are males. If the vast majority of the people interested in playing it are guys, they need to make it for guys. It's a money decision not a gender decision."
Implying that it's economically more sound to make a game "for guys" since the vast majority of people who play that game are guys. Now you're saying SC2 has a female character and it's sold exceptionally despite it being a male dominated game... You're completely contradicted yourself.
[quote=pine_beetle]It doesn't make a difference. Starcraft 2 hear of the swarm... You are kerrigan the most badass chick out there.. Male dominated game. Again a lot of games give you the option to play both, the notion that girls aren't represented is just wrong.[/quote]
Now you're just going in the wrong direction.
Originally, you said
"My arguement is that the vast majority of the people playing these types of games are males. If the vast majority of the people interested in playing it are guys, they need to make it for guys. It's a money decision not a gender decision."
Implying that it's economically more sound to make a game "for guys" since the vast majority of people who play that game are guys. Now you're saying SC2 has a female character and it's sold exceptionally despite it being a male dominated game... You're completely contradicted yourself.
wonderlandwhy do robots even have a gender
THIS
[quote=wonderland]why do robots even have a gender[/quote]
THIS
holograsmMegaman
Addressed earlier. This is its own IP which happens to be a successor to MegaMan. It's not directly tied to MegaMan, so there is no reason to expect a specified gender in the main character.
[quote=holograsm]Mega[u]man[/u][/quote]
Addressed earlier. This is its own IP which happens to be a successor to MegaMan. It's not directly tied to MegaMan, so there is no reason to expect a specified gender in the main character.
this is a wack thread filled with a lot opinions from people who dont even try to know what feminism is about
this is a wack thread filled with a lot opinions from people who dont even try to know what feminism is about
Scorpiouprisingobe_I can concede that my statistic wasn't relevant. But to be honest, fundamentally, I think it says a lot about the gaming industry when you say that it's economically more sound to create a game with an exclusive male lead than it is to create a game with an exclusive female lead. They function the exact same, it's just a different gendered character the the player controls. But apparently the male dominated market will refuse a game with a female lead and the devs will lose money?
This is why we need more games with female leads. I've never believed that gaming can be respected as a medium if it keeps throwing female characters under the bus in order to pander to the majority of male gamers.
Exactly right.
wait what
are people seriously turned away by game protagonists of the opposite gender
who gives the tiniest amount of shit lol
[quote=Scorpiouprising][quote=obe_]I can concede that my statistic wasn't relevant. But to be honest, fundamentally, I think it says a lot about the gaming industry when you say that it's economically more sound to create a game with an exclusive male lead than it is to create a game with an exclusive female lead. They function the exact same, it's just a different gendered character the the player controls. But apparently the male dominated market will refuse a game with a female lead and the devs will lose money?
This is why we need more games with female leads. I've never believed that gaming can be respected as a medium if it keeps throwing female characters under the bus in order to pander to the majority of male gamers.[/quote]
Exactly right.[/quote]
wait what
are people seriously turned away by game protagonists of the opposite gender
who gives the tiniest amount of shit lol
goatman this thread blows
I got two pesos on it being nuked by the morning (Western Hemisphere).
[quote=goat]man this thread blows[/quote]
I got two pesos on it being nuked by the morning (Western Hemisphere).
whats a peso worth in canada
whats a peso worth in canada
obe_pine_beetleIt doesn't make a difference. Starcraft 2 hear of the swarm... You are kerrigan the most badass chick out there.. Male dominated game. Again a lot of games give you the option to play both, the notion that girls aren't represented is just wrong.
Now you're just going in the wrong direction.
Originally, you said
"My arguement is that the vast majority of the people playing these types of games are males. If the vast majority of the people interested in playing it are guys, they need to make it for guys. It's a money decision not a gender decision."
Implying that it's economically more sound to make a game "for guys" since the vast majority of people who play that game are guys. Now you're saying SC2 has a female character and it's sold exceptionally despite it being a male dominated game... You're completely contradicted yourself.
It's not a contradiction. The target market is males. There are games that have female protagonists and those games are still played by mostly guys. It shouldn't be a surprise that there are more guy leads than girl leads because it's guys playing the game. The statement that there are no games with girl leads is just completely false. There are plenty of games that have them or at least have the option to play as a girl.
[quote=obe_][quote=pine_beetle]It doesn't make a difference. Starcraft 2 hear of the swarm... You are kerrigan the most badass chick out there.. Male dominated game. Again a lot of games give you the option to play both, the notion that girls aren't represented is just wrong.[/quote]
Now you're just going in the wrong direction.
Originally, you said
"My arguement is that the vast majority of the people playing these types of games are males. If the vast majority of the people interested in playing it are guys, they need to make it for guys. It's a money decision not a gender decision."
Implying that it's economically more sound to make a game "for guys" since the vast majority of people who play that game are guys. Now you're saying SC2 has a female character and it's sold exceptionally despite it being a male dominated game... You're completely contradicted yourself.[/quote]
It's not a contradiction. The target market is males. There are games that have female protagonists and those games are still played by mostly guys. It shouldn't be a surprise that there are more guy leads than girl leads because it's guys playing the game. The statement that there are no games with girl leads is just completely false. There are plenty of games that have them or at least have the option to play as a girl.
downpourwhats a peso worth in canada
About 16 cents.
But they're worth more than that in Mexico, due to a disparity between the Canadian and Mexican economic situations, and all sorts of shenanigans based on the relative price of things that are easier to come by in some places than in others, and how badly those things are needed.
[quote=downpour]whats a peso worth in canada[/quote]
About 16 cents.
But they're worth more than that in Mexico, due to a disparity between the Canadian and Mexican economic situations, and all sorts of shenanigans based on the relative price of things that are easier to come by in some places than in others, and how badly those things are needed.
I came here to watch some stream highlights why am I reading the fourth page of this thread
http://i.imgur.com/TB9tQmL.jpg
I came here to watch some stream highlights why am I reading the fourth page of this thread
[img]http://i.imgur.com/TB9tQmL.jpg[/img]
pine_beetleThe statement that there are no games with girl leads is just completely false.
Good thing I never said that.
[quote=pine_beetle]The statement that there are no games with girl leads is just completely false.[/quote]
Good thing I never said that.
something something something buzzword misogynist
but to make a comparison I know will be proven false in a few minutes by the tftv debate squad, it sounds like people just want a good game. It would be like b4nny making a new invite team, promising only the best players and that they would be in the running for first, only when they look for a scout, they choose someone with little experience and who is relatively unknown. People would be upset and worried that it wouldn't live up to its potential, which is what I think the original outrage was about. Her not being as experienced as the team they thought they were promised. I'm with them, I just want a good game.
something something something buzzword misogynist
but to make a comparison I know will be proven false in a few minutes by the tftv debate squad, it sounds like people just want a good game. It would be like b4nny making a new invite team, promising only the best players and that they would be in the running for first, only when they look for a scout, they choose someone with little experience and who is relatively unknown. People would be upset and worried that it wouldn't live up to its potential, which is what I think the original outrage was about. Her not being as experienced as the team they thought they were promised. I'm with them, I just want a good game.
teamfortresstv.tumblr.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Fc_5slG_Q#t=55
A Megaman game is probably the wrong place to be fighting for feminism.
A Megaman game is probably the wrong place to be fighting for feminism.
Video games are fun. Why can't we have fun without talking about issues that aren't immediately present in them?
Video games are fun. Why can't we have fun without talking about issues that aren't immediately present in them?