ppl will cheat

im sure we could use the esea client, and use the scrim finder section that would disable some cheaters or all ? But paying for esea would be in affect than :)

Ask AnAkin if we can use his anti-cheat tool.
Play matches (and scrims?) on 'official' servers.

isn't the tool public?

Why not? It could be like the tf2 pug and tf2pug.na tournaments a while back

if this money comes from the LAN team players themselves, why would the lower seeded teams buy into this tournament at all?

what about a tournament where newer players are encouraged to join?
so newer players donate to join the tournament (not expecting to win) and they get the chance to play against an off-classing top invite team. all proceeds are divided equally between invite teams that decide to participate. then people would want to join just for fun and lolz, it could be streamed, etc. more revenue and it wouldnt take 30 minutes of invite teams' time to play a couple matches. just throwing it out there.

Or prizes that aren't money? You can't tell me you play competitive TF2 for the money.

those were a disastrous waste of time

what prize is actually worthwhile enough to induce competition that isn't money?

sounds like a lot of effort

who's putting in the work?

enigma_dream_galloper

I'd be willing to help organize a tournament if someone knows how to code a website for teams to register and sets up a place to take donations to a pool.

open and IM teams pay for those as well
just like esea without a lan

teamfortress.tv tournament = bp vs Classic Mixup = each team should put up $100 dollars USD per player of their own money who ever wins takes the loot...no donations. I know b4nny would put some cash down on that

We could do like a weekly ringer/lft match.
All the people looking for teams or whatever basically play a pug that's casted. They get noticed by people watching and can play, we get an entertaining match. Captains could be notable members of 6's and HL.
We could have 4 different levels:
-ESEA-IM
-ESEA-O
-HL: Silver-Gold
-HL: Steel-Iron
Cast on different days of the week (preferably not interfering with other casts) and these people get exposure. It could be as simple as a best of 3 maps game. Winning team wins, and could get drafted onto a team. (losers too, but who knows.)
Think newbie mixes, but for people that don't have a team.

That wouldn't be of much use for teams looking for players, if that's what you're getting at #15.

Obviously we should turn TFTV into the next MGE.

Pay to get exclusive access to the top TF2 pros such as enigma, b4nny, etc.

Get into group mumble coaching sessions, with VODs on demand. Get to play against the pros and critiqued. Also, ratings.

Team. Fortress. TV.

Seriously though, a paid tournament doesn't really work well. You'd need such a complicated rule set to make it remotely worth it for people to play and not feel like they're just donating money to invite players and in general wasting everyone's time.

It is worth a try. Good things can happen because people have the audacity to ask why not. Even if this has been "disastrous" before, learn from mistakes and improve. Haters gon hate no matter what you do, don't let enigma discourage you.

I hope you realize that this site is enigma's. If you don't get his approval, it's not happening. And he's laid out plenty of good reasons why it won't work.

I do realise this and his perspective on the matter is intriguing for someone who wants to build a competitive scene. He is essentially trying to null this at the beginning of the creative process, members of the community are just brainstorming. No one has even put together a plan on paper and presented it to him yet.

o_O. Lets see tf2pug tournaments were a disastrous waste of time. I don't even know what that means but when you go outside your comfort zone you learn what works and what doesn't. So never a waste of time. Its great that this has already happened and you have a reference for what did not work.

"Or prizes that aren't money? You can't tell me you play competitive TF2 for the money." You have plenty of video game enthusiasts with plenty of resources in different areas to be innovative with. People that can program, people that donate servers, tf2 items, web hosting, media outlets, etc. I don't have ideas but human creativity is infinite as long as their is dialog in the community.

It will take some work to make shit happen but you have a community willing to help. Just need people that are willing to sack up and make shit happen. You gotta fail to succeed it is how you learn.

It's not about comfort zones or anything like that, it's about the net gain for the community. People have signed up happily for previous online pug tournaments, but they ended up being horribly delayed and horribly managed (players-wise mainly). I don't know how long you've been in the community, but the people who are telling him why it won't work well have dealt with MANY community tournaments. We aren't shooting it down because it's never been tried, it's because we know from experience that there isn't an easy method to make an enjoyable tournament. The amount of effort that is required isn't truly free, it takes a lot from someone's personal life.

I mean, if you know throwing a ball into the air will come back down, do you think throwing it back up will work again? No, you'd have to build a rocket, and going to that result isn't something that can be done haphazardly. We've learned from throwing the ball up in the air many many times and it coming back down every time.

Honestly, you're talking like a dreamer. But what can you do? What will you personally contribute? You're dreaming on the effort of others to come forth, when a lot of people have come forth and failed. If anything, you should take initiative if you truly believe it can be done, when everyone else has become cynical.

PS. The post mainly refutes things that are known to have fail. He doesn't specifically say it can't be done, but he puts out the problems you'd have to overcome in order to make it work. I mean what exactly is the point of paying money to get stomped in 10 minutes by invite teams? A straight up tournament will not work. Invite only? Teams that don't have a chance will likely not pay. If you want to make it work, you have to come up with the idea, and you have to also put in the work to make it happen. I don't think it's fair to come up with an idea and then say "community do it :) :) :)" and let them take care of all the details.

If anything, I think the best option would be to hold a tournament for the purpose of actually expanding the game. Just hold a free tournament, allow teams to join that have no esea experience and make the top prizes premium and fees which could be payed for by some donations from members in the community, or something like that. There is a lot of time in the off season and if you held a tournament like this it would probably get a lot more exposure for tf.tv, get some more teams into esea, etc.

That's a much better idea, but we'd have to come up with a way to detect smurf accounts or else some open players might join for the free premium.

Yeah that's the only big problem in my mind, the first thing I can think of to solve that would make it so they have to register an account on the site and check the ips or whatever

I'm not gonna do shit i just like to watch and play on occasion. Video games are not my passion. If video games are your passion then you need dreams and you need drive to make dreams reality. You can keep conditioning your mind to make reasons why you shouldn't do something or you can start conditioning the mind to say why the fuck shouldn't i do this. The choice is yours. You wanna make a living from playing video games? Do it. Make it happen. Be a professional and learn everyday. Get audio books to better yourself, use the internet to learn. Knowledge is power. You should start with Steven Pressfield "Do The Work". It will give you knowledge about aversion and how you are exhibiting those traits right now.

If you are just playing video games for fun. Then why the fuck are you here bringing people down that want to make shit happen? Who gives a fuck if they have an idea and take steps to achieve and fail? Why does that affect you? Why are you putting energy into discouraging? You should be putting your energy into realizing your dreams not discouraging others dreams.

If you get discouraged from doing your dreams because someone talks bad about it, then you obviously don't think enough of it. Also, he's trying to sell an idea, not implement him itself. Laying down facts shouldn't discourage someone if they really want to make it happen, because they'll figure out a way around it.

Anyways, you sound way too much like a motivational speaker or trying to act like the guy who will stick up for the idealist. This isn't just people trying to shit on the guys dream. We're just trying to tell him what's wrong and why what he specifically suggested won't work. If he wants to get the community to support him, he needs to convince everyone that it'll work. Stop talking like we're just shitting on someone's dream, we're not. Also, please don't try to promote the idea that if you work hard enough you can do anything, because that's definitely not true in the real world.

We could get blackfogger to run it! I hear he is really good with money.

winners get to find out the collaboration of people that make up SKILL_DETECTOR

enigma already mentioned the reasons we can't do it right now; that's not to say it won't happen later, but all it boils down to right now is that we don't have enough staff to run it (one person volunteering to admin it is not nearly enough), program it (someone mentioned "programmers"; it's JUST enigma) and we're unable to form the prize pool as of yet. It's just not feasible to run a tournament right now.

If you want to keep running ideas, feel free, but without a realistic prize pool, honestly, it's incredibly difficult to build a tournament around it where people will play and care (example, CEVO, right now). Not to mention we really, really, really don't have the staff to run it.

I guess I should've elaborated. I meant who plays TF2 for prizes at all? I just think if you want prizes, it shouldn't be money, especially since the majority of players who'd participate in this league would be ESEA players, so it'd be difficult to convince them to cough up more money for another league. (Unless the plan is to get the prize money from a different source, which I can't see happening.)