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AG Supports CEVO in Expanded League
211
#211
eXtelevision
-3 Frags +

I think a free division for CEVO would be great. Maybe make it a ladder format so team stability isn't an issue. Could even have "seasons" that run concurrent to the other leagues. Top team in the free ladder division gets paid entry into neXt season of pay division.

I think a free division for CEVO would be great. Maybe make it a ladder format so team stability isn't an issue. Could even have "seasons" that run concurrent to the other leagues. Top team in the free ladder division gets paid entry into neXt season of pay division.
212
#212
7 Frags +
AllealThe reason UGC is low level is because UGC is free. Other free leagues and divisions will be just the same.

*cough* ETF2L *cough*

[quote=Alleal]
The reason UGC is low level is because UGC is free. Other free leagues and divisions will be just the same.[/quote]

*cough* ETF2L *cough*
213
#213
-4 Frags +
eXtineI think a free division for CEVO would be great. Maybe make it a ladder format so team stability isn't an issue. Could even have "seasons" that run concurrent to the other leagues. Top team in the free ladder division gets paid entry into neXt season of pay division.

can't wait to see iT not pay for anything

[quote=eXtine]I think a free division for CEVO would be great. Maybe make it a ladder format so team stability isn't an issue. Could even have "seasons" that run concurrent to the other leagues. Top team in the free ladder division gets paid entry into neXt season of pay division.[/quote]
can't wait to see iT not pay for anything
214
#214
1 Frags +
hookyeXtineI think a free division for CEVO would be great. Maybe make it a ladder format so team stability isn't an issue. Could even have "seasons" that run concurrent to the other leagues. Top team in the free ladder division gets paid entry into neXt season of pay division.can't wait to see iT not pay for anything

Solution: make the free divisions not have any prizes except for qualification into higher divisions. After all, there's a difference between "amateur" and "professional".

LangeDoes a web dev with some time to spare want to cross reference the STEAM_IDs of all rostered UGC players with all rostered ESEA players? How much of an overlap is there? Is UGC *really* a feed league to the paid leagues? If so, then I think CEVO implementing fees across the board is okay. If not, then maybe we do need to consider a free option for CEVO.
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UGC would probably be willing to turn over their STEAM_ID data pretty willingly to help create a metric like this. A scraper would have to be written for ESEA, as they have no API. This is outside the scope of my abilities, but maybe someone else can tackle it.

I was planning on working on a project like this. If I could have access to a UGC API (which supposedly hasn't been released yet), it would be much easier to work on.

[quote=hooky][quote=eXtine]I think a free division for CEVO would be great. Maybe make it a ladder format so team stability isn't an issue. Could even have "seasons" that run concurrent to the other leagues. Top team in the free ladder division gets paid entry into neXt season of pay division.[/quote]
can't wait to see iT not pay for anything[/quote]
Solution: make the free divisions not have any prizes except for qualification into higher divisions. After all, there's a difference between "amateur" and "professional".

[quote=Lange]Does a web dev with some time to spare want to cross reference the STEAM_IDs of all rostered UGC players with all rostered ESEA players? How much of an overlap is there? Is UGC *really* a feed league to the paid leagues? If so, then I think CEVO implementing fees across the board is okay. If not, then maybe we do need to consider a free option for CEVO.

[spoiler]UGC would probably be willing to turn over their STEAM_ID data pretty willingly to help create a metric like this. A scraper would have to be written for ESEA, as they have no API. This is outside the scope of my abilities, but maybe someone else can tackle it.[/spoiler][/quote]
I was planning on working on a project like this. If I could have access to a UGC API (which supposedly hasn't been released yet), it would be much easier to work on.
215
#215
5 Frags +

There is already a free NA league to play in. Don't really need a secondary option. Look at twl and old cevo, rip ugcs only competition.

There is already a free NA league to play in. Don't really need a secondary option. Look at twl and old cevo, rip ugcs only competition.
216
#216
0 Frags +
RRPAllealThe reason UGC is low level is because UGC is free. Other free leagues and divisions will be just the same.
*cough* ETF2L *cough*

*unless there's a vacuum in the space a dominate league would be. So as long as their is a paid alternative, UGC and other free NA leagues will stay low skill.

[quote=RRP][quote=Alleal]
The reason UGC is low level is because UGC is free. Other free leagues and divisions will be just the same.[/quote]

*cough* ETF2L *cough*[/quote]
*unless there's a vacuum in the space a dominate league would be. So as long as their is a paid alternative, UGC and other free NA leagues will stay low skill.
217
#217
3 Frags +

Perhaps instead of a free division they should host events everyone can participate in freely. It wouldn't add an unnecessary burden of managing another division and allow people to give them a try.

Perhaps instead of a free division they should host events everyone can participate in freely. It wouldn't add an unnecessary burden of managing another division and allow people to give them a try.
218
#218
Tip of the Hats
14 Frags +

(Posted in the wrong thread before, whoops)

With the help of Ctrl+f Muffin and Marxist, I was able to obtain a list of STEAM_IDs with the following criteria:

ESEA

  • On a current roster for this season
  • League fees paid

UGC

  • On a current roster for this season
  • Team status is "ready"

---[ Data ]----------

The data is presented in this spreadsheet.

ESEA STEAM_IDs were scraped by Ctrl+f Muffin using this python script.

UGC STEAM_IDs were copy/pasted from the roster lists.

---[ Analysis ]----------

There are 596 total paid players in ESEA at the moment, across all divisions. For UGC, there are 1778 players in their 6s divisions.

Of these players, 136 of them are participating in both ESEA and UGC.

This means that 22.8% of ESEA's current playerbase is also participating in UGC 6s. Or, in other words, 7.6% of UGC's 6s playerbase is participating in ESEA.

To put it in perspective, roughly one fifth of paid players in ESEA right now are also on an active UGC 6s roster. To me, this seems like a tremendous amount of overlap, and is a strong indicator that, despite the entry fee, UGC is a gateway to ESEA (and potentially CEVO as well, should they also implement an entry fee).

---[ Caveats ]----------

I could not obtain rosters for previous seasons of UGC. That means that I can only see the overlap as a snapshot in time. I can't see what players have "graduated" from UGC and now are only playing in ESEA. This missing figure is arguably the most important one to know, so take this measurement with a grain of salt.

While I tried to narrow down the list of players to only those who were "paid" or on an active roster, it is likely that more than a few "roster riders" who don't actually play in matches were included in these results.

(Posted in the wrong thread before, whoops)

With the help of Ctrl+f Muffin and Marxist, I was able to obtain a list of STEAM_IDs with the following criteria:

[b]ESEA[/b]
[list]
[*] On a current roster for this season
[*] League fees paid
[/list]

[b]UGC[/b]
[list]
[*] On a current roster for this season
[*] Team status is "ready"
[/list]

[b]---[ [u]Data[/u] ]----------[/b]

The data is presented in [url=https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6089084/Research/UGC%20ESEA%20Crossreferece/UGC_ESEA_Crossreference.xlsx]this spreadsheet[/url].

ESEA STEAM_IDs were scraped by Ctrl+f Muffin using [url=https://github.com/jingram3/esea-steamid/blob/master/esea.py]this python script[/url].

UGC STEAM_IDs were copy/pasted from the [url=http://www.ugcleague.com/rosters_tf26.cfm?division=56]roster lists[/url].

[b]---[ [u]Analysis[/u] ]----------[/b]

There are [b]596[/b] total paid players in ESEA at the moment, across all divisions. For UGC, there are [b]1778[/b] players in their 6s divisions.

Of these players, [b]136[/b] of them are participating in both ESEA and UGC.

This means that [b]22.8%[/b] of ESEA's current playerbase is also participating in UGC 6s. Or, in other words, [b]7.6%[/b] of UGC's 6s playerbase is participating in ESEA.

To put it in perspective, roughly [b]one fifth[/b] of paid players in ESEA right now are also on an active UGC 6s roster. To me, this seems like a tremendous amount of overlap, and is a strong indicator that, despite the entry fee, UGC is a gateway to ESEA (and potentially CEVO as well, should they also implement an entry fee).

[b]---[ [u]Caveats[/u] ]----------[/b]

I could not obtain rosters for previous seasons of UGC. That means that I can only see the overlap as a snapshot in time. I can't see what players have "graduated" from UGC and now are only playing in ESEA. This missing figure is arguably the most important one to know, so take this measurement with a grain of salt.

While I tried to narrow down the list of players to only those who were "paid" or on an active roster, it is likely that more than a few "roster riders" who don't actually play in matches were included in these results.
219
#219
8 Frags +
Lange---[ Analysis ]----------

There are 596 total paid players in ESEA at the moment, across all divisions. For UGC, there are 1778 players in their 6s divisions.

Of these players, 136 of them are participating in both ESEA and UGC.

This means that 22.8% of ESEA's current playerbase is also participating in UGC 6s. Or, in other words, 7.6% of UGC's 6s playerbase is participating in ESEA.

To put it in perspective, roughly one fifth of paid players in ESEA right now are also on an active UGC 6s roster. To me, this seems like a tremendous amount of overlap, and is a strong indicator that, despite the entry fee, UGC is a gateway to ESEA (and potentially CEVO as well, should they also implement an entry fee).

By my counts (querying the DB directly) UGC has 1,829 players in NA 6s (out of 2,601 in total).
Of the NA players we have 150 in ESEA. That is 8.2% of UGC 6s players are in ESEA (or 25.2% of ESEA players are in UGC 6v6). This is our biggest 6s season yet with roughly 250 teams currently still in active status.

Also for HL we have 3,605 players in NA (out of 6,189 total). Within that subset we have 190 in ESEA. So thats 5.3% of UGC HL in ESEA (or 32% of ESEA in UGC HL).

Also, of the 596 ESEA players, 570 (96%) of them have been listed on a UGC roster at some point since 2007.

If you can provide a list of ESEA players in prior seasons I can assist with the data on the UGC side.

[quote=Lange][b]---[ [u]Analysis[/u] ]----------[/b]

There are [b]596[/b] total paid players in ESEA at the moment, across all divisions. For UGC, there are [b]1778[/b] players in their 6s divisions.

Of these players, [b]136[/b] of them are participating in both ESEA and UGC.

This means that [b]22.8%[/b] of ESEA's current playerbase is also participating in UGC 6s. Or, in other words, [b]7.6%[/b] of UGC's 6s playerbase is participating in ESEA.

To put it in perspective, roughly [b]one fifth[/b] of paid players in ESEA right now are also on an active UGC 6s roster. To me, this seems like a tremendous amount of overlap, and is a strong indicator that, despite the entry fee, UGC is a gateway to ESEA (and potentially CEVO as well, should they also implement an entry fee).
[/quote]

By my counts (querying the DB directly) UGC has 1,829 players in NA 6s (out of 2,601 in total).
Of the NA players we have 150 in ESEA. That is 8.2% of UGC 6s players are in ESEA (or 25.2% of ESEA players are in UGC 6v6). This is our biggest 6s season yet with roughly 250 teams currently still in active status.

Also for HL we have 3,605 players in NA (out of 6,189 total). Within that subset we have 190 in ESEA. So thats 5.3% of UGC HL in ESEA (or 32% of ESEA in UGC HL).

Also, of the 596 ESEA players, 570 (96%) of them have been listed on a UGC roster at some point since 2007.

If you can provide a list of ESEA players in prior seasons I can assist with the data on the UGC side.
220
#220
-28 Frags +

cool!

cool!
221
#221
18 Frags +

stop shitposting on old threads please :)

stop shitposting on old threads please :)
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