Do you even read the articles you post

Literally the first paragraph

“This didn’t seem like a transgender issue to staff &#8212 someone who was ‘identifying’ as a woman,” Seattle Parks and Recreation Communications Manager David Takami told me via email. “We have guidelines that allow transgender individuals to use restrooms and locker rooms consistent with their gender identity.”

At around 5:30 p.m. on Feb. 8, an adult went into the locker room to change. Takami says that at “no time did he verbally ‘identify’ as female,” nor did he request to be treated as transgender."

Once again in the second article, "The man apparently gave no indication, physical, verbal, or otherwise that he identifies or lives as a woman."

I'm not sure if you read my previous post. Here is a quote from it:

Basically what I'm saying is by changing laws or allowing "legitimate" transgender individuals to enter either bathroom of their choice you open up a can of worms to those that may not even remotely be transgender and might be completely straight pervert individuals.

Although a "transgender" person might not be at directly fault, the laws in some states which allow either sex to enter either bathroom are problematic and difficult or impossible to enforce.

http://www.vox.com/cards/transgender-myths-fiction-facts/transgender-bathroom-bills

This page in itself does a pretty good job debunking your theory.

I don't need any debunking when I have already provided two sources in just a couple of minutes, which show the issues with these transgender laws regarding bathroom sharing.

You think thats bad, look at this!

http://www.mizozo.com/world/12/2010/03/anne-marie-o-loughlin-female-rapist-found-guilty-o....html

Clearly we can't allow women in to the women's bathroom either, to prevent this sort of thing from happening!

won't anyone think of the women????

here's the very simple problem with that line of thinking: there is ZERO proof that any of the perverts you are paranoid about exist or will abuse transgendered peoples rights. you are arguing that a massive group of people shouldn't be allowed basic human decency on the theoretical off chance that someone abuses that decency. do you really not understand how incredibly stupid and reductive that thinking is?

Rape is rape, doesn't matter who does it. There are same sex creeps, opposite sex creeps, transgender creeps etc. I don't think anyone is arguing that same sex individuals are incapable of sexually abusing or raping another individual.

A man showering in a women's bathroom with his junk hanging out is a totally separate issue. Are you saying you are cool with that, and that the majority of women would find it acceptable and be like oh no big deal that guy over there with a raging erection, yea I'm fine I'll just continue dressing here in the corner as he looks over at me.

if you think perverts and rapists are going to just not enter bathrooms no matter what transgender laws exist you're seriously kidding yourself & if you seriously cared about victims of sexual assault you wouldn't be bring them up as a rhetorical gotcha against a group that's more statistically likely to be raped in the first place. do you think bathrooms forcing trans people into the bathroom that corresponds with their sex assigned to them at birth wouldn't be difficult to enforce, either?

it's kind of telling that you choose to ignore actual statistics in favor of cherry picked stories, none of which were committed by a trans person in the first place and rely on completely hypothetical situations as the basis for your arguments. do you think an entire group of people should be punished on the off chance that someone might do a bad thing when they go to pee? do you not see how stupid that is?

That follows the same liberal logic as the gun free zone signs, that criminals respect the law. That is not at all my point, that its possible to stop sexual assault or rape.

My point is there needs to be a clear definition of what is considered acceptable so those breaking the law can be prosecuted by the definition of the law. When transgender people are put into the equation defining what is lawful and unlawful can be quite difficult.

lol its already pretty simple if youre not a fucking retard its not like crossdressing is a free ticket to legal sexual assault town population whoever is in this bathroom im going into

It's simple is it, then please provide a clear and concise answer regarding if it is acceptable for a man to shower in a women's locker room with his junk hanging out (both in the case of him identifying as a transgender women, and as a straight man).

uh no? cause he is a straight man that has his dong out are you fucking simple

and if theyre a transwoman then it completely depends on the people in the shower with them

regardless i dont think that would ever happen ever except in dollarlayer land where going to the bathroom means youre a rapist

It would pretty easy actually to differentiate between an actual trans person and someone who just decided to pretend to be trans one day, yes. Courts debate intent all the time, and being trans is a choice that affects your entire life in evident ways that you would be able to show in court

Please actually read!

By both cases I mean 2 scenarios.

1) Is it ok for a biological but legitimately transgendered man that identifies as a women to shower with his junk hanging out inside a women's locker room?

2) Is it ok if a man that is not transgendered to shower in a women's locker room with his junk hanging out.

"There are also nearly 700,000 transgender individuals in the US." Oh so not even 1 out of 700,000 people are ever going to do that?

1. no
2. no
3. not at a higher rate than cis people

wtf is even your argument? so 1/700,000 makes it a fucking giant problem, enough to not allow trans people to enter bathrooms of their preferred gender? how is "1/700,000" even an argument that just makes u look stupid because u seriously care that much about that 1 trans person who is a rapist, enough to ban ALL TRANS PEOPLE from using the restroom of their preferred gender, but not the hundreds of thousands of cis people who are rapists, and those who rape trans people. that's like saying some people use knives to stab people, so we should ban knives.

dollarlayer have u ever met a trans person irl ever before ever

that isn't how this works. what you are doing is presenting a difficult moral hypothetical as a way to invalidate the argument that trans people ought to have basic human rights. what you are also doing is ignoring the mountain of evidence already posted in this thread that trans people using the bathroom of their chosen gender is a net positive, especially in areas of sex crime.

finally, i'd like to specially address the complete fucking stupidity of this statement here:

your argument is that because a large number of trans people exist, it is inevitable that one of them would commit a crime using the fact that they are trans to assist them in committing this crime. do you live in the same fucking universe as everyone else? would you also like to make an argument that no one should be allowed to drive a car because someone will inevitably use that car to hit someone? how about arms and legs, should we all remove our arms and legs because someone might use their arm to attack someone? are you genuinely this blind to how impossibly idiotic your thinking is? how you even manage dress yourself in the morning is a legitimate mystery to me

I mean while it is very unlikely that a person will claim to be trans and use that to be a pervert, I can still also understand why it would make women uncomfortable in the showers and bathrooms.

I can also see a pervert using being trans to try to get out of trouble with the law when he may actually not be trans...

I personally can care less but I see both sides of the argument as reasonable.

Well I'm encouraged that you seem to have some idea of what is acceptable and not acceptable in a restroom. And I agree with you regarding 1&2.

I believe however if transgender people are allowed to use either bathroom they need to have their rights clearly defined so they do not overstep whats allowed, and so they do not inconvenience or cause mental trauma to others.

But I still have another issue, and that is one that I brought up previously and that is: can a "legitimate" transgender individual that bears does no resemblance to the women they identify as enter a women's bathroom on a school or public property?

Yes, in Asia I've had them try to hit on me and my straight friends before. Not a good experience. :(

Yea along the same lines as that, in Asia it was quite common for cleaning ladies to enter a bathroom with no notice while a man is there peeing or whatever. They would start moping the bathroom and sometimes even come quite close to you, to the point where you might feel like they are checking you out. This happened to me multiple times. After that happened the first time, if a women would enter, I'd usually zip up and go into a bathroom stall. Very annoying and an uncomfortable experience.

in reality if a rape were to happen in that fashion it would probably some random dude who walks into the bathroom even though the law did not allow him to, if hes going to rape someone i dont think he cares about the "which bathroom should i be in" law

were u in a bathroom

http://i.imgur.com/Njwfw6h.png

With the transexual individual I was not at a bathroom, just at a hotel and at a 7-11. See above regarding my other experiences with opposite genders in the bathroom, I didn't want to double post so I added it.

do you seriously think a non-passing trans person would try to go into the bathroom in the first place and completely disregard their own safety what the fuck

Can a cis women that looks like a dude enter a woman's bathroom? You are grasping at straws here

I do. On very rare occasions obviously, but it has happened and I linked a couple news articles on the previous page.

cleaning ladies confirmed for evil transgender bathroom rapists