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cp_cardinal (5CP)
1
#1
cp_sunshine, cp_reckoner
0 Frags +

cp_cardinal_b2

Nice to see you all again. Reckoner's coming along - a new, improved beta version came out for i58/etf2l, and Sunshine's been officialized... so I think it's time for a new project.

Cardinal is a 5cp control point map taking place across a large military base "disguised" with a commercial agency's façade. Positioned in a tactically advanced position with nods to Cold War preparation and protection, only one team can own this base - and you'd best hope it's yours!

Focusing around height differences, unusual route arrangements, and a unique layout, Cardinal is a lot of concepts you're simultaneously familiar and unfamiliar with - creating a distinctly novel gameplay experience.

>> Download Beta 2 here! <<

Make sure to refresh your texture cache (by changing to a map that does not use frontline assets, or by restarting the game) before playing this version. Other maps (such as Cardinal b1) which have the old incorrectly formatted Frontline models will cause the texture cache to incorrectly render this map. Loading this map upon game launch will work just fine - just don't load this map while playing a map with the old Frontline assets.

Help provided from:
The Frontline Team, for assets and creative direction
b4nny, for controlled competitive testing and prototype assistance
Dr. Spud, for ivy models
UEAKCrash, for creative direction
saam, for testing assistance

Old versions:

b1a
b1
a3
a2
a1a

Screenshots:

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171529_1-jpg.43786/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171541_1-jpg.43787/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171502_1-jpg.43788/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171547_1-jpg.43789/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171558_1-jpg.43790/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171608_1-jpg.43791/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171515_1-jpg.43792/

[h]cp_cardinal_b2[/h]

Nice to see you all again. Reckoner's coming along - a new, improved beta version came out for i58/etf2l, and Sunshine's been officialized... so I think it's time for a new project.

Cardinal is a 5cp control point map taking place across a large military base "disguised" with a commercial agency's façade. Positioned in a tactically advanced position with nods to Cold War preparation and protection, only one team can own this base - and you'd best hope it's yours!

Focusing around height differences, unusual route arrangements, and a unique layout, Cardinal is a lot of concepts you're simultaneously familiar and unfamiliar with - creating a distinctly novel gameplay experience.

>> [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/cardinal.2425/download?version=8032]Download Beta 2 here![/url] <<

Make sure to refresh your texture cache (by changing to a map that does not use frontline assets, or by restarting the game) before playing this version. Other maps (such as Cardinal b1) which have the old incorrectly formatted Frontline models will cause the texture cache to incorrectly render this map. Loading this map upon game launch will work just fine - just don't load this map while playing a map with the old Frontline assets.

Help provided from:
The Frontline Team, for assets and creative direction
b4nny, for controlled competitive testing and prototype assistance
Dr. Spud, for ivy models
UEAKCrash, for creative direction
saam, for testing assistance

Old versions:

[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/cardinal.2425/download?version=6444]b1a[/url]
[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/cardinal.2425/download?version=6439]b1[/url]
[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/cardinal.2425/download?version=5846]a3[/url]
[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/cardinal.2425/download?version=5335]a2[/url]
[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/cardinal.2425/download?version=4988]a1a[/url]

Screenshots:
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171529_1-jpg.43786/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171541_1-jpg.43787/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171502_1-jpg.43788/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171547_1-jpg.43789/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171558_1-jpg.43790/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171608_1-jpg.43791/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20170221171515_1-jpg.43792/[/img]
2
#2
59 Frags +

Really like the cozy evening skybox and the cold war esque design, haven't flown about on it just yet but I am a big fan of sunshine and reckoner so high hopes for this one.

Really like the cozy evening skybox and the cold war esque design, haven't flown about on it just yet but I am a big fan of sunshine and reckoner so high hopes for this one.
3
#3
15 Frags +

aesthetically I LOVE it

hope we can get some playtests going because the layout is very intriguing

aesthetically I LOVE it

hope we can get some playtests going because the layout is very intriguing
4
#4
19 Frags +

Wow once those textures are done this map is going to look really beautiful

Wow once those textures are done this map is going to look really beautiful
5
#5
6 Frags +

looks good

https://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/emoticons/v1/64138/2.0

looks good [img]https://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/emoticons/v1/64138/2.0[/img]
6
#6
5 Frags +
BrenReally like the cozy evening skybox
[quote=Bren]Really like the cozy evening skybox[/quote]
7
#7
5 Frags +

Found a bug for ya
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736648820
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736648872
hopefully its just my game being buggy but better safe than sorry

Other than that i love the map so far and am excited to see how it plays out

Found a bug for ya
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736648820
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736648872
hopefully its just my game being buggy but better safe than sorry

Other than that i love the map so far and am excited to see how it plays out
8
#8
cp_sunshine, cp_reckoner
12 Frags +
KeeshFound a bug for ya
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736648820
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736648872
hopefully its just my game being buggy but better safe than sorry

Other than that i love the map so far and am excited to see how it plays out

Oh whoops, lol. My bad. Thanks for pointing it out. Always some sort of funky bug on first releases... will quickly patch that out with an a1a. Incoming in like 15 min.

[quote=Keesh]Found a bug for ya
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736648820
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736648872
hopefully its just my game being buggy but better safe than sorry

Other than that i love the map so far and am excited to see how it plays out[/quote]

Oh whoops, lol. My bad. Thanks for pointing it out. Always some sort of funky bug on first releases... will quickly patch that out with an a1a. Incoming in like 15 min.
9
#9
31 Frags +

Awesome to see the Frontline Update assets being used

Awesome to see the Frontline Update assets being used
10
#10
7 Frags +

I Know you don't want to force it on the community, but I really hope this plays out well and provides freshness as well as competitive flow so we can maybe see it added to the leagues, early days yet though.

I Know you don't want to force it on the community, but I really hope this plays out well and provides freshness as well as competitive flow so we can maybe see it added to the leagues, early days yet though.
11
#11
58 Frags +

As Phi mentioned in the OP, this map is a collaboration between her and myself. I have been extremely impressed with both cp_sunshine and cp_reckoner so when phi was the one to answer my pleas to work closely with a mapper to build the next great 5cp map I couldn't have been happier. I was once again blown away at how she was able to turn my messy sketches and vague ramblings into the beautiful map we have have today. And it's only going to get better.

Our goal with this map is to develop it to the point that it plays up to the standards you would expect from any other classic 5CP map. Eventually, having the map be league-ready, maybe even official ready would be a dream come true. In this partnership Phi is gonna be the map making mastermind and I will be handling a lot of the extra stuff like contributing the initial layout, promoting the map, organizing and running playtests and offering my competitive insights. Of course, we will need feedback from everyone in the community so please leave any and all feedback here.

I will be running regular playtests which I'll be coordinating on my stream, the first of which will be tonight. See you there.

As Phi mentioned in the OP, this map is a collaboration between her and myself. I have been extremely impressed with both cp_sunshine and cp_reckoner so when phi was the one to answer my pleas to work closely with a mapper to build the next great 5cp map I couldn't have been happier. I was once again blown away at how she was able to turn my messy sketches and vague ramblings into the beautiful map we have have today. And it's only going to get better.

Our goal with this map is to develop it to the point that it plays up to the standards you would expect from any other classic 5CP map. Eventually, having the map be league-ready, maybe even official ready would be a dream come true. In this partnership Phi is gonna be the map making mastermind and I will be handling a lot of the extra stuff like contributing the initial layout, promoting the map, organizing and running playtests and offering my competitive insights. Of course, we will need feedback from everyone in the community so please leave any and all feedback here.

I will be running regular playtests which I'll be coordinating on my stream, the first of which will be tonight. See you there.
12
#12
3 Frags +

The map looks great visually, however I see a lot of flaws which could make the map really stalemate-y and not fun to play. I'll try and review this map soon to point out what I mean (if there isn't any changes to it by then)

Also, to make this post not completely pointless, here is a texture bug under the second point
http://imgur.com/a/c3tjp
This is dx8, I haven't checked dx9 yet.

The map looks great visually, however I see a lot of flaws which could make the map really stalemate-y and not fun to play. I'll try and review this map soon to point out what I mean (if there isn't any changes to it by then)

Also, to make this post not completely pointless, here is a texture bug under the second point
http://imgur.com/a/c3tjp
This is dx8, I haven't checked dx9 yet.
13
#13
5 Frags +

Very Cool. Ran around on it a little and didn't see anything glaringly terrible. Big fan of Reckoner and Sunshine, looking forward to this maps development!

Very Cool. Ran around on it a little and didn't see anything glaringly terrible. Big fan of Reckoner and Sunshine, looking forward to this maps development!
14
#14
3 Frags +
b4nnyAs Phi mentioned in the OP, this map is a collaboration between her and myself. I have been extremely impressed with both cp_sunshine and cp_reckoner so when phi was the one to answer my pleas to work closely with a mapper to build the next great 5cp map I couldn't have been happier. I was once again blown away at how she was able to turn my messy sketches and vague ramblings into the beautiful map we have have today. And it's only going to get better.

Our goal with this map is to develop it to the point that it plays up to the standards you would expect from any other classic 5CP map. Eventually, having the map be league-ready, maybe even official ready would be a dream come true. In this partnership Phi is gonna be the map making mastermind and I will be handling a lot of the extra stuff like contributing the initial layout, promoting the map, organizing and running playtests and offering my competitive insights. Of course, we will need feedback from everyone in the community so please leave any and all feedback here.

I will be running regular playtests which I'll be coordinating on my stream, the first of which will be tonight. See you there.

Just had a play around on it and trying to double mix on it tomorrow, from what I've seen I really like 2nd, defending it aggressively with scouts on the high ground encourages skill as you have hoodoos that you can easily be knocked off of, which frees up pushing off last but allows for forward/passive holds. 1 or two sniper sight lines that could be problematic, and thinking from a medic's pov the upper/lower levels inside could either encourage team coordination or make it a pain in the ass. Ample backcap spots which I'm sure will speed up the game, I can tell the main inclination of this map is to reward skill, which is very promising from such an early phase map, very very promising.

Edit: here is the sniper sightline, not sure if this was added for the same reason as badlands balcony, but the balcony seems like a good position for the combo to be and well, can be easily peeked by snipers
http://s31.postimg.org/fk8n8j1vf/dog.jpg

[quote=b4nny]As Phi mentioned in the OP, this map is a collaboration between her and myself. I have been extremely impressed with both cp_sunshine and cp_reckoner so when phi was the one to answer my pleas to work closely with a mapper to build the next great 5cp map I couldn't have been happier. I was once again blown away at how she was able to turn my messy sketches and vague ramblings into the beautiful map we have have today. And it's only going to get better.

Our goal with this map is to develop it to the point that it plays up to the standards you would expect from any other classic 5CP map. Eventually, having the map be league-ready, maybe even official ready would be a dream come true. In this partnership Phi is gonna be the map making mastermind and I will be handling a lot of the extra stuff like contributing the initial layout, promoting the map, organizing and running playtests and offering my competitive insights. Of course, we will need feedback from everyone in the community so please leave any and all feedback here.

I will be running regular playtests which I'll be coordinating on my stream, the first of which will be tonight. See you there.[/quote]

Just had a play around on it and trying to double mix on it tomorrow, from what I've seen I really like 2nd, defending it aggressively with scouts on the high ground encourages skill as you have hoodoos that you can easily be knocked off of, which frees up pushing off last but allows for forward/passive holds. 1 or two sniper sight lines that could be problematic, and thinking from a medic's pov the upper/lower levels inside could either encourage team coordination or make it a pain in the ass. Ample backcap spots which I'm sure will speed up the game, I can tell the main inclination of this map is to reward skill, which is very promising from such an early phase map, very very promising.

Edit: here is the sniper sightline, not sure if this was added for the same reason as badlands balcony, but the balcony seems like a good position for the combo to be and well, can be easily peeked by snipers
http://s31.postimg.org/fk8n8j1vf/dog.jpg
15
#15
cp_sunshine, cp_reckoner
10 Frags +

OP has been updated with a1a. Pretty much the only change is fixing the Hole In The Ground.

Thanks for all the nice comments and feedback so far!

OP has been updated with a1a. Pretty much the only change is fixing the Hole In The Ground.

Thanks for all the nice comments and feedback so far!
16
#16
6 Frags +

If I may put some of my feedback, first of all although I like the tank it is completely in the way of rollouts and should either be moved over or removed, also some of the battlements don't have very good vantage points to spam from and the map lacks a huge choke, which is good and bad I guess, my main issue though is the height of the map, both scouts pretty much need the winger to jump around. Also you should put a small healthy pack on second like there is on badlands spire so scouts can basher jump up from the back and get the health pack, otherwise there is no quick way to the point and you have to go around. Now for my positives, I rly like how there is many different pathways/routes so the game doesn't become a stalemate and how there are good entry and openings, this map has rly great back capping and flanking potential. For now this is all I can think of, but it looks like it has a really promising future.

Edit: Great rollout opportunity for demo on this map, but the soldiers rollouts could use some work, so far I have found the best rollout for demo is to start by jumping and strafing under the point and taking the lower door and grab the health pack inside, next shoot a sticky outside the right door and strafe around until you land on the platform behind the point and go walk in the door and take the health pack and then start charging your sticky and walk out the next door and u r at mid. So it is a pretty nice and easy rollout

If I may put some of my feedback, first of all although I like the tank it is completely in the way of rollouts and should either be moved over or removed, also some of the battlements don't have very good vantage points to spam from and the map lacks a huge choke, which is good and bad I guess, my main issue though is the height of the map, both scouts pretty much need the winger to jump around. Also you should put a small healthy pack on second like there is on badlands spire so scouts can basher jump up from the back and get the health pack, otherwise there is no quick way to the point and you have to go around. Now for my positives, I rly like how there is many different pathways/routes so the game doesn't become a stalemate and how there are good entry and openings, this map has rly great back capping and flanking potential. For now this is all I can think of, but it looks like it has a really promising future.

Edit: Great rollout opportunity for demo on this map, but the soldiers rollouts could use some work, so far I have found the best rollout for demo is to start by jumping and strafing under the point and taking the lower door and grab the health pack inside, next shoot a sticky outside the right door and strafe around until you land on the platform behind the point and go walk in the door and take the health pack and then start charging your sticky and walk out the next door and u r at mid. So it is a pretty nice and easy rollout
17
#17
0 Frags +
PhiCardinal is a 5cp control point map taking place across a large military base "disguised" with a commercial agency's façade. Positioned in a tactically advanced position with nods to Cold War preparation and protection, only one team can own this base - and you'd best hope it's yours!

Focusing around height differences, unusual route arrangements, and a unique layout, Cardinal is a lot of concepts you're simultaneously familiar and unfamiliar with - creating a distinctly novel gameplay experience.

If this gets put in the competitive map cycle, I think this is on the way to being my new favorite map. Can't wait. :D

[quote=Phi]
Cardinal is a 5cp control point map taking place across a large military base "disguised" with a commercial agency's façade. Positioned in a tactically advanced position with nods to Cold War preparation and protection, only one team can own this base - and you'd best hope it's yours!

Focusing around height differences, unusual route arrangements, and a unique layout, Cardinal is a lot of concepts you're simultaneously familiar and unfamiliar with - creating a distinctly novel gameplay experience.
[/quote]

If this gets put in the competitive map cycle, I think this is on the way to being my new favorite map. Can't wait. :D
18
#18
15 Frags +

Not sure how it might change depending on different graphics settings/configs, but the really bright skybox sun makes certain angles at mid painful to look at, in a way that usually affects the blue side much more than the red side:

http://i.imgur.com/sjAzhI4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/usxWleC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Hvpfgc0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/afwPDdP.jpg

This is with bloom off. Not the most common of angles but could be a real issue if you're trying to hit soldier jumping over you, etc. and get blinded by the skybox. Contrast with the cp_sunshine skybox, which is also bright but not as intrusive:

http://i.imgur.com/rbKJzGY.jpg

Not sure how it might change depending on different graphics settings/configs, but the really bright skybox sun makes certain angles at mid painful to look at, in a way that usually affects the blue side much more than the red side:

http://i.imgur.com/sjAzhI4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/usxWleC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Hvpfgc0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/afwPDdP.jpg

This is with bloom [i]off[/i]. Not the most common of angles but could be a real issue if you're trying to hit soldier jumping over you, etc. and get blinded by the skybox. Contrast with the cp_sunshine skybox, which is also bright but not as intrusive:

http://i.imgur.com/rbKJzGY.jpg
19
#19
2 Frags +

Looks like it has potential, i'm excited to see how it turns out.

Looks like it has potential, i'm excited to see how it turns out.
20
#20
cp_sunshine, cp_reckoner
17 Frags +
ZomaNot sure how it might change depending on different graphics settings/configs, but the really bright skybox sun makes certain angles at mid painful to look at, in a way that usually affects the blue side much more than the red side:

http://i.imgur.com/sjAzhI4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/usxWleC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Hvpfgc0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/afwPDdP.jpg

This is with bloom off. Not the most common of angles but could be a real issue if you're trying to hit soldier jumping over you, etc. and get blinded by the skybox. Contrast with the cp_sunshine skybox, which is also bright but not as intrusive:

http://i.imgur.com/rbKJzGY.jpg

Great point. I was using a default sun sprite but now I realize that this "default" sprite should be toned down massively to about the size of Sunshine's. Thank you for pointing this out.

[quote=Zoma]Not sure how it might change depending on different graphics settings/configs, but the really bright skybox sun makes certain angles at mid painful to look at, in a way that usually affects the blue side much more than the red side:

http://i.imgur.com/sjAzhI4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/usxWleC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Hvpfgc0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/afwPDdP.jpg

This is with bloom [i]off[/i]. Not the most common of angles but could be a real issue if you're trying to hit soldier jumping over you, etc. and get blinded by the skybox. Contrast with the cp_sunshine skybox, which is also bright but not as intrusive:

http://i.imgur.com/rbKJzGY.jpg[/quote]

Great point. I was using a default sun sprite but now I realize that this "default" sprite should be toned down massively to about the size of Sunshine's. Thank you for pointing this out.
21
#21
-3 Frags +

Can't wait for Valve to greenlight it when it's finished immediately bc b4nny was involved. /s
Jokes aside this is a promising looking map, hope this is as good a success as Reckoner and Sunshine were!

Can't wait for Valve to greenlight it when it's finished immediately bc b4nny was involved. /s
Jokes aside this is a promising looking map, hope this is as good a success as Reckoner and Sunshine were!
22
#22
0 Frags +

Not game breaking or anything but really got me ticking lol

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736711401

Not game breaking or anything but really got me ticking lol

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736711401
23
#23
5 Frags +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O1aD7Hr2o0

The tank on the right side doesn't interfere with the roamer's rollout. A couple things make some of the rollouts a bit awkward though:

There is a metal thing right above the door on the center of last. This makes jumping off the side of the door very tight, you constantly bump your head on it.
https://gyazo.com/8f6c2e1a0c0afa3b44f80a1d2a7a3222

This edge sticks out and you can someone get caught on it when jumping off the wall next to the dropdown.
https://gyazo.com/decbf61685934363c3842fc14b7dbf57
https://gyazo.com/9f8bbe0957a5282459d85e9e535cee5a

Map looks very cool so far, great work!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O1aD7Hr2o0

The tank on the right side doesn't interfere with the roamer's rollout. A couple things make some of the rollouts a bit awkward though:

There is a metal thing right above the door on the center of last. This makes jumping off the side of the door very tight, you constantly bump your head on it.
https://gyazo.com/8f6c2e1a0c0afa3b44f80a1d2a7a3222

This edge sticks out and you can someone get caught on it when jumping off the wall next to the dropdown.
https://gyazo.com/decbf61685934363c3842fc14b7dbf57
https://gyazo.com/9f8bbe0957a5282459d85e9e535cee5a

Map looks very cool so far, great work!
24
#24
4 Frags +

http://imgur.com/a/6hrti

In this alley on the RED side, walls #2 - 4 sometimes allow stickies and grenades to simply pass through them in some large spots and they fall into the negative space on the other side.

On the BLU side this only applies to walls 2 and 3. This doesn't not appear to have any effect on rockets.

http://imgur.com/a/qcKjn

You may have intended for this but I'm only posting it because the rest of the map seems to be completely devoid of standable edges like this. This edge exists on both BLU and RED lower lobby shutter doors.

http://imgur.com/a/6hrti

In this alley on the RED side, walls #2 - 4 sometimes allow stickies and grenades to simply pass through them in some large spots and they fall into the negative space on the other side.

On the BLU side this only applies to walls 2 and 3. This doesn't not appear to have any effect on rockets.

http://imgur.com/a/qcKjn

You may have intended for this but I'm only posting it because the rest of the map seems to be completely devoid of standable edges like this. This edge exists on both BLU and RED lower lobby shutter doors.
25
#25
8 Frags +

Great as always Phi, literally my favorite map dev.

Great as always Phi, literally my favorite map dev.
26
#26
-14 Frags +

inb4 this becomes the next cp_process PogChamp

inb4 this becomes the next cp_process PogChamp
27
#27
1 Frags +

Was not expecting the frontline assets. They're a nice addition!

Was not expecting the frontline assets. They're a nice addition!
28
#28
5 Frags +

good job, i really like the last point

you can get into the gaps between the wires on second

http://i.imgur.com/kJbmyA3.png

http://i.imgur.com/deSYC51.png

also

http://i.imgur.com/Rf1NruS.png

good job, i really like the last point

you can get into the gaps between the wires on second

[img]http://i.imgur.com/kJbmyA3.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/deSYC51.png[/img]

also
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Rf1NruS.png[/img]
29
#29
6 Frags +

kinda reminds me of DoD maps aesthetically, looking forward to this

kinda reminds me of DoD maps aesthetically, looking forward to this
30
#30
4 Frags +

I get this

CMaterialVar::GetVecValue: trying to get a vec value for $envmaptint which is of type 1

spammed in console when i load up the map, it doesnt happen on other maps so i assume it is an issue with cardinal.

Also last feels like it has too many entrances and would be hard to hold, but i would need to play test it to actually confirm or deny that.

edit: the console spam seems to only happen on 2nd points

I get this

CMaterialVar::GetVecValue: trying to get a vec value for $envmaptint which is of type 1

spammed in console when i load up the map, it doesnt happen on other maps so i assume it is an issue with cardinal.

Also last feels like it has too many entrances and would be hard to hold, but i would need to play test it to actually confirm or deny that.

edit: the console spam seems to only happen on 2nd points
1 2 3
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