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cp_reckoner (5CP)
1
#1
cp_sunshine, cp_reckoner
0 Frags +

cp_reckoner

Current version: RC3

DOWNLOAD RC3

Upvote this map on the Steam Workshop!
____________________________

Older versions:

rc2
rc1
b3a
b3
b2a
b2
b1a
a4
a3
a2a
a1b

Built carefully and deliberately over the course of multiple months.

Meant as an addition to the diminishing 6s competitive new map pool. I will be working with a joint effort between testing through various pug groups, tf.tv, and etf2l.

Anyone interested in helping further this project through any sort of layout analysis, asset creation, or general help is welcomed with open arms.

Overlays and metal textures designed by iiboharz.
Wet floor sign by Seba, phi, and iiboharz.
Japan pack made by Freyja and EArkham.
Two textures in the map made by Fubar.
Valve shipping containter edit made by Fantasmos and Bakscratch.
Skybox by YM.
Oceanic props part of the Bulletcrops pack.

Screenshots:

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20171129115546_1-jpg.67657/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161220133417_1-jpg.38303/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161220133453_1-jpg.38304/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161220133501_1-jpg.38305/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20171129115602_1-jpg.67658/

[h]cp_reckoner[/h]

Current version: [b]RC3[/b]

[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=12259]DOWNLOAD RC3[/url]

[url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=674719999]Upvote this map on the Steam Workshop![/url]
____________________________

Older versions:

[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=8400]rc2[/url]
[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=6564]rc1[/url]
[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=5983]b3a[/url]
[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=5211]b3[/url]
[url=http://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=3091]b2a[/url]
[url=http://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=2927]b2[/url]
[url=http://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=2547]b1a[/url]
[url=http://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=2187]a4[/url]
[url=http://tf2maps.net/resources/reckoner.974/download?version=1904]a3[/url]
[url=http://tf2maps.net/resources/reckoner.974/download?version=1471]a2a[/url]
[url=http://tf2maps.net/resources/reckoner.974/download?version=1390]a1b[/url]

Built carefully and deliberately over the course of multiple months.

Meant as an addition to the diminishing 6s competitive new map pool. I will be working with a joint effort between testing through various pug groups, tf.tv, and etf2l.

Anyone interested in helping further this project through any sort of layout analysis, asset creation, or general help is welcomed with open arms.

Overlays and metal textures designed by iiboharz.
Wet floor sign by Seba, phi, and iiboharz.
Japan pack made by Freyja and EArkham.
Two textures in the map made by Fubar.
Valve shipping containter edit made by Fantasmos and Bakscratch.
Skybox by YM.
Oceanic props part of the Bulletcrops pack.

Screenshots:

[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20171129115546_1-jpg.67657/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161220133417_1-jpg.38303/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161220133453_1-jpg.38304/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161220133501_1-jpg.38305/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20171129115602_1-jpg.67658/[/img]
2
#2
5 Frags +

is there a download so that we can actually run around on the map and possible play it? looks very cool

is there a download so that we can actually run around on the map and possible play it? looks very cool
3
#3
cp_sunshine, cp_reckoner
3 Frags +
lucrativeis there a download so that we can actually run around on the map and possible play it? looks very cool

oooops, my bad! Missed putting the link in the post, it's updated with a1b now.

[quote=lucrative]is there a download so that we can actually run around on the map and possible play it? looks very cool[/quote]

oooops, my bad! Missed putting the link in the post, it's updated with a1b now.
4
#4
1 Frags +

hell yes, been looking forward to that ravage mid re-purpose for a long time

hell yes, been looking forward to that ravage mid re-purpose for a long time
5
#5
0 Frags +

I'll download and take a look.

What kinds of feedback are you looking for? Usually I go around and find the annoying clipping issues, but that seems premature here. Would you say this is ready to play a pug or two on?

I'll download and take a look.

What kinds of feedback are you looking for? Usually I go around and find the annoying clipping issues, but that seems premature here. Would you say this is ready to play a pug or two on?
6
#6
cp_sunshine, cp_reckoner
6 Frags +

I'm mostly looking for straight-up layout feedback. The map's in its first alpha, there are bound to be issues as to, say: maybe a choke comes out in the wrong spot, maybe a route is too useless, a point's too hard to recap, etc. Stuff like that, essentially. It could be nice to see pugs on it but don't be too let down if it's not very smooth, as it's the first iteration.

I'm mostly looking for straight-up layout feedback. The map's in its first alpha, there are bound to be issues as to, say: maybe a choke comes out in the wrong spot, maybe a route is too useless, a point's too hard to recap, etc. Stuff like that, essentially. It could be nice to see pugs on it but don't be too let down if it's not very smooth, as it's the first iteration.
7
#7
3 Frags +

Fucking gorgeus!
I dunno if you looked at it but some ideas where written down in these 2 threads as "guidelines":
http://www.teamfortress.tv/28646/we-need-to-encourage-tf2-map-makers
http://www.teamfortress.tv/28714/lets-try-to-point-out-what-makes-a-good-6s-ma

Fucking gorgeus!
I dunno if you looked at it but some ideas where written down in these 2 threads as "guidelines":
http://www.teamfortress.tv/28646/we-need-to-encourage-tf2-map-makers
http://www.teamfortress.tv/28714/lets-try-to-point-out-what-makes-a-good-6s-ma
8
#8
0 Frags +

has anyone playtested maps with the point below high ground on mid? it seems like a good way to encourage gay passive mids but i could be completely wrong since ive never played a map like that

has anyone playtested maps with the point below high ground on mid? it seems like a good way to encourage gay passive mids but i could be completely wrong since ive never played a map like that
9
#9
1 Frags +

I mean, it was literally publicly released like ten minutes ago, so probably not

I mean, it was literally publicly released like ten minutes ago, so probably not
10
#10
1 Frags +
trashI mean, it was literally publicly released like ten minutes ago, so probably not

i mean any past maps with that mechanic (nite mentioned a cp_ravage?)

[quote=trash]I mean, it was literally publicly released like ten minutes ago, so probably not[/quote]

i mean any past maps with that mechanic (nite mentioned a cp_ravage?)
11
#11
cp_sunshine, cp_reckoner
10 Frags +
fatswimdudehas anyone playtested maps with the point below high ground on mid? it seems like a good way to encourage gay passive mids but i could be completely wrong since ive never played a map like that

Yukon used to be set up like that, point on the lowest ground under the bridge. Mids were played very passively but that's also because of the inability to jump onto the other side without committing completely (as the only way across were through the enclosed-roof bridge, or two cramped sideroutes.)

I've addressed the possibility of passive mids by offering a lot of space for teams to work with, the ground on either side of the point is much closer to the other than it was on Yukon. Should play faster.

[quote=fatswimdude]has anyone playtested maps with the point below high ground on mid? it seems like a good way to encourage gay passive mids but i could be completely wrong since ive never played a map like that[/quote]

Yukon used to be set up like that, point on the lowest ground under the bridge. Mids were played very passively but that's also because of the inability to jump onto the other side without committing completely (as the only way across were through the enclosed-roof bridge, or two cramped sideroutes.)

I've addressed the possibility of passive mids by offering a lot of space for teams to work with, the ground on either side of the point is much closer to the other than it was on Yukon. Should play faster.
12
#12
1 Frags +

Definetly going to be played this saturday, nice work Phi!

Definetly going to be played this saturday, nice work Phi!
13
#13
2 Frags +

just a heads up, capping the mid point doesnt reset the timer

fatswimdudei mean any past maps with that mechanic (nite mentioned a cp_ravage?)

oh, ravage is a mapmaker on tf2maps, he posted a really interesting mid and put it up for grabs so anyone could use it. phi's mid isn't exactly the same, but it shares a lot of elements

just a heads up, capping the mid point doesnt reset the timer

[quote=fatswimdude]i mean any past maps with that mechanic (nite mentioned a cp_ravage?)[/quote]

oh, ravage is a mapmaker on tf2maps, he posted a really interesting mid and put it up for grabs so anyone could use it. phi's mid isn't exactly the same, but it shares a lot of elements
14
#14
18 Frags +

Looks really cool and very polished actually from a quick glance. I'll arrange some pugs on it later this week.

Looks really cool and very polished actually from a quick glance. I'll arrange some pugs on it later this week.
15
#15
Tip of the Hats
13 Frags +

If anyone can get ahold of dango, it would be nice to get this map on pugme so we can playtest it.

If anyone can get ahold of dango, it would be nice to get this map on pugme so we can playtest it.
16
#16
2 Frags +

Another Phi 5CP map !

Another Phi 5CP map !
17
#17
2 Frags +

my first run though i can see how there might be massive sniper sightlines on mid and defending on second. otherwise, the last lobby reminds me of logjam, but larger which is good. and the mid looks a lot of fun to play

EDIT: i dont know if it was intentional, but you can stand on the lamps that are attached to the big tall pillar thingies at mid :]

my first run though i can see how there might be massive sniper sightlines on mid and defending on second. otherwise, the last lobby reminds me of logjam, but larger which is good. and the mid looks a lot of fun to play

EDIT: i dont know if it was intentional, but you can stand on the lamps that are attached to the big tall pillar thingies at mid :]
18
#18
0 Frags +

Looks like a better cp_banana, can't wait to try this out

fatswimdudehas anyone playtested maps with the point below high ground on mid? it seems like a good way to encourage gay passive mids but i could be completely wrong since ive never played a map like that

Yeah there are other maps that have this. Process comes to mind immediately but I know I have played other maps with it.

Looks like a better cp_banana, can't wait to try this out

[quote=fatswimdude]has anyone playtested maps with the point below high ground on mid? it seems like a good way to encourage gay passive mids but i could be completely wrong since ive never played a map like that[/quote]

Yeah there are other maps that have this. Process comes to mind immediately but I know I have played other maps with it.
19
#19
9 Frags +

Nice job phi
from walking around the map I have some things I want to discuss but I definitely think the map has a lot of potential, so grats, it's not often I can say that about an early alpha build map.

starting at mid

http://i.imgur.com/OSQt84W.jpg

Mid looks REALLY good from a first glance.
It obviously takes some inspiration from metalworks, yukon, and gullywash which I think is a good mix

http://imgur.com/wBr8Rr3.jpg

The low ground area seems like a really good area to push 6 into through which is cool but I don't think that will really be possible because there is another major entrance on the other side but I think it will still result in some pretty good 4 or 5 man dry/uber/number pushes nonetheless.

I think mids will generally play out to teams taking control of one side or fighting over one side similar to gullywash or process. It looks like every class has opportunities to control the space but it does seem to be scout favored for how open it is

http://i.imgur.com/xx8n3Mw.jpg

For this ramp area I'd be interested to see how the mid would play out with and without it because I think by removing it, you emphasize highground positioning a lot more in terms of medic and scouts because you can't quickly climb up

http://i.imgur.com/tSDlXYq.jpg

This room seems largely useless to me as I think it would be better served by adding a pack and small ramp up to the right outside on mid and I think the area you can push through from it is not really necessary.

http://i.imgur.com/N5cl85C.jpg

So the highground transition area makes the lowground transition largely irrelevant to me because the same positioning guards against both and I don't really think both are necessary because there is another good solid entrance to push through on the opposite side that needs a different set of positioning to hold properly w/o uber for most of the classes. I think it would be worth removing the house area and instead making the lowground transition area less low-ground and make it a solid choke (possibly similar to how process's mid->2nd choke is set up) would probably make the entrance a lot stronger and would cut down on the size of the map which I currently think is probably it's biggest problem(seriously everything is REALLY far away, I think mid and last could possibly be made smaller but I def think you should test this first, because larger map sizes tend to emphasize scouts and in a way snipers)

http://i.imgur.com/H9pwzEr.jpg

This area seems really awkward, it might be better to make a clearly defined upper / lower level which would also make pushing into 2nd from this area a lot easier because it would be harder to read the push

http://i.imgur.com/7UFE7VO.jpg

I think put a wall there instead of a railing to break up lobby a bit and also that sniper sight line (especially when defending) is ridiculous
other than that I think lobby seems fine, obviously given the distance from last to second and the size of last the point has to be pretty slow capping

This last certainly feels very large although I would say it's roughly similar in size to granary or process although the chokes are much bigger
The last seems very coldfront-esque which I think is fine given how it's laid out

I certainly want to play this map a few times just to see what pops out but I want to prompt some discussion especially about the maps size, there seems to be some dead/unimportant area which is a bit strange and the map seems a bit stretched (especially mid)

Nice job phi
from walking around the map I have some things I want to discuss but I definitely think the map has a lot of potential, so grats, it's not often I can say that about an early alpha build map.

starting at mid
[img]http://i.imgur.com/OSQt84W.jpg[/img]
Mid looks REALLY good from a first glance.
It obviously takes some inspiration from metalworks, yukon, and gullywash which I think is a good mix
[img]http://imgur.com/wBr8Rr3.jpg[/img]
The low ground area seems like a really good area to push 6 into through which is cool but I don't think that will really be possible because there is another major entrance on the other side but I think it will still result in some pretty good 4 or 5 man dry/uber/number pushes nonetheless.

I think mids will generally play out to teams taking control of one side or fighting over one side similar to gullywash or process. It looks like every class has opportunities to control the space but it does seem to be scout favored for how open it is

[img]http://i.imgur.com/xx8n3Mw.jpg[/img]
For this ramp area I'd be interested to see how the mid would play out with and without it because I think by removing it, you emphasize highground positioning a lot more in terms of medic and scouts because you can't quickly climb up

[img]http://i.imgur.com/tSDlXYq.jpg[/img]
This room seems largely useless to me as I think it would be better served by adding a pack and small ramp up to the right outside on mid and I think the area you can push through from it is not really necessary.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/N5cl85C.jpg[/img]
So the highground transition area makes the lowground transition largely irrelevant to me because the same positioning guards against both and I don't really think both are necessary because there is another good solid entrance to push through on the opposite side that needs a different set of positioning to hold properly w/o uber for most of the classes. I think it would be worth removing the house area and instead making the lowground transition area less low-ground and make it a solid choke (possibly similar to how process's mid->2nd choke is set up) would probably make the entrance a lot stronger and would cut down on the size of the map which I currently think is probably it's biggest problem(seriously everything is REALLY far away, I think mid and last could possibly be made smaller but I def think you should test this first, because larger map sizes tend to emphasize scouts and in a way snipers)

[img]http://i.imgur.com/H9pwzEr.jpg[/img]
This area seems really awkward, it might be better to make a clearly defined upper / lower level which would also make pushing into 2nd from this area a lot easier because it would be harder to read the push

[img]http://i.imgur.com/7UFE7VO.jpg[/img]

I think put a wall there instead of a railing to break up lobby a bit and also that sniper sight line (especially when defending) is ridiculous
other than that I think lobby seems fine, obviously given the distance from last to second and the size of last the point has to be pretty slow capping

This last certainly feels very large although I would say it's roughly similar in size to granary or process although the chokes are much bigger
The last seems very coldfront-esque which I think is fine given how it's laid out

I certainly want to play this map a few times just to see what pops out but I want to prompt some discussion especially about the maps size, there seems to be some dead/unimportant area which is a bit strange and the map seems a bit stretched (especially mid)
20
#20
21 Frags +

I added it to the pugme map rotation

I added it to the pugme map rotation
21
#21
14 Frags +

After talking with Phi, its really important that we don't play it once and just never again because previous versions were "bad." Phi is doing her hardest to make this a great map, of course there's going to be kinks in it, but it will be stronger because of this. She is really devoting a ton of time to this, also if you have feedback, make sure you actually post it instead of just being in your mumble saying, OH this doesn't work and having in depth discussions without doing anything to help out Phi.

After talking with Phi, its really important that we don't play it once and just never again because previous versions were "bad." Phi is doing her hardest to make this a great map, of course there's going to be kinks in it, but it will be stronger because of this. She is really devoting a ton of time to this, also if you have feedback, make sure you actually post it instead of just being in your mumble saying, OH this doesn't work and having in depth discussions without doing anything to help out Phi.
22
#22
2 Frags +

Seems like it could go places and be cool... but.
2nd seems really out of the way. actually took me a second to find it.
Map seems really cluttered right away. There are a ton of ramps that are a little overwhelming.
Last and Mid are really huge, and the entire thing seems a little too sniper friendly, though i can see some attempts to prevent this.
Good ideas, looks like it'll be an interesting map, and not really favoring any class too much.

Seems like it could go places and be cool... but.
2nd seems really out of the way. actually took me a second to find it.
Map seems really cluttered right away. There are a ton of ramps that are a little overwhelming.
Last and Mid are really huge, and the entire thing seems a little too sniper friendly, though i can see some attempts to prevent this.
Good ideas, looks like it'll be an interesting map, and not really favoring any class too much.
23
#23
8 Frags +

I like the way it looks initially, though I have some feedback.

Primarily, the map seems really big. It is hard to get a sense of scale because of the sharp differences in highground everywhere. So I feel very small on mid. Part of that is that, in going through the grassy area onto mid, there is a part where it chokes back up, then opens up again into the mid. The whole middle seems enormous, Yukon style big, and just on gut reaction I don't like that. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I suspect it will involve compressing the long distances between chokes and the area where the mid fights actually happen. Botmode's point about the room attached to mid with the larger healthpack feels right to me. Move that healthpack out to middle somewhere (talk about that in a second) and get rid of the room, foreshorten the grassy part and compressing the middle that way may be the best option.

Healthpack wise: middle is a bit of a pain. Half of the healthpacks can only be reached by scouts (on the crates) without damaging themselves. In addition medics straight up can't even get up there. Please don't put important areas out of the medic's reach. Half of the available health at a midfight can't be inaccessible to a medic, and I want to be able to get up there. Even if I never ever use them, all of our mids (except gullywash) are 100% completely medic accessible. For demomen, right now the only real option is to go into that chamber at middle to grab the health there. I don't know how many jumps the rollout will require, but I dont like forcing the demoman to disengage to grab health. Badlands does this, and retreating to house can absolutely be a mid killing move akin to losing your demoman for 10 seconds.

Picture time!

http://i.imgur.com/XNsUZea.jpg

This sightline is absolutely ridiculous. From that door, you can see SUPER far away, far enough that I suspect the sniper might even be hard to see if he is hiding his dot. In addition, from the offsensive (upper side) this is your view.

http://i.imgur.com/IWyGZbX.png

You have control over three separate doors from this one sightline, with the advantage of having a big health and ammo, and a place for your medic to hide around the corner and tank you/soldier to bait you. Any repush against that spot is GOING to bleed minimum one player. Badlands at least you can hug a wall and not get seen until you are basically on the point (and sniper is still REALLY good on 4th holds). This seems super excessive.

http://i.imgur.com/FJMRhDF.jpg

This is a potential solution to the issue. The issue with this is that it exacerbates the issue of players contesting 4th point (so red team on blue second) having a location with relative safe height advantage over the point. Pushing, this is a strong spot to spam onto point from, and will basically allow a demoman to lord over the lower exit and point with relative ease and defending, it is a highground past point that you basically have to contest before you can even think about capping. I think it should just be removed, or at least that door should be smaller or blocked in the same way that IT is on process. Another option is to move it to an angle looking at hut, away from the point.

http://i.imgur.com/wDv9v7B.jpg

Another absurdly strong sniper sightline. I'm not sure how much of grass you have vision over, but I suspect it to be a significant amount. In addition, having control over the main door, exit onto point (kindof) and half of the healthpack room is super strong.This spot is also so far away from all of those doors that there is no real defense except a counter sniper. I mentioned foreshortening this area anyway, and I think that would take away a lot of the issues of the area in general.

http://i.imgur.com/d9dqLHg.png

I can see this getting hella abused, and would probably be better off not accessible (i.e. cafe on sunshine). I agree with botmode though, it would be nice to playtest a version with and without this area, perhaps later on in the process so that other issues with the map don't detract from focusing on this particular change.

Overall, very strong early alpha. It seems like it will be a fun map to playtest and I would love to play in some high open+ pugs with smart players to determine what does and doesn't work.

I like the way it looks initially, though I have some feedback.

Primarily, the map seems really big. It is hard to get a sense of scale because of the sharp differences in highground everywhere. So I feel very small on mid. Part of that is that, in going through the grassy area onto mid, there is a part where it chokes back up, then opens up again into the mid. The whole middle seems enormous, Yukon style big, and just on gut reaction I don't like that. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I suspect it will involve compressing the long distances between chokes and the area where the mid fights actually happen. Botmode's point about the room attached to mid with the larger healthpack feels right to me. Move that healthpack out to middle somewhere (talk about that in a second) and get rid of the room, foreshorten the grassy part and compressing the middle that way may be the best option.

Healthpack wise: middle is a bit of a pain. Half of the healthpacks can only be reached by scouts (on the crates) without damaging themselves. In addition medics straight up can't even get up there. Please don't put important areas out of the medic's reach. Half of the available health at a midfight can't be inaccessible to a medic, and I want to be able to get up there. Even if I never ever use them, all of our mids (except gullywash) are 100% completely medic accessible. For demomen, right now the only real option is to go into that chamber at middle to grab the health there. I don't know how many jumps the rollout will require, but I dont like forcing the demoman to disengage to grab health. Badlands does this, and retreating to house can absolutely be a mid killing move akin to losing your demoman for 10 seconds.

Picture time!
[img]http://i.imgur.com/XNsUZea.jpg[/img]

This sightline is absolutely ridiculous. From that door, you can see SUPER far away, far enough that I suspect the sniper might even be hard to see if he is hiding his dot. In addition, from the offsensive (upper side) this is your view.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/IWyGZbX.png[/img]

You have control over three separate doors from this one sightline, with the advantage of having a big health and ammo, and a place for your medic to hide around the corner and tank you/soldier to bait you. Any repush against that spot is GOING to bleed minimum one player. Badlands at least you can hug a wall and not get seen until you are basically on the point (and sniper is still REALLY good on 4th holds). This seems super excessive.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/FJMRhDF.jpg[/img]

This is a potential solution to the issue. The issue with this is that it exacerbates the issue of players contesting 4th point (so red team on blue second) having a location with relative safe height advantage over the point. Pushing, this is a strong spot to spam onto point from, and will basically allow a demoman to lord over the lower exit and point with relative ease and defending, it is a highground past point that you basically have to contest before you can even think about capping. I think it should just be removed, or at least that door should be smaller or blocked in the same way that IT is on process. Another option is to move it to an angle looking at hut, away from the point.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/wDv9v7B.jpg[/img]

Another absurdly strong sniper sightline. I'm not sure how much of grass you have vision over, but I suspect it to be a significant amount. In addition, having control over the main door, exit onto point (kindof) and half of the healthpack room is super strong.This spot is also so far away from all of those doors that there is no real defense except a counter sniper. I mentioned foreshortening this area anyway, and I think that would take away a lot of the issues of the area in general.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/d9dqLHg.png[/img]

I can see this getting hella abused, and would probably be better off not accessible (i.e. cafe on sunshine). I agree with botmode though, it would be nice to playtest a version with and without this area, perhaps later on in the process so that other issues with the map don't detract from focusing on this particular change.

Overall, very strong early alpha. It seems like it will be a fun map to playtest and I would love to play in some high open+ pugs with smart players to determine what does and doesn't work.
24
#24
cp_sunshine, cp_reckoner
9 Frags +

THANK YOU for all the feedback so far everyone, I didn't expect the reception to be this good! Botmode and drshdw, thank you so much for the paragraphs with visuals, it's some of the most helpful stuff I can receive barring full pugs. Hopefully I can get a few on a1b and then spend a little bit reworking and fixing stuff for a2. Keep it coming.

THANK YOU for all the feedback so far everyone, I didn't expect the reception to be this good! Botmode and drshdw, thank you so much for the paragraphs with visuals, it's some of the most helpful stuff I can receive barring full pugs. Hopefully I can get a few on a1b and then spend a little bit reworking and fixing stuff for a2. Keep it coming.
25
#25
1 Frags +

Most of the issues have been addressed by other guys, but I'd like to highlight some things I've noticed about last.

Ignoring the fact that last feels a bit too big, the sniper sight-line for defenders on the left side is ridiculous due to the fact that it penetrates lobby entirely. Another problem with the middle entrance is that the half wall allows you to do a near-blind roamer bomb and wall jump off of the pillars to immediately pressure the defending medic regardless of which side they are holding on. I think what you could do would be to create an entrance similar to that of the the lobbies into Process and Badlands last, with a longer full wall instead of a half. This would eliminate the ability to do the jump, as well as force the defensive sniper to play more aggressively in order to peek into lobby.

Most of the issues have been addressed by other guys, but I'd like to highlight some things I've noticed about last.

Ignoring the fact that last feels a bit too big, the sniper sight-line for defenders on the left side is ridiculous due to the fact that it penetrates lobby entirely. Another problem with the middle entrance is that the half wall allows you to do a near-blind roamer bomb and wall jump off of the pillars to immediately pressure the defending medic regardless of which side they are holding on. I think what you could do would be to create an entrance similar to that of the the lobbies into Process and Badlands last, with a longer full wall instead of a half. This would eliminate the ability to do the jump, as well as force the defensive sniper to play more aggressively in order to peek into lobby.
26
#26
4 Frags +

played in in pugs, Huge blast. More improvements later when I have time.

EDIT:
The way mids play (in my experience with the map) is unique and requires legitimate thought. It's not really the standard "roamer jump everybody else follow up" that we are used to. The scale of mid means that scouts have an absolute field day on mid fights. The use of Granary-esque crates and badlands-like hoodoos allows soldiers to have fairly effective local control over small health kits. The number of ways to push last emulates sunshine, while the size and indoor setting of the point reflects Coldfront and Process. A minor thing that I would like to see is more light on last, as the shadows make it seem like a much larger area.

Additionally, the sniper sightlines are massive, as mentioned by Botmode and Shadowpuppet

played in in pugs, Huge blast. More improvements later when I have time.

EDIT:
The way mids play (in my experience with the map) is unique and requires legitimate thought. It's not really the standard "roamer jump everybody else follow up" that we are used to. The scale of mid means that scouts have an absolute field day on mid fights. The use of Granary-esque crates and badlands-like hoodoos allows soldiers to have fairly effective local control over small health kits. The number of ways to push last emulates sunshine, while the size and indoor setting of the point reflects Coldfront and Process. A minor thing that I would like to see is more light on last, as the shadows make it seem like a much larger area.

Additionally, the sniper sightlines are massive, as mentioned by Botmode and Shadowpuppet
27
#27
3 Frags +

Just played a couple games with my group, Iron Pugs. Everyone had fun. The Sniper lines, as others have mentioned, look really big, but we have rules against excessive offclassing so they didn't come into play. The problems were the eternal spawn times and the quick Last cap. It seemed like we could wipe a team at Mid and cap Last before they spawned. I'll think some more about what could have been better, but for now here are the STV's:
http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/423723
http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/423757

Edit: I personally liked the spaciousness. Plenty of room to jump around. Others liked the high frame rates they got on the map in its naked cp_orange textured state.

Edit 2: Bridge over Mid could possibly use an obstruction in the middle, like Spire on Gullywash. It's very easy to bomb (as a Soldier) from one Stairhouse to the other by skipjumping or pogoing across Bridge. If the enemy Combo is leaving their Stairhouse, they have no time to react. It seems like a bomb across Bridge should require wallpogoing off the Cell Towers so that the Pocket has a chance to protect his Med.
The area we referred to as Stairhouse (using botmode's screenshot):

http://i.imgur.com/H9pwzEr.jpg

Just played a couple games with my group, [url=http://steamcommunity.com/groups/IronPugs]Iron Pugs[/url]. Everyone had fun. The Sniper lines, as others have mentioned, look really big, but we have rules against excessive offclassing so they didn't come into play. The problems were the eternal spawn times and the quick Last cap. It seemed like we could wipe a team at Mid and cap Last before they spawned. I'll think some more about what could have been better, but for now here are the STV's:
http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/423723
http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/423757

Edit: I personally liked the spaciousness. Plenty of room to jump around. Others liked the high frame rates they got on the map in its naked cp_orange textured state.

Edit 2: Bridge over Mid could possibly use an obstruction in the middle, like Spire on Gullywash. It's very easy to bomb (as a Soldier) from one Stairhouse to the other by skipjumping or pogoing across Bridge. If the enemy Combo is leaving their Stairhouse, they have no time to react. It seems like a bomb across Bridge should require wallpogoing off the Cell Towers so that the Pocket has a chance to protect his Med.
The area we referred to as Stairhouse (using botmode's screenshot):
[img]http://i.imgur.com/H9pwzEr.jpg[/img]
28
#28
1 Frags +

Is anyone putting a pug of this together tonight? If so hmu, I'll medic.

Is anyone putting a pug of this together tonight? If so hmu, I'll medic.
29
#29
0 Frags +

i dont know if it was mentioned, but is there a good place to hold last on? all the spots in lobby look awful for medic, theres no real main choke area that doesnt have a huge flank to it

i dont know if it was mentioned, but is there a good place to hold last on? all the spots in lobby look awful for medic, theres no real main choke area that doesnt have a huge flank to it
30
#30
3 Frags +

played this in a pug yesterday, I was surprised becuase it was fun as hell to me.

just a few thoughts:
mid is very cool, you might want to consider downscaling it just a bit.

second has some crazy sight lines but other than that is cool

last is actually really cool. you may want to find a way to make secret a little bit more visible to the team holding, it seems like teams can push thru there right into the point, and makes backcapping pretty damn easy.

but either way for an alpha this map is impressive as fuck, I can see a lot of thought went into it and you made a really unique, cool looking map. very few complaints from me, keep up the good work and keep working on this map, it has huge potential.

played this in a pug yesterday, I was surprised becuase it was fun as hell to me.


just a few thoughts:
mid is very cool, you might want to consider downscaling it just a bit.

second has some crazy sight lines but other than that is cool

last is actually really cool. you may want to find a way to make secret a little bit more visible to the team holding, it seems like teams can push thru there right into the point, and makes backcapping pretty damn easy.

but either way for an alpha this map is impressive as fuck, I can see a lot of thought went into it and you made a really unique, cool looking map. very few complaints from me, keep up the good work and keep working on this map, it has huge potential.
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