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PC Build Thread
posted in Hardware
1381
#1381
0 Frags +
SetsulYou know that doesn't improve the situation since the 470 and 460 aren't released yet?

oh yeah....
they are coming out july 29th as im seeing on this post?

[quote=Setsul]You know that doesn't improve the situation since the 470 and 460 aren't released yet?[/quote]

oh yeah....
they are coming out july 29th as im seeing on this post?
1382
#1382
0 Frags +
Setsul#1366
As to what to look for: You want at least 1600MHz (frequency / speed) CL9 (timings).
For frequency higher is better
Timings are difficult, lower is better but you have to divide by the frequency first. So the 1333MHz CL9 RAM got worse timings than 1600MHz CL9 which in turn is still slower than 1866MHz CL10.

I've been slowly looking up RAM(pretty busy with school atm) and it seems my motherboard only does 1600MHz MAX without a overclock. I've found better prices on ram, even on some with higher frequencies than that of the ram I had before, it's tempting to buy them, but I gather that I'd have to overclock my PC to reap the benefits - should I with this rig? How'd I go about learning that? Would that "one click overclock" from ASUS help?

Show Content
hektikMy rig:

660ti AMP! edition by Zotac
Intel Core I5 - 4670 K
Asus Z87M - PLUS
2 x 8 GB CMZ16GX3M2A1866C10 CORSAIR (BROKEN)
HD SSD CORSAIR CSSD-N256GB3-BK
COOLER MASTER Elite 330U (RC-330U-KKN1-GP) case
My old HDD that's running as a slave.

Dunno if that was already my RAM dying, but in the past I've noticed my PC slowing down after I had opened a couple dozen tabs full of videos, and I haven't upgraded my PC in some time, that's why I'm interested in more RAM.

[quote=Setsul]#1366
As to what to look for: You want at least 1600MHz (frequency / speed) CL9 (timings).
For frequency higher is better
Timings are difficult, lower is better but you have to divide by the frequency first. So the 1333MHz CL9 RAM got worse timings than 1600MHz CL9 which in turn is still slower than 1866MHz CL10.[/quote]

I've been slowly looking up RAM(pretty busy with school atm) and it seems my motherboard only does 1600MHz MAX without a overclock. I've found better prices on ram, even on some with higher frequencies than that of the ram I had before, it's tempting to buy them, but I gather that I'd have to overclock my PC to reap the benefits - should I with this rig? How'd I go about learning that? Would that "one click overclock" from ASUS help?

[spoiler][quote=hektik]
My rig:

660ti AMP! edition by Zotac
Intel Core I5 - 4670 K
Asus Z87M - PLUS
2 x 8 GB CMZ16GX3M2A1866C10 CORSAIR (BROKEN)
HD SSD CORSAIR CSSD-N256GB3-BK
COOLER MASTER Elite 330U (RC-330U-KKN1-GP) case
My old HDD that's running as a slave.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Dunno if that was already my RAM dying, but in the past I've noticed my PC slowing down after I had opened a couple dozen tabs full of videos, and I haven't upgraded my PC in some time, that's why I'm interested in more RAM.
1383
#1383
0 Frags +

#1381
I don't think there's anything confirmed yet for the 470 adn 460, the 480 was the 29th of June.
It should be within July though most likely.

#1382
As for the pc slowing down you could've just checked the RAM usage in task manager. Like I said you can always just buy two more sticks should you indeed need more.

RAM "overclocking" is a bit different. The "one click overclock" is for the CPU since there's a lot of stuff you'd have to do manually (it's still more than one click). I mean you buy the CPU rated for e.g. 3.9GHz and then have to figure out how to run it at 4.5GHz since it's not supposed to do that.
1866MHz CL10 RAM you bought as 1866MHz CL10 will have profiles with all the settings needed to run it at 1866MHz CL10 already saved. You just need to enable it in BIOS. If I recall correctly on Asus Z87 mobos it should be literally on the first page. It should say "DRAM information" and a there's a drop down menu, you click on that, select "XMP" and that's it. Two clicks.

FYI the 1600MHz max that's just Intel support bullshit. They don't officially support >1600MHz but guess who developed XMP profiles to let you run RAM at higher speeds? Yep, it was Intel themselves.

#1381
I don't think there's anything confirmed yet for the 470 adn 460, the 480 was the 29th of June.
It should be within July though most likely.

#1382
As for the pc slowing down you could've just checked the RAM usage in task manager. Like I said you can always just buy two more sticks should you indeed need more.

RAM "overclocking" is a bit different. The "one click overclock" is for the CPU since there's a lot of stuff you'd have to do manually (it's still more than one click). I mean you buy the CPU rated for e.g. 3.9GHz and then have to figure out how to run it at 4.5GHz since it's not supposed to do that.
1866MHz CL10 RAM you bought as 1866MHz CL10 will have profiles with all the settings needed to run it at 1866MHz CL10 already saved. You just need to enable it in BIOS. If I recall correctly on Asus Z87 mobos it should be literally on the first page. It should say "DRAM information" and a there's a drop down menu, you click on that, select "XMP" and that's it. Two clicks.

FYI the 1600MHz max that's just Intel support bullshit. They don't officially support >1600MHz but guess who developed XMP profiles to let you run RAM at higher speeds? Yep, it was Intel themselves.
1384
#1384
0 Frags +

I'm going to build a new PC quite soon, but I need some help. I already have the graphics card I'm going to use, a Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming. My plan was getting an i7 6700k as CPU (Mostly gaming, but also maybe streaming / other more CPU intensive tasks), but outside of that I'm a bit lost. I was thinking of getting 16GB (DDR4) memory since it's not that expensive and I'm occasionally hitting the 8GB-limit on my current PC, so I might aswell. I want to overclock the 6700k. As for storage, a 500GB SSD, I still have a HDD lying around I can use if I need more storage. Probably not gonna get a DVD drive since I still have one I *could* use if necessary, but I'm pretty sure I used the DVD drive on my current PC literally once.
However, I have no idea what a good motherboard / RAM brand / PSU / case / SSD / (am I forgetting anything?) would be. I don't have a specific budget, but I don't really want any special features, just decent prize/performance overall; basically not spending more than necessary, but not cheaping out on anything. As for size, I'm assuming an ATX? motherboard/case, since the 1070 is quite large (~280mm IIRC).
So basically:
GPU: GTX 1070 (already have it)
CPU: i7 6700k (with a decent cooler)
RAM: 16GB DDR4
STORAGE: 500GB SSD
the rest: ??

I'll buy it from a dutch webshop, but I don't know which one specifically (I usually use this to find sites to buy hardware), so I suppose the german pcpartpicker is fine for me, I'm guessing the prices will be really similar.

Thanks in advance!

I'm going to build a new PC quite soon, but I need some help. I already have the graphics card I'm going to use, a Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming. My plan was getting an i7 6700k as CPU (Mostly gaming, but also maybe streaming / other more CPU intensive tasks), but outside of that I'm a bit lost. I was thinking of getting 16GB (DDR4) memory since it's not that expensive and I'm occasionally hitting the 8GB-limit on my current PC, so I might aswell. I want to overclock the 6700k. As for storage, a 500GB SSD, I still have a HDD lying around I can use if I need more storage. Probably not gonna get a DVD drive since I still have one I *could* use if necessary, but I'm pretty sure I used the DVD drive on my current PC literally once.
However, I have no idea what a good motherboard / RAM brand / PSU / case / SSD / (am I forgetting anything?) would be. I don't have a specific budget, but I don't really want any special features, just decent prize/performance overall; basically not spending more than necessary, but not cheaping out on anything. As for size, I'm assuming an ATX? motherboard/case, since the 1070 is quite large (~280mm IIRC).
So basically:
GPU: GTX 1070 (already have it)
CPU: i7 6700k (with a decent cooler)
RAM: 16GB DDR4
STORAGE: 500GB SSD
the rest: ??

I'll buy it from a dutch webshop, but I don't know which one specifically (I usually use [url=https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/]this[/url] to find sites to buy hardware), so I suppose the german pcpartpicker is fine for me, I'm guessing the prices will be really similar.

Thanks in advance!
1385
#1385
0 Frags +

#1384
ATX or µATX doesn't affect GPU length, only the number of GPUs. How many do you plan on using?

How soon are you building?

RAM brands don't matter, only specs do.

Rough ballpark figure for how much you'd be willing to spend?

#1384
ATX or µATX doesn't affect GPU length, only the number of GPUs. How many do you plan on using?

How soon are you building?

RAM brands don't matter, only specs do.

Rough ballpark figure for how much you'd be willing to spend?
1386
#1386
0 Frags +
Setsul#1384
ATX or µATX doesn't affect GPU length, only the number of GPUs. How many do you plan on using?

How soon are you building?

RAM brands don't matter, only specs do.

Rough ballpark figure for how much you'd be willing to spend?

Keep In mind that APPARENTLY now CAS latency for ram affects it's compatibility with certain motherboards.... WHHHHYYYYYY.

[quote=Setsul]#1384
ATX or µATX doesn't affect GPU length, only the number of GPUs. How many do you plan on using?

How soon are you building?

RAM brands don't matter, only specs do.

Rough ballpark figure for how much you'd be willing to spend?[/quote]
Keep In mind that APPARENTLY now CAS latency for ram affects it's compatibility with certain motherboards.... WHHHHYYYYYY.
1387
#1387
0 Frags +

I only plan on using 1 GPU. So as for ATX vs µATX, I suppose µATX is more convenient since I wouldn't use the extra space anyway, but if you'd say ATX (/ a larger case in that case, I suppose) is cheaper / better airflow / better for whatever reason, I'm fine with that aswell.

I was planning on building it very soon, as in, somewhere around the next few weeks.

I was thinking about €750-850 or so (without the GPU obviously), not sure if that's enough though. I can go over it if necessary but preferably not.

I only plan on using 1 GPU. So as for ATX vs µATX, I suppose µATX is more convenient since I wouldn't use the extra space anyway, but if you'd say ATX (/ a larger case in that case, I suppose) is cheaper / better airflow / better for whatever reason, I'm fine with that aswell.

I was planning on building it very soon, as in, somewhere around the next few weeks.

I was thinking about €750-850 or so (without the GPU obviously), not sure if that's enough though. I can go over it if necessary but preferably not.
1388
#1388
0 Frags +
KaptainI only plan on using 1 GPU. So as for ATX vs µATX, I suppose µATX is more convenient since I wouldn't use the extra space anyway, but if you'd say ATX (/ a larger case in that case, I suppose) is cheaper / better airflow / better for whatever reason, I'm fine with that aswell.

I was planning on building it very soon, as in, somewhere around the next few weeks.

I was thinking about €750-850 or so (without the GPU obviously), not sure if that's enough though. I can go over it if necessary but preferably not.

Definitely should be good with that price point. And the size of the motherboard also depends on what you'd be using it for. Do you want to build a home system that never moves? Are you planning on transporting this PC to LANs and such?

[quote=Kaptain]I only plan on using 1 GPU. So as for ATX vs µATX, I suppose µATX is more convenient since I wouldn't use the extra space anyway, but if you'd say ATX (/ a larger case in that case, I suppose) is cheaper / better airflow / better for whatever reason, I'm fine with that aswell.

I was planning on building it very soon, as in, somewhere around the next few weeks.

I was thinking about €750-850 or so (without the GPU obviously), not sure if that's enough though. I can go over it if necessary but preferably not.[/quote]
Definitely should be good with that price point. And the size of the motherboard also depends on what you'd be using it for. Do you want to build a home system that never moves? Are you planning on transporting this PC to LANs and such?
1389
#1389
0 Frags +

Pretty much just a home system, not planning on moving it / taking it to LANs or something like that.

Pretty much just a home system, not planning on moving it / taking it to LANs or something like that.
1390
#1390
0 Frags +

#1387/1389
I'm not sure what to do now since prices differ so much between shops.

Anyway some general recommendations:
I'd go with µATX. Takes up less space and the cases are usually cheaper since they are smaller.
If you go with µATX then for mobo I'd say ASRock Z170M Pro4 (or Pro4S) or the Gigabyte GA-Z170M-D3H, whichever is cheaper.
RAM 2x 8GB 2400MHz CL15 (you know how timings work?) or better. Brands don't matter.
SSD depends on how much you want to spend. Samsung 850 Evo is the usual recommendation, Sandisk Extreme Pro and Samsung 850 Pro are faster but more expensive options.
No idea about the case yet. Any example of what you'd like it to look like? Sound dampening? Window?

#1387/1389
I'm not sure what to do now since prices differ so much between shops.

Anyway some general recommendations:
I'd go with µATX. Takes up less space and the cases are usually cheaper since they are smaller.
If you go with µATX then for mobo I'd say ASRock Z170M Pro4 (or Pro4S) or the Gigabyte GA-Z170M-D3H, whichever is cheaper.
RAM 2x 8GB 2400MHz CL15 (you know how timings work?) or better. Brands don't matter.
SSD depends on how much you want to spend. Samsung 850 Evo is the usual recommendation, Sandisk Extreme Pro and Samsung 850 Pro are faster but more expensive options.
No idea about the case yet. Any example of what you'd like it to look like? Sound dampening? Window?
1391
#1391
0 Frags +

Since the windows 10 free upgrade ending is looming in the near distant future I figured I should upgrade my hardware. I would love to be able to get >144fps when streaming tf2 and an ssd for it and civ 5. Other than that I don't really care about anything else, and would be willing to pay whatever it required. I am comfortable overclocking but I hate the idea of water in my computer, thanks in advance.

current computer: (WHICH I OWN)
http://pcpartpicker.com/list/dQd4Cy

Since the windows 10 free upgrade ending is looming in the near distant future I figured I should upgrade my hardware. I would love to be able to get >144fps when streaming tf2 and an ssd for it and civ 5. Other than that I don't really care about anything else, and would be willing to pay whatever it required. I am comfortable overclocking but I hate the idea of water in my computer, thanks in advance.

current computer: (WHICH I OWN)
http://pcpartpicker.com/list/dQd4Cy
1392
#1392
0 Frags +

@Setsul

For the case, support for cable management (no idea if this is standard but there's no space in my current case for it at least) and decent airflow is most important. A window would be nice, it's not necessary but if it doesn't cost too much then sure.

I'll get the ASRock Z170M Pro4S (since it's available / cheaper) then, whatever brand 2x 8GB 2400MHz CL15 RAM, and the Samsung 850 Evo 500GB.
Do you have any recommendations for a PSU / an aircooler for the 6700k that'd allow me to overclock a decent amount?

@Setsul

For the case, support for cable management (no idea if this is standard but there's no space in my current case for it at least) and decent airflow is most important. A window would be nice, it's not necessary but if it doesn't cost too much then sure.

I'll get the ASRock Z170M Pro4S (since it's available / cheaper) then, whatever brand 2x 8GB 2400MHz CL15 RAM, and the Samsung 850 Evo 500GB.
Do you have any recommendations for a PSU / an aircooler for the 6700k that'd allow me to overclock a decent amount?
1393
#1393
0 Frags +

#1391
But do you want to overclock? It's obviously better but it costs money and you didn't specifiy a budget so I'm not sure if it'd be worth it for you.
SSD size?

#1392
Oh right I knew I forgot something.
I wrote this between matches.
Cooler I'd say Noctua NH-D14 or Phanteks PH-TC14PE. Maybe Thermalright Silver Arrow but depends on compatibility.
PSU I'd say https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/317760/seasonic-g-series-450-watt.html
There's a 550W version but you wouldn't need it with a 1070, only if you got something more power hungry and overclocked both CPU and GPU.
More expensive but even better option:
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/481231/super-flower-leadex-gold-550w-gun-metal-grey.html
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/450115/evga-supernova-550-g2.html
Same PSU, get whichever is cheapest of the two.

As for the case I meant in terms of asthetics. On your budget if a case doesn't have good airflow and cable management you'd be cutting corners.

#1391
But do you want to overclock? It's obviously better but it costs money and you didn't specifiy a budget so I'm not sure if it'd be worth it for you.
SSD size?

#1392
Oh right I knew I forgot something.
I wrote this between matches.
Cooler I'd say Noctua NH-D14 or Phanteks PH-TC14PE. Maybe Thermalright Silver Arrow but depends on compatibility.
PSU I'd say https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/317760/seasonic-g-series-450-watt.html
There's a 550W version but you wouldn't need it with a 1070, only if you got something more power hungry and overclocked both CPU and GPU.
More expensive but even better option:
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/481231/super-flower-leadex-gold-550w-gun-metal-grey.html
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/450115/evga-supernova-550-g2.html
Same PSU, get whichever is cheapest of the two.

As for the case I meant in terms of asthetics. On your budget if a case doesn't have good airflow and cable management you'd be cutting corners.
1394
#1394
0 Frags +

Oh, as for aesthetics nothing special, just a black box basically. Something that looks like this, or preferably with a window.

Oh, as for aesthetics nothing special, just a black box basically. Something that looks like [url=https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/443611/fractal-design-define-s.html]this[/url], or preferably with a [url=https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/443613/fractal-design-define-s-window.html]window[/url].
1395
#1395
1 Frags +

#1394
The Define S is pretty good.
Some other options:
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/498789/phanteks-eclipse-p400-zwart.html
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/456046/phanteks-enthoo-pro-m-zwart.html
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/542293/phanteks-eclipse-p400s-zwart-window.html
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/422470/nzxt-s340-zwart.html

None of them have a 5.25" slot but that shouldn't be a problem, right?

#1394
The Define S is pretty good.
Some other options:
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/498789/phanteks-eclipse-p400-zwart.html
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/456046/phanteks-enthoo-pro-m-zwart.html
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/542293/phanteks-eclipse-p400s-zwart-window.html
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/422470/nzxt-s340-zwart.html

None of them have a 5.25" slot but that shouldn't be a problem, right?
1396
#1396
0 Frags +

Nope, not an issue. Thanks for all your help, I think I can figure it out from here!

Nope, not an issue. Thanks for all your help, I think I can figure it out from here!
1397
#1397
0 Frags +
Setsul#1391
But do you want to overclock? It's obviously better but it costs money and you didn't specifiy a budget so I'm not sure if it'd be worth it for you.
SSD size?

In terms of an SSD I would just like something reliable and at least 120gb.
I would wanna see the price difference of an overclock.

[quote=Setsul]#1391
But do you want to overclock? It's obviously better but it costs money and you didn't specifiy a budget so I'm not sure if it'd be worth it for you.
SSD size?[/quote]
In terms of an SSD I would just like something reliable and at least 120gb.
I would wanna see the price difference of an overclock.
1398
#1398
1 Frags +

#1396
Glad I could help.

#1397
Again, default 850 Evo. I'm going with 250GB for now, 120GB is only 23$ cheaper.

Price difference depends on the cooler.
4 example builds, OC and no OC for Haswell (DDR3) and Skylake (DDR4). Skylake with DDR3 is bullshit imho.

Haswell:
No OC: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/9sW2RG 452.05$
OC: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/rKMJVY 569.95$
Difference:
without cooler 52.91$
with cooler 117.90$

Skylake:
No OC: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/dZvzM8 498.03$
OC: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/3pMJVY 621.91$
Difference:
without cooler 58.89$
with cooler 123.88$
Without cooler isn't really an option, you need some sort of cooler because the i7-6700K doesn't come with one, so it's a bit more.

#1396
Glad I could help.

#1397
Again, default 850 Evo. I'm going with 250GB for now, 120GB is only 23$ cheaper.

Price difference depends on the cooler.
4 example builds, OC and no OC for Haswell (DDR3) and Skylake (DDR4). Skylake with DDR3 is bullshit imho.

Haswell:
No OC: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/9sW2RG 452.05$
OC: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/rKMJVY 569.95$
Difference:
without cooler 52.91$
with cooler 117.90$

Skylake:
No OC: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/dZvzM8 498.03$
OC: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/3pMJVY 621.91$
Difference:
without cooler 58.89$
with cooler 123.88$
Without cooler isn't really an option, you need some sort of cooler because the i7-6700K doesn't come with one, so it's a bit more.
1399
#1399
0 Frags +

http://pcpartpicker.com/list/t7GLJV

edit: For reference, this is just a basic gaming PC not to run anything crazy. Just something my brother was considering putting together.

http://pcpartpicker.com/list/t7GLJV

edit: For reference, this is just a basic gaming PC not to run anything crazy. Just something my brother was considering putting together.
1400
#1400
3 Frags +

#1399
Nice 144Hz monitor. Now you only need to find a game that this pc can run at 144fps and that's neither Solitaire nor Minesweeper. Spider Solitaire doesn't count either.

In all seriousness though buying a 4 and a half years old CPU is a terrible idea. Buying a 6 core CPU with terrible single threaded performance for games is a terrible idea. Buying a 4 and a half years old CPU that was bad for games when it launched to play new games with it is a whole new category.

Also you can't substitute a good GPU with more RAM.

Took me literally 2 minutes to come up with something better (it's still not good though).
http://pcpartpicker.com/list/nWpBbj

If he's actually serious then here's what he should do:
1. Figure out a budget and or what he wants to do with it. As in which games, what settings, what resolution, how many fps.
2. Depending on budget wait for the 470 or 1060 = 480 price drops.
3. Depending on budget and or performance goal a 144Hz monitor might not make sense yet. No point in getting a 144Hz monitor if you can't get 144fps. Better to get a cheap used monitor and a good GPU and then get a good monitor later. Generally if you're spending more on your monitor than on your GPU chances are things are not going to run well.

#1399
Nice 144Hz monitor. Now you only need to find a game that this pc can run at 144fps and that's neither Solitaire nor Minesweeper. Spider Solitaire doesn't count either.

In all seriousness though buying a 4 and a half years old CPU is a terrible idea. Buying a 6 core CPU with terrible single threaded performance for games is a terrible idea. Buying a 4 and a half years old CPU that was bad for games when it launched to play new games with it is a whole new category.

Also you can't substitute a good GPU with more RAM.

Took me literally 2 minutes to come up with something better (it's still not good though).
http://pcpartpicker.com/list/nWpBbj

If he's actually serious then here's what he should do:
1. Figure out a budget and or what he wants to do with it. As in which games, what settings, what resolution, how many fps.
2. Depending on budget wait for the 470 or 1060 = 480 price drops.
3. Depending on budget and or performance goal a 144Hz monitor might not make sense yet. No point in getting a 144Hz monitor if you can't get 144fps. Better to get a cheap used monitor and a good GPU and then get a good monitor later. Generally if you're spending more on your monitor than on your GPU chances are things are not going to run well.
1401
#1401
0 Frags +

Yo can somebody look over this 650ish build that plays all games 144 fps at 1080p

http://pcpartpicker.com/list/vB8QZ8

Yo can somebody look over this 650ish build that plays all games 144 fps at 1080p

http://pcpartpicker.com/list/vB8QZ8
1402
#1402
0 Frags +

#1401
Some minor changes, maxed out the budget.
http://pcpartpicker.com/list/wXLyXH

Not too big of a fan of the 200R but I don't know what you want so I didn't change it.

Whether or not it'll play all games at 144fps at 1080p depends on the settings and your definition of "all".

#1401
Some minor changes, maxed out the budget.
http://pcpartpicker.com/list/wXLyXH

Not too big of a fan of the 200R but I don't know what you want so I didn't change it.

Whether or not it'll play all games at 144fps at 1080p depends on the settings and your definition of "all".
1403
#1403
0 Frags +

hey, i'm looking to upgrade to boost my framerate in overwatch but i don't want to invest in anything that provides limited benefit over what i already have.

i'm on my phone so i can't provide complete system specs but the important bits are a benq 144hz monitor, i5-3570, 660ti, 16gb of ram (idk what type) and a budget asus motherboard (p8h77 or something?). i average 100-120 fps at 1920x1080/100% render scale and 130-170 at 1280x720/75% (on the low settings preset).

would buying a 1070 without upgrading anything else help me much? from what i've heard the newest cpus are not much of an improvement over much older models whereas the difference in gpus is drastic. i'd prefer to wait until cpu tech improves substantially rather than paying a lot for incremental gain.

hey, i'm looking to upgrade to boost my framerate in overwatch but i don't want to invest in anything that provides limited benefit over what i already have.

i'm on my phone so i can't provide complete system specs but the important bits are a benq 144hz monitor, i5-3570, 660ti, 16gb of ram (idk what type) and a budget asus motherboard (p8h77 or something?). i average 100-120 fps at 1920x1080/100% render scale and 130-170 at 1280x720/75% (on the low settings preset).

would buying a 1070 without upgrading anything else help me much? from what i've heard the newest cpus are not much of an improvement over much older models whereas the difference in gpus is drastic. i'd prefer to wait until cpu tech improves substantially rather than paying a lot for incremental gain.
1404
#1404
5 Frags +

#1403
I wouldn't hold my breath for "substantial tech improvements" in CPUs. They happen, it just doesn't do much anymore.

A short explanation:
How much work a CPU gets done depends on 3 things:
1. How long each cycle takes = clock rate. The less time you need for each cycle, the more you can get done in the same time. As you've probably noticed clock rates haven't really increased in a while now. It's not important why that is but it's not going to change any time soon.
2. How much work you get done in each cycle. Sadly on x86 there is a limit at around 4 instructions per cycle and it's really difficult to get around that. Modern CPUs are already at 3.something so not much happening here either.
3. How many cycles you actually spend doing work and how many cycles you just wait for stuff to happen. Let's say a CPU is stalled 40% of the time. If you halve that it now does work 80% of the time so it's 1/3 = 33% faster. But if you halve it again it only gets 12.5% faster. Another and it's only 5.56%. And so on.

There's really not much anyone can do to change that unless you start from scratch, but then your games won't work anymore.
And trust me, this is the short explanation.

One thing that can and will happen though is more cores. After being stuck on 4 cores maximum for the average consumer we'll finally see some more in 1 or 2 years. Won't help with old games like TF2 that can't even use 4 cores, but it will help with new and properly programmed games like Overwatch.

Back on topic now.
I'd say your GPU is indeed the limiting factor here. However a 1070 might be overkill. It depends on how many fps you want. A 1070 could put you at around 280 (1080p 100%, low), a 480 around 200. The problem is that I'd expect your CPU to become the limiting factor at around 200. I only have benchmarks regarding the on Ultra and in those the 3570 tops out around 180. On low it should be a bit higher, but I'm not sure. So the 1070 might not actually improve performance when compared to GPUs half its price.

#1403
I wouldn't hold my breath for "substantial tech improvements" in CPUs. They happen, it just doesn't do much anymore.

A short explanation:
How much work a CPU gets done depends on 3 things:
1. How long each cycle takes = clock rate. The less time you need for each cycle, the more you can get done in the same time. As you've probably noticed clock rates haven't really increased in a while now. It's not important why that is but it's not going to change any time soon.
2. How much work you get done in each cycle. Sadly on x86 there is a limit at around 4 instructions per cycle and it's really difficult to get around that. Modern CPUs are already at 3.something so not much happening here either.
3. How many cycles you actually spend doing work and how many cycles you just wait for stuff to happen. Let's say a CPU is stalled 40% of the time. If you halve that it now does work 80% of the time so it's 1/3 = 33% faster. But if you halve it again it only gets 12.5% faster. Another and it's only 5.56%. And so on.

There's really not much anyone can do to change that unless you start from scratch, but then your games won't work anymore.
And trust me, this is the short explanation.

One thing that can and will happen though is more cores. After being stuck on 4 cores maximum for the average consumer we'll finally see some more in 1 or 2 years. Won't help with old games like TF2 that can't even use 4 cores, but it will help with new and properly programmed games like Overwatch.

Back on topic now.
I'd say your GPU is indeed the limiting factor here. However a 1070 might be overkill. It depends on how many fps you want. A 1070 could put you at around 280 (1080p 100%, low), a 480 around 200. The problem is that I'd expect your CPU to become the limiting factor at around 200. I only have benchmarks regarding the on Ultra and in those the 3570 tops out around 180. On low it should be a bit higher, but I'm not sure. So the 1070 might not actually improve performance when compared to GPUs half its price.
1405
#1405
0 Frags +

@Setsul I have been thinking alot about this and thought you could help. Currently i have an old 670 that i would like to switch out, but i have been very in doubt which graphics card to buy? I have read alot about rx 480 and 970 and the price range/performance fits perfect for me. I plan to play games @ 1080p with atleast 144 fps, since my benq monitor. But unfortunately i haven't been hitting 144+ with this old card, (barely 100-115) on every setting on low.

But each and every time i ask on a computer/gaming forum i get different responses, from AMD fanboys and NVIDIA fanboys and i can't really benefit from them. I got told to get the 480 because of the newer card, meaning it will have new drivers and be more optimal. And on the other hand, been told by alot of friends with the 970 that i should go for it, especially now because of the price drop, but also that they been getting consistent 144+ fps on low settings. Third part of the people i asked say don't go for the 970 because of the 3.5gb vram, but does it really matter in games such as overwatch, csgo, tf2 only? Last response i got was to wait for the 1060 which will perform much better than the 480 and 970. (im just afraid it will be above my budget, but if it's worth it will definitely do it).

So here I am really confused, getting opinions without anything to back them up, so could you possibly give me a quick overview of what i should get and why the 970 is better pick than the 480 and vice versa? I would appreciate it a ton. I have been lurking on forums and waiting for nearly 1 month and still can't decide what to go for. Overwatch is getting unplayable with below monitor refresh rate fps, so im kind of desperate for something new. I have a i5 3570k if it matters at all.

@Setsul I have been thinking alot about this and thought you could help. Currently i have an old 670 that i would like to switch out, but i have been very in doubt which graphics card to buy? I have read alot about rx 480 and 970 and the price range/performance fits perfect for me. I plan to play games @ 1080p with atleast 144 fps, since my benq monitor. But unfortunately i haven't been hitting 144+ with this old card, (barely 100-115) on every setting on low.

But each and every time i ask on a computer/gaming forum i get different responses, from AMD fanboys and NVIDIA fanboys and i can't really benefit from them. I got told to get the 480 because of the newer card, meaning it will have new drivers and be more optimal. And on the other hand, been told by alot of friends with the 970 that i should go for it, especially now because of the price drop, but also that they been getting consistent 144+ fps on low settings. Third part of the people i asked say don't go for the 970 because of the 3.5gb vram, but does it really matter in games such as overwatch, csgo, tf2 only? Last response i got was to wait for the 1060 which will perform much better than the 480 and 970. (im just afraid it will be above my budget, but if it's worth it will definitely do it).

So here I am really confused, getting opinions without anything to back them up, so could you possibly give me a quick overview of what i should get and why the 970 is better pick than the 480 and vice versa? I would appreciate it a ton. I have been lurking on forums and waiting for nearly 1 month and still can't decide what to go for. Overwatch is getting unplayable with below monitor refresh rate fps, so im kind of desperate for something new. I have a i5 3570k if it matters at all.
1406
#1406
0 Frags +

#1405
First of all which games on what settings?
As always a better GPU won't help at all in TF2.

I'm assuming your budget is around 250-300$?

The 970 and 480 should be around twice as fast as the 670 so if you don't need that much performance you could go for a slightly cheaper GPU and save some money.

I don't think the 970 is worth buying anymore. The 480 isn't in stock everywhere yet and the customs cards are just now turning up so prices are still inflated but that should fix itself soon. The cheapest 970s I could find on pcpartpicker are around 260$. For around that price you should be able to get a custom 480 (reference 480 MSRP is 240$), which would be faster.

According to nVidia the 1060 is supposed to be 15% faster than the 480. That means realistically we can expect 10%. Considering the bullshit that is going on with the Founders Edition (the 1080 and 1070 still haven't reached their MSRP yet) you can expect it cost closer to 300$ than the 250$ nVidia claims.

Summary:
1. Which games, what settings?
2. Budget?
3. Can you wait? Prices on the 480 are still dropping. If the 1060 is better then at the very least we'll see further price drops on the 480, even if you can't afford the 1060 itself.

#1405
First of all which games on what settings?
As always a better GPU won't help at all in TF2.

I'm assuming your budget is around 250-300$?

The 970 and 480 should be around twice as fast as the 670 so if you don't need that much performance you could go for a slightly cheaper GPU and save some money.

I don't think the 970 is worth buying anymore. The 480 isn't in stock everywhere yet and the customs cards are just now turning up so prices are still inflated but that should fix itself soon. The cheapest 970s I could find on pcpartpicker are around 260$. For around that price you should be able to get a custom 480 (reference 480 MSRP is 240$), which would be faster.

According to nVidia the 1060 is supposed to be 15% faster than the 480. That means realistically we can expect 10%. Considering the bullshit that is going on with the Founders Edition (the 1080 and 1070 still haven't reached their MSRP yet) you can expect it cost closer to 300$ than the 250$ nVidia claims.


Summary:
1. Which games, what settings?
2. Budget?
3. Can you wait? Prices on the 480 are still dropping. If the 1060 is better then at the very least we'll see further price drops on the 480, even if you can't afford the 1060 itself.
1407
#1407
0 Frags +

The games i plan on playing, overwatch (mainly), csgo and tf2 a little bit, which is probably more cpu intensive. I simply just want enough frames on low to play without drops and maybe also stream in the future. You were right with the guess, my budget is 300-350$. I heard alot of rumors about the 1060 being around the 350-400$ on release. The 6gb version. I am not sure if i can wait, depends on how long, 2 weeks probably, but can't more than that (already waited a month). Ah so you're more for the 480 than the 970, could you tell me why? If i were to buy a custom 480 over a strix/msi 970.

I have never owned an AMD card, just nvidia, and must admit i never had problems with nvidia, and people keep writing about how nvidia always is superior to amd, and that the 480 has watt problems that can ruin your motherboard, have you heard about that. The problem is, even if i wait for the 1060 to come out in 7 days, you would still wait for the custom cards even longer. Not sure if these benchmarks are any reliable, but the 2 cards seem very close on here.

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-970-vs-AMD-RX-480/2577vs3634

The games i plan on playing, overwatch (mainly), csgo and tf2 a little bit, which is probably more cpu intensive. I simply just want enough frames on low to play without drops and maybe also stream in the future. You were right with the guess, my budget is 300-350$. I heard alot of rumors about the 1060 being around the 350-400$ on release. The 6gb version. I am not sure if i can wait, depends on how long, 2 weeks probably, but can't more than that (already waited a month). Ah so you're more for the 480 than the 970, could you tell me why? If i were to buy a custom 480 over a strix/msi 970.

I have never owned an AMD card, just nvidia, and must admit i never had problems with nvidia, and people keep writing about how nvidia always is superior to amd, and that the 480 has watt problems that can ruin your motherboard, have you heard about that. The problem is, even if i wait for the 1060 to come out in 7 days, you would still wait for the custom cards even longer. Not sure if these benchmarks are any reliable, but the 2 cards seem very close on here.

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-970-vs-AMD-RX-480/2577vs3634
1408
#1408
2 Frags +

#1407
Just FYI the GPU doesn't help with streaming.

With less than 2 weeks the 1060 isn't an option then I guess.
You should still at least wait one week for the custom 480s.

480 vs 970: Similar price, the 480 is faster, newer and got more VRAM. Even if you won't need any of it why get the worse card if it's not cheaper?
Keep in mind that the results on userbenchmark mostly use the older driver on the 480, the new one already gets you +3%. Then you have to keep in mind that the 970's results include overclocked aftermarket cards, which are just now becoming available for the 480. So the 480 is definitely faster and the gap will get bigger with newer drivers and under DX12 / Vulkan.

The power draw "problem" has already been fixed. It will also definitely not kill your motherboard. I can link you a Video where someone draws a few hundred W over the PCIe slot on a 10 years old motherboard and it doesn't care at all. Those people claiming the 480 killed their motherboard either shorted something out or are just trying to get a free replacement. The actual problem is twofold:
1. The PCIe slot is specced for 75W so it's not supposed to draw more than that.
2. Because the PCIe slot is specced for 75W some very expensive motherboards (worth more than the 480) would shut down since the slot going out of spec usually means the card in it is defective.
Like I said though, it's already fixed anyway.

#1407
Just FYI the GPU doesn't help with streaming.

With less than 2 weeks the 1060 isn't an option then I guess.
You should still at least wait one week for the custom 480s.

480 vs 970: Similar price, the 480 is faster, newer and got more VRAM. Even if you won't need any of it why get the worse card if it's not cheaper?
Keep in mind that the results on userbenchmark mostly use the older driver on the 480, the new one already gets you +3%. Then you have to keep in mind that the 970's results include overclocked aftermarket cards, which are just now becoming available for the 480. So the 480 is definitely faster and the gap will get bigger with newer drivers and under DX12 / Vulkan.

The power draw "problem" has already been fixed. It will also definitely not kill your motherboard. I can link you a Video where someone draws a few hundred W over the PCIe slot on a 10 years old motherboard and it doesn't care at all. Those people claiming the 480 killed their motherboard either shorted something out or are just trying to get a free replacement. The actual problem is twofold:
1. The PCIe slot is specced for 75W so it's not supposed to draw more than that.
2. Because the PCIe slot is specced for 75W some very expensive motherboards (worth more than the 480) would shut down since the slot going out of spec usually means the card in it is defective.
Like I said though, it's already fixed anyway.
1409
#1409
0 Frags +

After reading all of this, i can sense you recommend the 480 over the 970 then, thanks alot for the explanation! I will definitely wait for the custom 480's and go with one. Thanks again :)

After reading all of this, i can sense you recommend the 480 over the 970 then, thanks alot for the explanation! I will definitely wait for the custom 480's and go with one. Thanks again :)
1410
#1410
0 Frags +

thanks so much for your help, i've decided to go with the 1070 because i'll probably keep it when i upgrade the rest of my build sometime in the future. do you expect a price drop as the rest of the lineup from amd/nvidia roll out or should i just buy it now?

edit: oh and also is there a specific brand or type i should look for or should i just get the cheapest version

thanks so much for your help, i've decided to go with the 1070 because i'll probably keep it when i upgrade the rest of my build sometime in the future. do you expect a price drop as the rest of the lineup from amd/nvidia roll out or should i just buy it now?

edit: oh and also is there a specific brand or type i should look for or should i just get the cheapest version
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