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#34 rgl anti sandbagging rules in TF2 General Discussion

With that in mind, let’s go through the bans brought up and evaluate them.


Monsta, umplst, donovin, and ambroon have all placed in Div-1 or its equivalent one or more times and have a track record of playing at this level without playing invite. By the format-wide guidelines, they are appropriately restricted.

Alan placed 2nd last season of Div-1, which means he should move up into invite. While he's a borderline case, so long as we have less than 8 teams in Invite, a restriction like this will stand.

Ether is being restricted from soldier, which is the class he played in invite and won advanced on.

Exile is a borderline case, since he has mostly competed at an invite level on demo, yet has placed in Div-1/Adv on scout. To bring this in-line with our other restrictions, Exile's restriction will be changed to demo to reflect his Invite experience.

Mirrorman was restricted to pyro when the team was initially placed in Div-2. They were moved up to Div-1, where mirrorman would only be restricted from soldier, but the site was not updated before the team died.

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mikematMost of the restricts in this thread is pretty obviously rgl telling yall to play fucking invite tho.

Div-2 and the rest

A handful of class restrictions in the lower division were a result of the aggressive Div-1 policies being applied to the lower divisions where they shouldn't be. This was a result of the shift in admin staff happening so late this offseason and us not having formalized guidelines. These are both problems we've fixed, and are working to avoid in the future.

yumyum - this was a case of the above. Since he has only placed in Div-2 once, and isn't demonstrably better than most or all of the division, he will be allowed to mainclass in Div-2. This brings him in line with both our policy and DonDorito, who's unrestricted for similar reasoning.

ult and penny are both borderline cases. We will be unrestricting ult to maintain consistency with these.

As mentioned in the guidelines, we care much more about recent experience and placements than historical behavior. KTB has no experience higher than Div-2 in RGL, and has been performing on-par for the division.

Parsuh is another case where the Div-1 standards were incorrectly applied. Their restriction will be lifted.

Wacky and Fanta are both on a team that we initially wanted to place in main. At their request, we restricted Wacky, the player with the most experience, so that the team was able to play IM.

I definitely appreciate the communities' concern over this, and I think we can all agree that fair sandbagging policies are an important part of making the league better. Like you, we realized something was off here, and this was already a hot discussion within the admin team before this thread. While we largely stand behind all of the decisions our team makes, we do make mistakes, and owning up to them and being able to change them is a huge part of our philosophy at RGL. This is an ongoing process, so feel free to message your appropriate division admin regarding specific player restrictions or me at _Makkabeus#9603 for anything regarding RGL 6s.

posted 1 month ago
#33 rgl anti sandbagging rules in TF2 General Discussion

This is an important topic, and a big point of discussion among the admins in the past week. We're always aiming for consistent decisions, but we've fallen short of that mark in a few places this season that we want to address. We also haven't done a good job communicating the guidelines we use for sandbagging, which is in part because in the past they haven't been well defined. We've drafted a more formal set of guidelines that will be our benchmark moving forward and we want to share it here.

Our Sandbagging Guidelines

In general, we will class restrict:

  • If a person has made top 4-6 in playoffs multiple times in the same division (depends on the division size)
  • If a person has made playoffs in the division above or higher
  • If a person is demonstrably better on a class than everyone else in a division

In addition, sometimes a team will want to play a lower division than they are able to. In this case, we may further restrict their stronger players to bring the team in line with the rest of the division, even if they might not have been restricted otherwise.

In general, we largely favor recent experience and demonstrated current skill to historical performance as we find it better reflects a player's actual ability. There are also always exceptions, such as when a player is particularly bad or good at an offclass or were noticeably the strongest or weakest player on a previous team. We also handle medic experience differently, and will largely look at a player's fragging class ability rather than med level when evaluating what division they can play. At the moment, we operate mostly under the assumption that if you're rostering on a team, you're able to play at or close to that level. In the near future, the RGL site will have built-in log tracking for matches, which will enable us to do a significantly better job of differentiating mains, subs, and roster riders.

We haven't always hit these ideals, but these are our goals. Several of the current restrictions listed in this thread we revisited because they didn't meet these ideals, while others are a miscommunication of the reasoning behind the restriction.

The Invite and Div-1 Situation

Our ideal goal for a healthy Invite is to see enough players and teams wanting to play Invite that we need to run qualifiers. Having that upward draw propagates through the rest of the league and creates a much better culture of improvement and competitiveness. In an environment like this, we'd see the weakest restrictions in Div-1 as players try to establish themselves as invite-worthy.

Currently, we have the opposite situation. In 3 of the past 4 seasons, we've seen less than 8 teams playing Invite while we see many of the same players repeatedly play Div-1 instead of moving up. Historically, when we've tried to move teams up, they've died or threatened to die. This season, we've been cracking down on this behavior. We'll be expanding on this with additional incentives for moving into Invite and more well-defined and aggressive restrictions until we see a healthy Invite division of 8-10 teams form.

While we're taking a particularly aggressive stance with the proverbial stick this season, there's definitely plenty of carrot too. Many people don't realize, but for every season of RGL Invite, any team that has lived through the end of the season has broken even or made a profit. When accounting for the Invite div fee, placing dead last in S3 Invite earned the same as winning Div-1. There are few to no practical reasons invite-level players should not be playing Invite if there are less than 8-10 invite teams.

posted 1 month ago
#6 RGL S4 Div Fees and 6s Staff Additions in TF2 General Discussion
Se_Riouswhat happens if I already paid the Advanced fee for Div-2?

We will be refunding anyone who has already paid the Adv fee, all you need to do is get in contact with me, and it will be refunded

posted 1 month ago
#1 RGL S4 Div Fees and 6s Staff Additions in TF2 General Discussion


TL;DR: Div-2 is using main fee, Div-1 using adv fee, and get your people paid up ASAP (minimum 5 tonight, 6 by first match, talk to an admin if you have questions).

posted 1 month ago
#3 A New Dawn for Morning Light in News


posted 1 month ago
#81 FrickMyNick LFT in Recruitment (looking for team)

not banned

posted 1 month ago
#21 Makkabeus lft in Recruitment (looking for team)

ahhhhh fuck it, bumping, read the post though, still not 100% on the season

posted 2 months ago
#123 RGL S3 Div 1 Happenings Thread in TF2 General Discussion

LMFAOOOO i shaved my head dude WILLINGLY, i don't give a fuck about my hair <3 xoxoxoxo

posted 2 months ago
#115 RGL S3 Div 1 Happenings Thread in TF2 General Discussion

All the matches are completed, so that means we move into playoffs! Top 4 teams will duke it out in a double elim bracket. The matches are Best Of 3 maps which are determined via pick ban. Teams are allowed to determine which maps they will play in steam, discord or some other messaging service, but they must be agreed to within the match comms for them to be valid (copy paste the chat log and have the other team agree to it). Once the maps are determined, message me and I'll input them into the match page itself. As always, if you have any questions, don't be afraid to message me.

posted 3 months ago
#135 RGL S3 Div 2 Happenings Thread in TF2 General Discussion

RGL's statement: https://rgl.gg/?r=40&a=1415

posted 3 months ago
#15 best team name in TF2? in TF2 General Discussion
nikkomodethis one got denied from rgl but it was funny

"speed running intercourse'

"Intercourse Speedrunners" was allowed, but rgl had locked names for invite like 5 mins before we put that in. We were still gonna use it tho

posted 3 months ago
#10625 stream highlights in Videos


posted 3 months ago
#10620 stream highlights in Videos


posted 3 months ago
#81 RGL S3 Div 1 Happenings Thread in TF2 General Discussion

As we move into metalworks week, I just want to remind everyone that rosters lock in 1 week. So get all your subs and roster riders on before then! Keep in mind that only 2 people can join a roster per week, so make sure to get all your players on before then

posted 3 months ago
#22 Looking to get back into comp. What's new? in TF2 General Discussion
ghadillialso they nerfed arrow building, it isn't a thing any more

Ghad is correct here, arrow building was nerfed for the most part. Arrows still build uber, but not to the same extent, so the playstyle change that came from them initially stuck around to this day.

posted 4 months ago
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