Would have to recode maps, as it's basically a new game mode. Not too hard though.

I guess you could make an argument that the team who is about to lose a point can just sit in it and recap it fast. But that also means that once the points shift, their respawn shifts and every battle where you trade players will go better for the team that was just awarded the point. So if a team just jumps on point to recap, I see that as a perfect chance for the defending team to jump in a uber onto the attacking team.

Also, if the attacking team chooses to hold their forward position, this gives a window for the defending team to trade players and evventually bully out the attacking team just because their respawns will be a lot closer than the attacking team's.

Feel free to trash this. I dont even know if this modification can even be implemented. Or if it would benefit the game or not.

If it's really a stalemate though, can't the team that had the point that was reassigned just quickly recap it? They presumably still have control of the area, regardless of the status of the actual point.

Edit: nevermind didn't see #3

It also promotes turtle D. Why try to push out when you can get the next point for free by waiting 5 minutes (Assuming a workaround is found to the fact that the team could easily recap the point)?

I feel like this thread is closely related (a response to?) the other thread on here about speeding up the game. I have the same thoughts on both:

The game does not need to be sped up. Stalemates are the result of a team being unwilling to move on or unaware of their advantages and the options available to them. If you stand blindly in the middle of your last point and let a team suicide a player into you over and over, refusing to push off of the 1 kill, you're playing scared. If you're sitting on granary mid, occasionally peeking garage to spam out and backing up as you get crushed on the choke point, unwilling to force an uber exchange, run a suicide, or overload the left side, you're playing bad.

Parking the bus is a somewhat different story, but the NA rules relatively rarely lead to a situation where this becomes viable, and even in these cases, the team that is down can reasonably run one-man suicides and use their uber defensively to delay for a 6v6 fight after the spawn.

Inevitably, lower-level matches will have stalemates because people don't know what they're doing. Watching non-pro starcraft isn't much fun either as you watch resources pile up and the proper timings go out the window. While the game may slow down at times in high-level matches, there's always *something* going on along the lines of a suicide to force a play, the losing team poking out a bit to edge their way in, etc. I don't think an artificial solution needs to be imposed to change this (and I think lowering the timelimit between point caps would probably lead to *more* of people playing the clock).

wow sigma destroyed my idea without even talking about it

now you can teach me how to play granary, plz

What about lowering the round time limit? or setting one up if there isn't (I've never seen a round end because of round time limit). Say, if there isn't a point capture in less than 5 minutes from the last capture, the round goes to the team that holds most points. That way you force the losing team to push and you give enough time for them to build uber.

it's like sigma says, but maybe we need a little league of esea so to speak, because in little league baseball you can't steal bases and stuff like that so if there was a rule change in open to guide new teams or to shut down dm only teams that would be amazing, it would outline the skill involved in good leader ship and eliminate players like blackdynamite (no hate cuz he's a fucking professional pipe assassin) from advancing out of open without the proper knowledge and inevitably ramp up the skill ceiling a bit and give all the teams a bit more of a challenge?

What the hell did I just read?

Did posting something reasonable hurt?

I think Ruwin said this a while ago, and I thought of it ages ago as well. Make uber build in 20 seconds and make it last for 4. You'd have an Uber at mid, which would make medic actually useful at mid, but also make the game less pick oriented, because if you wiped attacking their second, you could have uber ready to contest your second. The game would have about as many stalemates if the teams were good, but you'd see lower-level teams having matches like the LG-Mix^ gullywash match that ended 1-0 that go from last-to-last over and over again, would make the game much more tense, require more team work and less "go shot med, get cap", and make it more fun to watch because a single mistake doesn't damn your team. What if baseball was "1-strike you're out" instead of 3?

i agree with some of your points, and no being reasonable doesn't hurt hahah good joke though xD, i think there should be something like no stealing bases rule but i can't think of a good thing to implement which would limit dm teams and make smart players shine more, maybe something like a base coach in little league, someone/thing to point out good push opportunities but not so obvious i guess...it would be a very hard thing to do since tf2 is so situational but maybe someone has a better idea then me. As for their not being enough incentive to push i think the offensive spawns and being positioned near the large health packs are a great incentive, especially on maps like badlands or granary where you can literally save points from the spawn timers i don't think alot of teams think about things like that so they don't push.

EDIT: after some thought, i think 6's tf2 is pretty balanced the way it is, things like this aren't just conjured up. the way things work in 6's have been smoothed away over 5 years not just some players discussing it in a forum and saying hay, lets do this. i think something should be done to make lower level tf2 less 5-0ish but let's be honest, the only way to do that is for open teams to work harder and learn the game, that's what intermediate is for and this is why we need to stop pumping so many teams into IM season after season.

thank god people cast games, or a lot of them would be really boring

thank you casters

I've never heard anyone else mention this, just a thought I had a couple months ago and kept to myself. You want to get rid of stalemates, you get rid of the main thing that causes them. Either make it so ubers don't exist(possibly even get rid of overhealing, but that might open up some new meta where teams don't even run a medic anymore, but on the other hand that might not necessarily be a bad thing), or make them charge really really fast and only last a few seconds.

#14 That idea has been around in competitive circles for a while, apparently. Ruwin mentioned it in an interview we did at i46.

That sounds like using the Quick-Fix in 6's.

But wouldn't that just encourage the team that doesn't have mid to turtle hard on their point?

Where can I find this?

This is a bad idea, and even counter-productive. You want to stop stalemates, so you reward 'defending' teams for stalemating? Also, the 'attacking' team would already be on the point that's given away, so what's stopping them from recapping instantly?

If there were no stalemates I wouldn't be able to eat during scrims

I think tf2 is more prone to stalemate than most other competitive games(although to be fair there are a LOT of games that are slow/boring), however I dunno if there's a particular 'fix' that would work well. I think it's mostly just the mindset of the teams, not the game itself.

ubers don't cause stalemates, maps/poor play do.

Imagine how impossible it would be for new viewers to follow a TF2 where there weren't stalemates allowing casters to explain what the hell just happened.

mind fucked myself

all games have stalemates

watch a duel on dm13

or chinese dota

or a TvT match up in sc2

what makes tf2 "slow" is the mechanics. players move slowly with weapons that do small amounts of damage

man the fuck up and push

also shortening uber timing would actually make the "problem" worse. most stalemates are caused by people being to scared to take a fight where they are going to get forced through a choke point meanwhile the enemy kites away from them until the uber is down. Having a 3 second uber would not change the mechanics of a choke point, but merely make it that much harder to get anything done with a bad uber and let the enemy team hold a bit more ground before countering after the fact.

Want to make the game fast? Just double the current speed of all the classes, but cut the dmg and health in half so it's still balanced.

invuln/kritz are vital to prevent stalemates in tf2, because they're the only push-buff mechanic that the game really even has.
yes, there are mini-"uber"s like the buff banner around, but they're nowhere near as vital as the "perfect power"s that the ubers are.

one of the best ways to make the game faster paced and more aggressive without harming its dynamics would be to replace the stock medigun with the kritzkreig, but because of weird design decisions by valve (crits don't affect buildings) it would make engineer more powerful, which is a massive no-no when you're trying to speed the game up.

ESEA 6s is already the most rapid that the game has ever gotten.

cutting health and damage in half doesn't do anything but make damage rounding more apparent. I don't get your argument. What you should be doing for what you're going for is making everything do more damage and increasing the respawn rate, as well as making point caps both go and decay really fast. But I don't think things like that are necessary.

How is in any way the maps' fault??
The map doesent decide when the teams push, the teams does.