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Impatient scout problems.
posted in Q/A Help
1
#1
0 Frags +

Alright, well here's how it goes down, in my teams scrims during stalemates & other various things I get very bored, and often over-extend. I usually do get at least a pick during this process, but it is usually just a trade; 1:1's. Which I find are probably useless. (obviously the solution is don't over extend, I know), however I kind of want to know when are the good times of getting aggressive, other than obvious team spamming them out crap. And where to hold on various maps, (mostly atm gully/viaduct).

Sometimes in gully & many other maps, process for example I'm watching computer & a soldier kills me with splash damage easily, when I'm holding just out of the health packs range. Or in gully: I try to watch flank; but get too aggressive and soldiers pick me w/ a scout. I guess sometimes I get baited, but that is not entirely the case.

I'd also appreciate maybe an IM-Invite scout's POV (after the xmas update, since all demo's are broken before then). For these maps, (process. via & gully mostly)

Alright, well here's how it goes down, in my teams scrims during stalemates & other various things I get very bored, and often over-extend. I usually do get at least a pick during this process, but it is usually just a trade; 1:1's. Which I find are probably useless. (obviously the solution is don't over extend, I know), however I kind of want to know when are the good times of getting aggressive, other than obvious team spamming them out crap. And where to hold on various maps, (mostly atm gully/viaduct).

Sometimes in gully & many other maps, process for example I'm watching computer & a soldier kills me with splash damage easily, when I'm holding just out of the health packs range. Or in gully: I try to watch flank; but get too aggressive and soldiers pick me w/ a scout. I guess sometimes I get baited, but that is not entirely the case.

I'd also appreciate maybe an IM-Invite scout's POV (after the xmas update, since all demo's are broken before then). For these maps, (process. via & gully mostly)
2
#2
0 Frags +

I would say watch a stream or stream vod, but realized I don't know any scout streamers :x (shrugger's stream might have some vods, though he's been streaming other games recently. meb also should have some scout vods). I don't think just watching a demo will help you without having the mumble comms to go with it, as a lot of what a scout on flank may do will depend on comms (timing flanks and pushing with the team).

Someone recommend some scout stream vods for him ><.

EDIT:
Meb's twitch has some vods: http://www.twitch.tv/mebrillo/videos

I would say watch a stream or stream vod, but realized I don't know any scout streamers :x (shrugger's stream might have some vods, though he's been streaming other games recently. meb also should have some scout vods). I don't think just watching a demo will help you without having the mumble comms to go with it, as a lot of what a scout on flank may do will depend on comms (timing flanks and pushing with the team).

Someone recommend some scout stream vods for him ><.

EDIT:
Meb's twitch has some vods: http://www.twitch.tv/mebrillo/videos
3
#3
-1 Frags +
EDIT:
Meb's twitch has some vods: http://www.twitch.tv/mebrillo/videos

ty =)

[quote]
EDIT:
Meb's twitch has some vods: http://www.twitch.tv/mebrillo/videos[/quote]

ty =)
4
#4
0 Frags +

just play safer?

you don't want to be holding a small enclosed space like computer by yourself unless you're outside of the door (meaning you can see the other door/healthpack in front of you), your main purpose is to call/watch the flanks and if you get picked, then you're probably holding way too forward

if you're getting picked like that all the time, maybe you should ask your roamer to play with you while holding

just play safer?

you don't want to be holding a small enclosed space like computer by yourself unless you're outside of the door (meaning you can see the other door/healthpack in front of you), your main purpose is to call/watch the flanks and if you get picked, then you're probably holding way too forward

if you're getting picked like that all the time, maybe you should ask your roamer to play with you while holding
5
#5
1 Frags +
badgersSometimes in gully & many other maps, process for example I'm watching computer & a soldier kills me with splash damage easily, when I'm holding just out of the health packs range. Or in gully: I try to watch flank; but get too aggressive and soldiers pick me w/ a scout. I guess sometimes I get baited, but that is not entirely the case.

The good news is this problem is very easy to fix. From what you have described it seems like you and your roamer just aren't synced up well enough to play off of each other's damage and positioning.

Something very important for you to personally do is consciously be the bait that gets your roamer to output damage on the other team. It could be that either you or your roamer have a w+m1 problem, but honestly it doesn't matter who "the problem" is. The blame game won't fix this situation. The only solution for your flank's situation is for you and your roamer to actively keep track of each other's positioning.

If you don't see your roamer around then it should be an immediate red flag for you to not try to make plays, because most likely you're going to end up getting baited to death. If he doesn't see you around it should be an immediate red flag in his mind to wait until you're there to help. You and your roamer need to have an understanding that you need to be patient with your positioning until you are both in a good position to trade damage with the enemy flank.

It's really really simple once you practice it. I hope that made sense and helps you and your flank out. :)

[quote=badgers]Sometimes in gully & many other maps, process for example I'm watching computer & a soldier kills me with splash damage easily, when I'm holding just out of the health packs range. Or in gully: I try to watch flank; but get too aggressive and soldiers pick me w/ a scout. I guess sometimes I get baited, but that is not entirely the case.[/quote]

The good news is this problem is very easy to fix. From what you have described it seems like you and your roamer just aren't synced up well enough to play off of each other's damage and positioning.

Something very important for you to personally do is consciously be the bait that gets your roamer to output damage on the other team. It could be that either you or your roamer have a w+m1 problem, but honestly it doesn't matter who "the problem" is. The blame game won't fix this situation. The only solution for your flank's situation is for you and your roamer to actively keep track of each other's positioning.

If you don't see your roamer around then it should be an immediate red flag for you to not try to make plays, because most likely you're going to end up getting baited to death. If he doesn't see you around it should be an immediate red flag in his mind to wait until you're there to help. [b]You and your roamer need to have an understanding that you need to be patient with your positioning until you are both in a good position to trade damage with the enemy flank.[/b]

It's really really simple once you practice it. I hope that made sense and helps you and your flank out. :)
6
#6
0 Frags +

Basically, if you're holding you're either waiting for them to do something stupid or waiting for your team to push. You know that pushing into the next "area" (mid, yard, etc) will likely result in your death. Capitalize on that fact and use it on your enemy. I read in a guide that your team is either pushing, holding or falling back at all times. If you're in a stalemate either you don't have the advantage on uber or you're just not capitalizing on your aggression correctly. If it's even or if you don't have the uber advantage as a TEAM it is important to play it safe and do your best to both maintain aggression so that you don't lose the point for free and trying to work picks to get into a position to push again. If you're finding yourself holding know that the only time you can ever push into their "area" is if your TEAM has an advantage. The other team knows this and if they're doing their job they can rely on health and manpower to push flawlessly. Chances are they're not invite and it is still possible for your team to maintain structure in your given area, not take too much damage, try and work the picks and their uber (e.g., sending roamer to pop or spamming a choke as they push in), and keep your whole team in a good position to either re-push, or fall back and work the same approach until you have an advantage. As far as how to play better as scout, always remember never to go past half-way between a point unless you are 100% sure you're going to get a pick or do something to give your team an advantage. Scout is a fragile class and positioning yourself in a place like computer is a bad way to maintain advantage. Always look for corners and high spots that are difficult for soldiers to shoot you from. When I'm watching computers I like to look at it from the valley so that I can have eyes on sewer and choke and because lobby's very close. I have the added benefit of being able to maintain aggression in the area with the help of soldiers on bats (roamers help here) and the medium healthkit that is below a lip. If a scout comes into your area, hide behind that lip and just spam him and make him leave. Maintaining the advantage means you either get a pic or he's forced to leave due to his health. Either way, you don't die in the process. Scout is all about managing your aggression and giving it out in small doses. You may see pros land meatshots but that's because they can play the blindspot. A good analogy for scouts is trying to sack the quarterback. You're going to want to come out of nowhere and hit them with all you've got. If soldiers and scouts are watching you at flank and killing you, make sure you're not trying to win a fight you can't. Call for help or backup and get some health. As long as you don't die, you are still able to do damage to the other team and help.

Basically, if you're holding you're either waiting for them to do something stupid or waiting for your team to push. You know that pushing into the next "area" (mid, yard, etc) will likely result in your death. Capitalize on that fact and use it on your enemy. I read in a guide that your team is either pushing, holding or falling back at all times. If you're in a stalemate either you don't have the advantage on uber or you're just not capitalizing on your aggression correctly. If it's even or if you don't have the uber advantage as a TEAM it is important to play it safe and do your best to both maintain aggression so that you don't lose the point for free and trying to work picks to get into a position to push again. If you're finding yourself holding know that the only time you can ever push into their "area" is if your TEAM has an advantage. The other team knows this and if they're doing their job they can rely on health and manpower to push flawlessly. Chances are they're not invite and it is still possible for your team to maintain structure in your given area, not take too much damage, try and work the picks and their uber (e.g., sending roamer to pop or spamming a choke as they push in), and keep your whole team in a good position to either re-push, or fall back and work the same approach until you have an advantage. As far as how to play better as scout, always remember never to go past half-way between a point unless you are 100% sure you're going to get a pick or do something to give your team an advantage. Scout is a fragile class and positioning yourself in a place like computer is a bad way to maintain advantage. Always look for corners and high spots that are difficult for soldiers to shoot you from. When I'm watching computers I like to look at it from the valley so that I can have eyes on sewer and choke and because lobby's very close. I have the added benefit of being able to maintain aggression in the area with the help of soldiers on bats (roamers help here) and the medium healthkit that is below a lip. If a scout comes into your area, hide behind that lip and just spam him and make him leave. Maintaining the advantage means you either get a pic or he's forced to leave due to his health. Either way, you don't die in the process. Scout is all about managing your aggression and giving it out in small doses. You may see pros land meatshots but that's because they can play the blindspot. A good analogy for scouts is trying to sack the quarterback. You're going to want to come out of nowhere and hit them with all you've got. If soldiers and scouts are watching you at flank and killing you, make sure you're not trying to win a fight you can't. Call for help or backup and get some health. As long as you don't die, you are still able to do damage to the other team and help.
7
#7
0 Frags +

Well first and foremost what are your scout partner and roamer doing? You shouldn't be alone on the flank, so you shouldn't be getting 2v1ed. If your teammates are down at the time then you should be as far back as possible, ready to call it and then run. Scouts should never operate on the flank alone.

Scouts also won't usually be the ones trying to break through an established defense for a pick. So dash all ideas of glory frags. Leave that to your roamer. The best times for a full flank by a Scout are during transitions, before a full defense is created. Once they're setup though it's not your job to break it down. So just focus on staying alive and assisting the roamer, waiting for your chance to push.

Well first and foremost what are your scout partner and roamer doing? You shouldn't be alone on the flank, so you shouldn't be getting 2v1ed. If your teammates are down at the time then you should be as far back as possible, ready to call it and then run. Scouts should never operate on the flank alone.

Scouts also won't usually be the ones trying to break through an established defense for a pick. So dash all ideas of glory frags. Leave that to your roamer. The best times for a full flank by a Scout are during transitions, before a full defense is created. Once they're setup though it's not your job to break it down. So just focus on staying alive and assisting the roamer, waiting for your chance to push.
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