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KotH_Cascade
1
#1
0 Frags +

Cascade is a koth map that emphasizes open spaces and height variation while maintaining class balance for casual and competitive gameplay. Based on classic koth design with several unique layout changes and additions. Currently on version B6.

Download

Workshop

TF2Maps.net

Screenshots

Cascade is a koth map that emphasizes open spaces and height variation while maintaining class balance for casual and competitive gameplay. Based on classic koth design with several unique layout changes and additions. Currently on version B6.

[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/cascade.4176/download?version=11529]Download[/url]

[url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1133407330]Workshop[/url]

[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/cascade.4176/]TF2Maps.net[/url]

[url=https://imgur.com/a/QvgE8]Screenshots[/url]
2
#2
6 Frags +

10/10 you made a rotationally symmetric koth map.

That aside I'll check this out when I get home and see what it actually looks like.

10/10 you made a rotationally symmetric koth map.

That aside I'll check this out when I get home and see what it actually looks like.
3
#3
7 Frags +

My feedback is in this imgur album - do note that because we're here on teamfortress.tv I'm assuming you're aiming for competitive use, so my feedback is going to be 6v6 focused. I personally think it's a better fit for a pub at the moment.

http://imgur.com/a/VNLSd

Overall the layout seems decent, but it doesn't strike me as a 6's map.

My feedback is in this imgur album - do note that because we're here on teamfortress.tv I'm assuming you're aiming for competitive use, so my feedback is going to be 6v6 focused. I personally think it's a better fit for a pub at the moment.

http://imgur.com/a/VNLSd

Overall the layout seems decent, but it doesn't strike me as a 6's map.
4
#4
4 Frags +

A4 - A6 Changelogs:

A3 → A4

-Significantly reduced elevation of the point and surrounding terrain
-Added elevated flank passage left of mid
-Added waterfalls
-Reworked underground area
-Reduced overall size
-Removed obscure entrance/exit routes
-Added more direct entrance closer to mid
-Replaced medium health/ammo with a single full health kit
-Removed window dropdown from spawn
-Added cover to block ridiculous sightlines created as a result of lowering mid
-Added direct path from second courtyard to mid
-Rearranged some trees/rocks
-Replaced small health in main building with a medium health kit
-Various other minor changes

A4 → A5

Reduced distance between battlements and mid
Removed building on the far left of mid
Made path from left battlements to waterfall flank tunnel more direct/exposed
Removed underground area (RIP in piece)
Removed/blocked off unnecessary spaces
Adjusted trees/rocks near mid to prevent players from hiding inside them
General optimization
-Various other minor changes

A5 → A6

Reworked mid
Added new smaller underground route
Moved waterfalls so they do not obscure tunnel flank routes
Added cubemap for window reflections

A4 - A6 Changelogs:

A3 → A4

-Significantly reduced elevation of the point and surrounding terrain
-Added elevated flank passage left of mid
-Added waterfalls
-Reworked underground area
-Reduced overall size
-Removed obscure entrance/exit routes
-Added more direct entrance closer to mid
-Replaced medium health/ammo with a single full health kit
-Removed window dropdown from spawn
-Added cover to block ridiculous sightlines created as a result of lowering mid
-Added direct path from second courtyard to mid
-Rearranged some trees/rocks
-Replaced small health in main building with a medium health kit
-Various other minor changes



A4 → A5

Reduced distance between battlements and mid
Removed building on the far left of mid
Made path from left battlements to waterfall flank tunnel more direct/exposed
Removed underground area (RIP in piece)
Removed/blocked off unnecessary spaces
Adjusted trees/rocks near mid to prevent players from hiding inside them
General optimization
-Various other minor changes

A5 → A6

Reworked mid
Added new smaller underground route
Moved waterfalls so they do not obscure tunnel flank routes
Added cubemap for window reflections
5
#5
1 Frags +

Album: http://imgur.com/a/EENnX

#1 I don't think the doors need a whole lot of work, i like how similar it is to the room leading to cliff on Viaduct, but compounded with the doors on the other side i think something should be done here too

For #2/3 you could maybe play with removing the hallway altogether and cutting out the wall my crosshair is on in #2, or widening the hallway and shifting the staircase towards the edge of the map to eliminate the double 90. the double 90 on top of the narrow doors would make it very easy for a single soldier to hold this door + he can safely jump over the wall on the flank back to the point if he gets overwhelmed

#4 the slope down into the basement seems like it would be very in the way. shifting it to the side and throwing a turn into it so you enter the underground from the side walls instead of the front/back walls would probably be better.

#5/6 you can use these trees to get a lot of vision & good spam. on the other set of trees by the cave entrances, you can also hide between the trees and the rocks/wall and be completely hidden from view. not ideal.

#7/8 i hate snipers please make them useless

Not seeing anything else glaring in this version, I like the pack placement and I didn't notice any clipping bugs or holes in the world in my run through it. Loving the direction you're taking with it so far and I hope there can be some serious testing on it soon!

Album: http://imgur.com/a/EENnX

#1 I don't think the doors need a whole lot of work, i like how similar it is to the room leading to cliff on Viaduct, but compounded with the doors on the other side i think something should be done here too

For #2/3 you could maybe play with removing the hallway altogether and cutting out the wall my crosshair is on in #2, or widening the hallway and shifting the staircase towards the edge of the map to eliminate the double 90. the double 90 on top of the narrow doors would make it very easy for a single soldier to hold this door + he can safely jump over the wall on the flank back to the point if he gets overwhelmed

#4 the slope down into the basement seems like it would be very in the way. shifting it to the side and throwing a turn into it so you enter the underground from the side walls instead of the front/back walls would probably be better.

#5/6 you can use these trees to get a lot of vision & good spam. on the other set of trees by the cave entrances, you can also hide between the trees and the rocks/wall and be completely hidden from view. not ideal.

#7/8 i hate snipers please make them useless

Not seeing anything else glaring in this version, I like the pack placement and I didn't notice any clipping bugs or holes in the world in my run through it. Loving the direction you're taking with it so far and I hope there can be some serious testing on it soon!
6
#6
3 Frags +

See OP for updated screenshots/download link

Alpha 7 Changelog:

  • Added rock arch thing over mid
  • Removed/adjusted some rocks around mid
  • Improved clipping
  • Reduced size of underground area
  • Reduced the slope of ramp leading to underground area
  • Added point-facing doorway to connecting hallway at mid
  • Removed trees
  • Added trucks
  • Added props in spawn courtyard
  • Adjusted size of highground connecting battlements to cliff area
  • Adjusted sightlines
  • Adjusted size/position of various health/ammo packs
  • Various other minor changes
See OP for updated screenshots/download link
[u]
Alpha 7 Changelog:[/u]

[list]
[*] Added rock arch thing over mid
[*] Removed/adjusted some rocks around mid
[*] Improved clipping
[*] Reduced size of underground area
[*] Reduced the slope of ramp leading to underground area
[*] Added point-facing doorway to connecting hallway at mid
[*]Removed trees
[*]Added trucks
[*]Added props in spawn courtyard
[*]Adjusted size of highground connecting battlements to cliff area
[*]Adjusted sightlines
[*]Adjusted size/position of various health/ammo packs
[*]Various other minor changes
[/list]
7
#7
1 Frags +

Alpha 8 Changelog:

  • Reduced number of rocks at mid
  • Improved clipping
  • Reduced cap time
  • Added cover to further limit sightlines
  • Recessed waterfalls into cliffside
  • Reduced width of central battlements
  • Slightly decreased distance between spawn and mid
  • Added window connecting house to right side area
  • Adjusted health/ammo
  • Added more cubemaps
  • Remade arch over mid
  • Various other minor changes
[u]Alpha 8 Changelog:[/u]

[list]
[*] Reduced number of rocks at mid
[*] Improved clipping
[*] Reduced cap time
[*] Added cover to further limit sightlines
[*] Recessed waterfalls into cliffside
[*] Reduced width of central battlements
[*] Slightly decreased distance between spawn and mid
[*] Added window connecting house to right side area
[*] Adjusted health/ammo
[*] Added more cubemaps
[*] Remade arch over mid
[*] Various other minor changes

[/list]
8
#8
3 Frags +

Alpha 9 Changelog:

  • Reworked underground to accommodate a central health pack
  • Increased height of waterfall flank and removed access ramps at mid
  • Adjusted dimensions of window connecting house and right side area
  • Various other minor changes
[u]Alpha 9 Changelog:[/u]

[list]
[*] Reworked underground to accommodate a central health pack
[*] Increased height of waterfall flank and removed access ramps at mid
[*] Adjusted dimensions of window connecting house and right side area
[*] Various other minor changes
[/list]
9
#9
3 Frags +

This map has been playtested and pug'd in Highlander recently to some fairly good reception so far! I took place in one half and got some general feedback bullet points to share from the players involved. I'm directing other players to this thread too in case I misstated them or they have more to add. Keep in mind only one half was played and in HL rather than 6's, so strategies are liable to change:

*Underneath the point got the most point of criticism. It can be held very strongly by a Soldier or any class that can deal splash damage, thanks to large number of pillars underneath. The elevation changes/slopes were not an issue so much as the pillars, which could cause a Soldier to hold the bottom pretty strongly on his own.

*The cave 'windows' on either side of the point were frequently used by Snipers, but it's pretty hard to actually jump the Sniper as Soldier. Snipers can be spammed out from splash easy, but they can just as easily back up and get buffs and then walk back in. Some players suggested opening up the cave to make it somewhat like Product's cliff: keep a see-through fence as border but at least open up the top.

*There's a set of rocks on the point that look like you can crouch jump from them to the cave 'windows' but they're just out of reach. Players weren't sure if it'd be a good idea or not if the rocks were put closer to the windows so that classes can jump between them. Some thought it'd be a good way to get up to Snipers in the window (as Spy especially) but others thought that a team just capturing the point could then jump up the rocks into the other team's cave and forward hold too easy.

Some general positive notes I had:

*As an Engineer, this map is very fair to minis. The map has very steep elevation changes that force minisentries to look up when attacking the point which reduces their effective range and makes them easily spammable from blind stickies or rockets. Any point where you can wrangle a mini from (like the cave window or battlements) can be easily countered from spam or other Snipers.

*Heavy is very strong to hold on the point, thanks to the medium ammo pack and small health pack just above the entrance leading under the point.

*This map plays very similarly to Warmtic but with Sniper sightlines altered or removed. Warmtic has been played before in HL and many HL players were familiar with navigating Cascade. It's also considerably more optimized than Warmtic; no players reported unusual frame drops.

This map has been playtested and pug'd in Highlander recently to some fairly good reception so far! I took place in one half and got some general feedback bullet points to share from the players involved. I'm directing other players to this thread too in case I misstated them or they have more to add. Keep in mind only one half was played and in HL rather than 6's, so strategies are liable to change:

*Underneath the point got the most point of criticism. It can be held very strongly by a Soldier or any class that can deal splash damage, thanks to large number of pillars underneath. The elevation changes/slopes were not an issue so much as the pillars, which could cause a Soldier to hold the bottom pretty strongly on his own.

*The cave 'windows' on either side of the point were frequently used by Snipers, but it's pretty hard to actually jump the Sniper as Soldier. Snipers can be spammed out from splash easy, but they can just as easily back up and get buffs and then walk back in. Some players suggested opening up the cave to make it somewhat like Product's cliff: keep a see-through fence as border but at least open up the top.

*There's a set of rocks on the point that look like you can crouch jump from them to the cave 'windows' but they're just out of reach. Players weren't sure if it'd be a good idea or not if the rocks were put closer to the windows so that classes can jump between them. Some thought it'd be a good way to get up to Snipers in the window (as Spy especially) but others thought that a team just capturing the point could then jump up the rocks into the other team's cave and forward hold too easy.

Some general positive notes I had:

*As an Engineer, this map is very fair to minis. The map has very steep elevation changes that force minisentries to look up when attacking the point which reduces their effective range and makes them easily spammable from blind stickies or rockets. Any point where you can wrangle a mini from (like the cave window or battlements) can be easily countered from spam or other Snipers.

*Heavy is very strong to hold on the point, thanks to the medium ammo pack and small health pack just above the entrance leading under the point.

*This map plays very similarly to Warmtic but with Sniper sightlines altered or removed. Warmtic has been played before in HL and many HL players were familiar with navigating Cascade. It's also considerably more optimized than Warmtic; no players reported unusual frame drops.
10
#10
0 Frags +

Thanks a ton for the feedback! Regarding Cascade being more optimized than Warmtic, keep in mind that you played an alpha version with minimal texture and prop detailing. The art-passed versions (currently anything more recent than version a9) have been known to cause some performance issues that i'm working on resolving.

Thanks a ton for the feedback! Regarding Cascade being more optimized than Warmtic, keep in mind that you played an alpha version with minimal texture and prop detailing. The art-passed versions (currently anything more recent than version a9) have been known to cause some performance issues that i'm working on resolving.
11
#11
0 Frags +

the screenshots on the original post are broken/dead
also you can just upload them all at once to imgur so people dont have to click one by one
anyone want to try the mapt out? https://tf2center.com/lobbies/859345

the screenshots on the original post are broken/dead
also you can just upload them all at once to imgur so people dont have to click one by one
anyone want to try the mapt out? https://tf2center.com/lobbies/859345
12
#12
3 Frags +

I've created an imgur album with screeshots of the latest version. If anyone is planning to play the map I would greatly appreciate if you could record and share demos so that I can closely observe how the map is played competitively. Thanks!

Beta 1-4 Changelogs

A9 → B1

Began art-pass process
Widened right side route to mid
Slightly lowered mid
Removed small health kit behind rocks at mid
Removed unnecessary barrier at left side spawn exit
Various other minor changes

B1 → B2

Optimization improvements
Various other minor changes

B2 → B3

Continued art-passing process
Added cave flank route connecting right yard to mid
Added cover to left balcony area to break up a powerful sightline
Lowered rocks at mid to increase space around the point
Removed large rocks on the right side of mid
Removed small health behind rocks at mid
Improved clipping
Optimization improvements
Various other minor changes

B3 → B4

Continued art-passing process
Removed excessive cover from left side walkway
Slightly widened narrow doorways
Clipping improvements
Optimization improvements
Various other minor changes

I've created an[url=http://imgur.com/a/R1VHc] imgur album[/url] with screeshots of the latest version. If anyone is planning to play the map I would greatly appreciate if you could record and share demos so that I can closely observe how the map is played competitively. Thanks!

[u]Beta 1-4 Changelogs[/u]

A9 → B1

Began art-pass process
Widened right side route to mid
Slightly lowered mid
Removed small health kit behind rocks at mid
Removed unnecessary barrier at left side spawn exit
Various other minor changes

B1 → B2

Optimization improvements
Various other minor changes

B2 → B3

Continued art-passing process
Added cave flank route connecting right yard to mid
Added cover to left balcony area to break up a powerful sightline
Lowered rocks at mid to increase space around the point
Removed large rocks on the right side of mid
Removed small health behind rocks at mid
Improved clipping
Optimization improvements
Various other minor changes

B3 → B4

Continued art-passing process
Removed excessive cover from left side walkway
Slightly widened narrow doorways
Clipping improvements
Optimization improvements
Various other minor changes
13
#13
3 Frags +

Beta 5

Screenshots

Changelog:

  • Continued art-passing process
  • Removed lower right side cave route
  • Added rock on right side of mid
  • Removed truck at mid
  • Removed pillar structure from underground
  • Slightly lowered arch above mid
  • Added cover to left side of battlements
  • Added small ammo pack under battlements
  • Changed medium health and ammo in main building to small
  • Made right side wooden cover opaque
  • Bullet-blocked waterfalls to so they can no longer hide stickies
  • Improved clipping
  • Optimization improvements
  • Various other minor changes
[u]Beta 5[/u]

[url=https://imgur.com/a/W7XtN]Screenshots[/url]

Changelog:

[list]
[*] Continued art-passing process
[*] Removed lower right side cave route
[*] Added rock on right side of mid
[*]Removed truck at mid
[*]Removed pillar structure from underground
[*]Slightly lowered arch above mid
[*]Added cover to left side of battlements
[*]Added small ammo pack under battlements
[*]Changed medium health and ammo in main building to small
[*]Made right side wooden cover opaque
[*]Bullet-blocked waterfalls to so they can no longer hide stickies
[*]Improved clipping
[*]Optimization improvements
[*]Various other minor changes
[/list]
14
#14
3 Frags +

looking good!

looking good!
15
#15
2 Frags +

I've made a small update to fix a few issues that I didn't catch earlier. If anyone is planning to test the map please make sure you're running version b5d.

I've made a small update to fix a few issues that I didn't catch earlier. If anyone is planning to test the map please make sure you're running [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/cascade.4176/download?version=11432]version b5d[/url].
16
#16
1 Frags +

So I just looked around this again today after realizing that I had missed a PM for a few weeks, I have to say I really like where this map is going. It's looking a lot better, both visually and gameplay wise. I'd like to see some people try it out for 6's and see what works, etc.

So I just looked around this again today after realizing that I had missed a PM for a few weeks, I have to say I really like where this map is going. It's looking a lot better, both visually and gameplay wise. I'd like to see some people try it out for 6's and see what works, etc.
17
#17
1 Frags +

Wow this map has developed nicely visually. It looks great!

Wow this map has developed nicely visually. It looks great!
18
#18
3 Frags +

Beta 6

Download

Screenshots

Subscribe on the workshop!

Changelog:

  • Continued art-passing process
  • Optimization improvements
  • Clipping improvements/fixes
  • Fixed rockets going through grates at mid
  • Fixed being able to build in spawn
  • Various other minor changes
Show Content
I probably won't have time to work on this map or play tf2 for a while. Thanks so much to everyone who tested, provided feedback, and offered advice. Without you the process of creating this map could not have been the incredibly fun and rewarding experience that it was. I look forward to officially finishing Cascade and starting new mapping projects in the future.
[u]Beta 6[/u]

[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/cascade.4176/download?version=11529]Download[/url]

[url=https://imgur.com/a/QvgE8]Screenshots[/url]

[url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1133407330]Subscribe on the workshop![/url]

Changelog:

[list]
[*] Continued art-passing process
[*] Optimization improvements
[*] Clipping improvements/fixes
[*] Fixed rockets going through grates at mid
[*] Fixed being able to build in spawn
[*] Various other minor changes
[/list]

[spoiler]I probably won't have time to work on this map or play tf2 for a while. Thanks so much to everyone who tested, provided feedback, and offered advice. Without you the process of creating this map could not have been the incredibly fun and rewarding experience that it was. I look forward to officially finishing Cascade and starting new mapping projects in the future.[/spoiler]
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