When thinking deeply about TF2's competitive future(lol), i realized that not only is the TF2 competitive scene very small, the entire tf2 scene is small in general. TF2 is only 1/7 the size of csgo and 1/11 of Dota 2 (according to steam charts). In order to have a thriving competitive scene, you will need a large player base first, which TF2 doesn't really have. How can we bring more people in to TF2? Then after that, how can we bring more people into the competitive scene?
How can we bring more people into TF2?
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TF2 General Discussion
When thinking deeply about TF2's competitive future(lol), i realized that not only is the TF2 competitive scene very small, the entire tf2 scene is small in general. TF2 is only 1/7 the size of csgo and 1/11 of Dota 2 (according to steam charts). In order to have a thriving competitive scene, you will need a large player base first, which TF2 doesn't really have. How can we bring more people in to TF2? Then after that, how can we bring more people into the competitive scene?
-leelol?
comma placement error, edited. do u understand now
[quote=-lee]lol?[/quote]
comma placement error, edited. do u understand now
comma placement error, edited. do u understand now
collymake a stream list on the main menu
that doesn't bring newer players into the game. did you read my post
[quote=colly]make a stream list on the main menu[/quote]
that doesn't bring newer players into the game. did you read my post
that doesn't bring newer players into the game. did you read my post
everytime you rank up in mm, you'll get a random hat.
that'll attract a lot of people into mm / comp.
everytime you rank up in mm, you'll get a random hat.
that'll attract a lot of people into mm / comp.
that'll attract a lot of people into mm / comp.
and why do some people -frag for no reason on this website seriously i've seen so many legitimate serious comments getting -fragged to hell for no reason.
and why do some people -frag for no reason on this website seriously i've seen so many legitimate serious comments getting -fragged to hell for no reason.
Valve needs to put money and time into it (the competitive side) like CS:GO and dota. If blizzard can make hearthstone be taken as seriously as it is right now then valve can make tf2 a serious thing too i think.
OW is super appealing because you just click play now and boom youre in a game. So matchmaking is a must as well. Soon i hope
Valve needs to put money and time into it (the competitive side) like CS:GO and dota. If blizzard can make hearthstone be taken as seriously as it is right now then valve can make tf2 a serious thing too i think.
OW is super appealing because you just click play now and boom youre in a game. So matchmaking is a must as well. Soon i hope
OW is super appealing because you just click play now and boom youre in a game. So matchmaking is a must as well. Soon i hope
Make it a good spectator sport. Let's not kid ourselves here, comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like cs, smite or even hearthstone.
Make it a good spectator sport. Let's not kid ourselves here, comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like cs, smite or even hearthstone.
Serious and eSport are typically not words associated with tf2 for people who have put little to no time playing it, given its cartoony look.
Serious and eSport are typically not words associated with tf2 for people who have put little to no time playing it, given its cartoony look.
Spe0Make it a good spectator sport. Let's not kid ourselves here, comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like cs, smite or even hearthstone.
Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.
[quote=Spe0]Make it a good spectator sport. Let's not kid ourselves here, comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like cs, smite or even hearthstone.[/quote]
Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.
Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.
eeeSpe0Make it a good spectator sport. Let's not kid ourselves here, comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like cs, smite or even hearthstone.Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.
TF2 is obviously always going to be more difficult to watch than other games, but I feel like the casters and cameraman sometimes make it a bit harder. People constantly say the cameraman and casters don't always understand what's going on and they usually follow the wrong action, but it really is true. Rarely do I hear casters talk about what they think will happen/should happen based on ubers/numbers, keeping it super simple. There still are a few casters who do a pretty good job of this, like Avast, however. It's just kind of upsetting to watch casts where someone dies and the casters are so confused why the other team pushed.
[quote=eee][quote=Spe0]Make it a good spectator sport. Let's not kid ourselves here, comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like cs, smite or even hearthstone.[/quote]
Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.[/quote]
TF2 is obviously always going to be more difficult to watch than other games, but I feel like the casters and cameraman sometimes make it a bit harder. People constantly say the cameraman and casters don't always understand what's going on and they usually follow the wrong action, but it really is true. Rarely do I hear casters talk about what they think will happen/should happen based on ubers/numbers, keeping it super simple. There still are a few casters who do a pretty good job of this, like Avast, however. It's just kind of upsetting to watch casts where someone dies and the casters are so confused why the other team pushed.
Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.[/quote]
TF2 is obviously always going to be more difficult to watch than other games, but I feel like the casters and cameraman sometimes make it a bit harder. People constantly say the cameraman and casters don't always understand what's going on and they usually follow the wrong action, but it really is true. Rarely do I hear casters talk about what they think will happen/should happen based on ubers/numbers, keeping it super simple. There still are a few casters who do a pretty good job of this, like Avast, however. It's just kind of upsetting to watch casts where someone dies and the casters are so confused why the other team pushed.
eeeSpe0Make it a good spectator sport. Let's not kid ourselves here, comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like cs, smite or even hearthstone.Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.
What do u propose to do to then? What do u think that we or Valve can do to improve tf2's viewing experience? Also, why did people downvote my comment? Is it because people seriously think that tf2 is as fun to watch as those games or is it because of my vague use of the word "good"?
[quote=eee][quote=Spe0]Make it a good spectator sport. Let's not kid ourselves here, comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like cs, smite or even hearthstone.[/quote]
Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.[/quote]
What do u propose to do to then? What do u think that we or Valve can do to improve tf2's viewing experience? Also, why did people downvote my comment? Is it because people seriously think that tf2 is as fun to watch as those games or is it because of my vague use of the word "good"?
Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.[/quote]
What do u propose to do to then? What do u think that we or Valve can do to improve tf2's viewing experience? Also, why did people downvote my comment? Is it because people seriously think that tf2 is as fun to watch as those games or is it because of my vague use of the word "good"?
I've always wondered, why are all games cast from the player's point of view? in CSGO, lots of the time the camera pans out to show a specific area where most of the action is taking place so you can see everything vs just one person's POV.
Like mid fights, have the camera set up so people can see the teams arriving the mid and watch it develop instead of just sticking to one POV. Or have the camera pan out so you can see the enemy team pushing through a choke and watch how the teams move.
one player's POV is good for when a specific person is leading a charge or doing a bomb or doing something interesting.
I've always wondered, why are all games cast from the player's point of view? in CSGO, lots of the time the camera pans out to show a specific area where most of the action is taking place so you can see everything vs just one person's POV.
Like mid fights, have the camera set up so people can see the teams arriving the mid and watch it develop instead of just sticking to one POV. Or have the camera pan out so you can see the enemy team pushing through a choke and watch how the teams move.
one player's POV is good for when a specific person is leading a charge or doing a bomb or doing something interesting.
Like mid fights, have the camera set up so people can see the teams arriving the mid and watch it develop instead of just sticking to one POV. Or have the camera pan out so you can see the enemy team pushing through a choke and watch how the teams move.
one player's POV is good for when a specific person is leading a charge or doing a bomb or doing something interesting.
Maybe our camera-mans are lazy, 'cause I see that camera pan done a lot in highlander.
Maybe our camera-mans are lazy, 'cause I see that camera pan done a lot in highlander.
M4ngoLand why do some people -frag for no reason on this website seriously i've seen so many legitimate serious comments getting -fragged to hell for no reason.
Rule n1.
Dont ask why you are getting -frags because that will just give you more.
[quote=M4ngoL]and why do some people -frag for no reason on this website seriously i've seen so many legitimate serious comments getting -fragged to hell for no reason.[/quote]
Rule n1.
Dont ask why you are getting -frags because that will just give you more.
Rule n1.
Dont ask why you are getting -frags because that will just give you more.
I personally like bird's eye view on mids, but it's up to the community and camera people to decide what looks best for the broadcast
I personally like bird's eye view on mids, but it's up to the community and camera people to decide what looks best for the broadcast
eeeSpe0Make it a good spectator sport. Let's not kid ourselves here, comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like cs, smite or even hearthstone.Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.
I have to disagree with that. I started watched competitive way before I started playing it, back when I was a pub player with about 200 hours and found that I could understand it absolutely fine. I watched the i49 fragumentary and thought it was amazing and went on to watch i52 and i55 live as well as all the ETF2L prem games which got me into actually playing myself.
I think the way to increase viewership is just more big events. I'm sure i58 will get good numbers for tf2 but I think if we had even bigger international LANs with massive prize pools then a lot more people would watch and also be inspired to play competitive themselves. I think that the production quality is pretty good and the casters don't usually miss much.
[quote=eee][quote=Spe0]Make it a good spectator sport. Let's not kid ourselves here, comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like cs, smite or even hearthstone.[/quote]
Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.[/quote]
I have to disagree with that. I started watched competitive way before I started playing it, back when I was a pub player with about 200 hours and found that I could understand it absolutely fine. I watched the i49 fragumentary and thought it was amazing and went on to watch i52 and i55 live as well as all the ETF2L prem games which got me into actually playing myself.
I think the way to increase viewership is just more big events. I'm sure i58 will get good numbers for tf2 but I think if we had even bigger international LANs with massive prize pools then a lot more people would watch and also be inspired to play competitive themselves. I think that the production quality is pretty good and the casters don't usually miss much.
Good is a bad word. Easy is much better. TF2 is fucking hard to watch for me, and I can actually play TF2 at a level 99.99% of the tf2 population can't (pls no shittalk). Until the game can be broadcast in a way that's more clear and concise, it'll always be hard to watch. CS and MOBAs have the leg up here because they're primarily 2 dimensional and very focused/predictable. Combine this with how easy it is to program the predictive camera for CS compared to TF2, and you end up with much easier to spectate games. Simple round structures, relatively few objectives, very clear cut measurements for success. CS has these and as a result is very simple to spectate. TF2 isn't impossible to cast, but it requires a very good group of people to do so, and even then its more of a players' cast than a viewers' one. The people who're actually watching and understanding probably play TF2.[/quote]
I have to disagree with that. I started watched competitive way before I started playing it, back when I was a pub player with about 200 hours and found that I could understand it absolutely fine. I watched the i49 fragumentary and thought it was amazing and went on to watch i52 and i55 live as well as all the ETF2L prem games which got me into actually playing myself.
I think the way to increase viewership is just more big events. I'm sure i58 will get good numbers for tf2 but I think if we had even bigger international LANs with massive prize pools then a lot more people would watch and also be inspired to play competitive themselves. I think that the production quality is pretty good and the casters don't usually miss much.
yeah tbf i hate watching any sort of competition because it always feels boring (sports/tf2/vidya)
I just feel like when I start tuning out to tf2, I'm never as lost when I come back as I am with other games or sports
yeah tbf i hate watching any sort of competition because it always feels boring (sports/tf2/vidya)
I just feel like when I start tuning out to tf2, I'm never as lost when I come back as I am with other games or sports
I just feel like when I start tuning out to tf2, I'm never as lost when I come back as I am with other games or sports
panda106Maybe our camera-mans are lazy, 'cause I see that camera pan done a lot in highlander.
It's difficult to be a cameraman when there is no cheat sheet
[quote=panda106]Maybe our camera-mans are lazy, 'cause I see that camera pan done a lot in highlander.[/quote]
It's difficult to be a cameraman when there is no cheat sheet
It's difficult to be a cameraman when there is no cheat sheet
Spe0comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like...hearthstone.
I really hope you're trolling.
[quote=Spe0]comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like...hearthstone.[/quote]
I really hope you're trolling.
I really hope you're trolling.
Your basic premise is wrong in the OP. We have easily enough casual players to build a thriving comp scene, it's all about converting the existing player base. Good luck doing that though, it's been the goal for years.
Your basic premise is wrong in the OP. We have easily enough casual players to build a thriving comp scene, it's all about converting the existing player base. Good luck doing that though, it's been the goal for years.
Valve needs to put money into prize pots.
Valve NEEDS to make it so you can buy tickets to watch tournaments in-game with the twitch casters, like you can do in DOTA 2 and csgo.
And also another thing that pulls a lot of viewers for DOTA 2 is that when a player makes a big play like getting a triple kill, a random small number of the ticket buyers gets a special item.
Valve needs to put money into prize pots.
Valve NEEDS to make it so you can buy tickets to watch tournaments in-game with the twitch casters, like you can do in DOTA 2 and csgo.
And also another thing that pulls a lot of viewers for DOTA 2 is that when a player makes a big play like getting a triple kill, a random small number of the ticket buyers gets a special item.
Valve NEEDS to make it so you can buy tickets to watch tournaments in-game with the twitch casters, like you can do in DOTA 2 and csgo.
And also another thing that pulls a lot of viewers for DOTA 2 is that when a player makes a big play like getting a triple kill, a random small number of the ticket buyers gets a special item.
You're forgetting that Valve put big money and in-game shit into these titles after they had already built a booming comp scene. CS and Dota were already far bigger scenes than TF2 is competitively before GO and dota2 were even released. The issue is not that we're being denied our rightful share of a paycheck or w/e, we have much more fundamental problems.
You're forgetting that Valve put big money and in-game shit into these titles [i]after[/i] they had already built a booming comp scene. CS and Dota were already far bigger scenes than TF2 is competitively before GO and dota2 were even released. The issue is not that we're being denied our rightful share of a paycheck or w/e, we have much more fundamental problems.
They can add promo skins in csgo which you can only get from reaching a certain rank in tf2 mm(CS owners will get the pass for free) when it is out of beta ofc, that might bring a few players.
They can add promo skins in csgo which you can only get from reaching a certain rank in tf2 mm(CS owners will get the pass for free) when it is out of beta ofc, that might bring a few players.
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