Wasn't aware of that, thanks for the insight. However, I'd like to see NA players really try the EU ruleset instead of straight up hating on it without trying it first.

Honestly, I don't get why you guys are making such a big deal of the ruleset. When it comes down to it, Most of us just want to play TF2. If you play for lan, or prizes, or whatever else, Why are you playing this? If you have a passion for this game, then you'll play the game no matter what the ruleset is, and if you won't play just because the way things are scored are slightly different, Then get out of our community and go hold a league yourself, or better yet, go play paintball or something.

No league fees=money for your own server

Why don't we have each individual EU and NA divisions use their own ruleset?

because the website

NATF2L

This is what I said in my earlier post. Its not a far off idea to slowly walk towards a unified rule system.
So the progression would be kinda like this. 1st season NA rules. 2nd season winlimit 5 2maps a week 1 team. at the end of the 2nd season you think "this isnt so bad, I can deal with this", 3rd season timelimit 30, windifference 5, Yeh this isnt so different either, games are still around the same length and thank god we dont have to think about long drawn out games.

Same thing in reverse for EU rules.
Honestly I've played with both rulesets and I find the game still the same, its just minor differences which you dont really think about much.

Ruleset tbh should be the least of our worries.

If ETF2L can come out with an official statement that there will be an NA league I think a vast majority of players and teams will follow. At this point we're just contemplating ideas, but no league (either than ETF2L) is actually giving any solid feedback and it's a matter of waiting for one league to come out and say "Hey guys! Join us!" because as it is now, the community can't fully decide for itself.

imo CEVO is the most viable option. Its already established all it needs is teams signing up. ETF2L needs a whole new american admin lineup that are willing to put the work in.

It needs 3-4 admins at most.

Alright, I'm just going to say this, ETF2L, Change your name to ITF2L and announce a NA League. Get endorsement from IT or Mix^, or maybe even just a few big names like Ruwin and B4nny, get a few admins, and you got yourself a winning proposition.

Edit: Thought it was EUTF2L for some reason

For the whole rules thing- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqgSO8_cRio

I don't really have much experience with leagues since i just normally pug and ring for friends because I'm busy with school and stuff, but I like the idea of a div 6-1 + prem system rather than an Open < IM < Main < Invite system since you have such broad gaps in open.

then players who are retired from leagues but still play the game will have to return so that they can continue to brag about their most recent division placement. it's BRILLIANT.

Well, whatever the NA tf2 community decides to do, we need to do it together. Because of we don't, there is a potential risk of failure. We are strong as a community, not individuals. I wish there was some way we could take a vote, decide, and act together.

I think our first step should be contacting UGC/CEVO/ETF2L. Say, "Hey, are you guys willing to implement a paid league with an anti cheat client, change your rules based to accompany us, possibly a LAN, and can you withstand 400 more players joining your league for next season?" Then after each league has spoken we have a poll and choose.

This. I'm on it nubs.

Do people really want a client? IMO an anti-cheat team of 4-10ish unbiased moderately skilled players who can be asked to investigate a suspicious individual's POV and issue/not issue bans accordingly is a better idea.

In regards to a paid league, maybe a flat fee of like 20-40 dollars for every player of every div for servers, web hosting, and prize pot?

In terms of a LAN, I don't think they're entirely necessary, but if the league were to have one, is renting a venue, providing power and internet access to said venue, and hosting game servers really that hard? Players could use their own hardware if possible or computers could be rented, or even built by a community member and then sold/raffled off after.

For the love of God people read what has been said to you!

As nTraum and others said, ETF2L's backend is pretty much spaghetti put in a bag and smashed up to high heaven, so making a big change like replacing our ruleset would be much harder than you'd think. The website is tailored entirely around two maps a week with barely any thought (if any at all) put into being able to change that even remotely easily. Changing it would just confuse stuff a little bit too much.

Our ruleset really isn't that big of a change for NA players, and playing two maps really is not difficult to be honest. It keeps things fresh and you have an entire week and the pre-season to practice these maps with your team. Not only that but wildcards should seem like a godsend to you guys after some of the shit I've read recently about people being unable to play and things going way worse than they should after a league refuses to let you play just a few days after.

Everyone is in the same boat so it isn't like you have a disadvantage, and one season is really all it would take. Not even that if I'm honest, because you'd probably see after just a few weeks that it isn't as different as it seems. Personally I'd love to see you guys over at ETF2L and I hope you can at least look at how smoothly the league runs for now and ignore the fact that you (the top teams, of which there really aren't too many) don't get (for now) all the benefits you feel that ESEA gives you. Especially considering the fact that as you all know the negatives of ESEA vastly outweigh the positives.

If this does actually happen I feel like ETF2L could grow to be much much better for both regions and that could very easily lead to all of the things that you feel we're lacking being added or replaced with similar perks in the near future. tl;dr? Give it a chance, you might enjoy yourselves, and it might vastly improve the scene of our lovely little shitheap of a game.

I think unifying national rulesets would really benefit the game's progression

http://i.imgur.com/FQEqoiO.gif

how i see it, most of the na players say that they need to confirm with the top invite teams to join up with this idea. Because if they join etf2l/itf2l/ctf2l/ftf2l the rest of the na teams will follow. But if all the teams in NA will join in this adventure except the invite teams. They are left with no competition, with no newcommers to invite, with no new up and comming teams because all the other NA teams left esea, and joined etf2l. So they are almost obligated to follow the rest or quit the game.

So in short, (sorry for my language) fuck the invite illuminati, make your own illuminati. 1 combined league run by germans :D.

He moved to Dallas for LAN

b-but guys, e-sports

Forgive my ignorance if this is well known or has been covered already but what is the protocol for placing new teams in divisions in ETF2L?

I'm not even running this league anymore ;_;

Teams collect screenshots from scrims to prove they are able to play in their favored division.

this is quite a good question.
How it works in eu, most teams if they are new, and new to the game or to a 6v6 game are placed in div6. Then if you think you are better then a certain division, you can search for games on a higher div (5 - 2 because afaik div 1 to prem schedule there scrims ) then take a screenshot of the outcome, if you gather enough screenshots you can show them to an etf2l admin, and they will place you (most of the times) in the division you desire.

Now for NA teams joining etf2l, i think you realy need some good na admins onboard, that know the na scene and know what team needs to be placed in what div.

You can also take an other aproach to it. The first season of the na teams that join etf2l, you can do it esea style, have an open, im, main and invite division. The 2nd season the admins look at the results of the first season, and decide what team should be placed in what division(like low open teams are placed div 6-5, high open teams are placed in div 4, im teams are placed in 3 - 2, main teams are placed in div 1, and invite ofcourse will be premier division).

It would take a few season for the 1-6 divisions to even out.

ETF2L is a great league run by great people, but I fucking hate the lack of ambition, the lack of vision, the "keep things ticking over" attitude. Most of all I hate myself for not being the guy to step up and lead TF2 to the promised land.

We have consistently failed to track down any real sponsorship despite being the biggest TF2 league in the world. I'm sure Epsilon et al appreciated all the Steelseries and Tt eSports peripherals they have picked up over the years, but that's a disrespect to the quality of our scene and the game we play. If you want a serious competition, you need cash money, yo! That shit is universal throughout sports and gaming at the highest levels.

The prize pools for the last few seasons have largely been donations from one man (for which I am eternally grateful) and a significantly smaller proportion from ad revenue. Hell, the new "Retail Partnership" was largely Gentleman Jon's doing.

Prior to that we had ipz working on marketing for a period (getting us that Nike money!) but that blew up because ipz is ipz. One thing that I heard from that whole debacle was how sceptical sponsors were about the value of ETF2L, essentially boiling down to the point that they don't really have any assets that can be branded.

Regular content that they could be monetizing is non-existent, with casts and VODs being handled by third party organisations. It's all very well to have a picture on the sidebar, but if you could regularly reach out to a dedicated audience of viewers then you start to get some clout.

Then you have the whole concept of pay to play which ETF2L, and Europeans in general, seem even more reluctant to consider...

But I digress, it becomes a circular argument; we don't have money because we are an amateur league; we are an amateur league because we don't have money.

So I question why North America should jump on a league that has shown little intention of progressing anywhere? As soon as we settle for less we are signing the death warrant for TF2. Use this opportunity to do something big.

Where my mind is going -> TF.TV commands the largest audience, harness that for a new league venture. Better still combine the two. Please kill the rickety ETF2L website if possible and keep their brilliant staff. Death to Permzilla. Reinstate CanFo & SonnyBlack to rule alongside enigma. Deutschland über alles. Pay to play "Arx Divisions" for those who care. I'm full of terrible ideas and even worse implementations, but maybe I can blow the dust out of a few heads.

The thing that really gets me is that virtually all our attempts to legitimise competitive TF2 through reaching out for the support of external organisations (UKeSA, ESL, ESEA, etc.) have failed or left us feeling short changed and violated. Yet still I find all our attempts and running community driven competition so half-hearted; so underwhelming.

Conclusion: Kill myself.