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PC Build Thread
posted in Hardware
541
#541
0 Frags +

I'm planning on a new build this summer for a computer that can play both TF2 and other games well, and would greatly appreciate input and feedback for the build so far.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/MC3FLk

I'm planning on a new build this summer for a computer that can play both TF2 and other games well, and would greatly appreciate input and feedback for the build so far.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/MC3FLk
542
#542
3 Frags +

#540

SetsulSetsulThe usual disclaimer:
Now is the worst time to build/upgrade, (GPU prices are still settling and)new CPUs are one month away.

1. CPU is irrelevant for the case choice.
2. It does however affect the motherboard choice which does affect the case choice.
3. Obviously for a full ATX motherboard, which you probably don't need, you'd need a full ATX case. I think µATX is fine for pretty much anyone, but I don't know how many PCI(e) cards you plan on using.
4. If you hypothetically bought a massively overpriced CPU, which you don't need, less than a month before a faster and most likely cheaper CPU (i7-6700K) was released, after I've warned you multiple times I would, hypothetically, call you a retard.

#541
Once again:
Now is the worst time to build/upgrade, GPU prices are still settling and) new CPUs are one month away.

And a few other problems with your build:
No budget
I could recommend you a 2000$ build that will obviously be better.
You could get an i5-4590 for less than the i5-4460. If there's a microcenter near you, you could get it for 160$.
Z87 mobo for a non-overclockable cpu.
There's slightly cheaper RAM (not actually a problem)
V300 is shit. It was ok-ish, then Kingston switch the NAND, which halved the performance, without telling anyone. Don't buy it. The 850 Evo is cheaper and twice as fast as the good version of the V300. Do the math, 4$ more for -75% performance just doesn't check out.
The Seagate Barracuda is slightly faster and slightly cheaper than the WD Blue. Not a problem but 4$ are 4$.
The R9 380 isn't worth it yet. The 280X costs the same and is faster. The 290 is slightly more expensive and way faster.
I like µATX but I've said that before. Your choice.
CX600M for >60$? Holy shit no. Even the CX750M is only 55$. For the 55$ you could also get a very good PSU, e.g. the EVGA 550 GS instead of a low end PSU like the CX series. Or you could get the CX500M for 35$, which is the absolute max I'd be for a CXM. 30$ max for non-modular.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.95 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($64.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($48.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($56.37 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Tri-X OC Video Card ($263.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 500W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $746.05
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-07-05 17:04 EDT-0400

And another round:
New i5s two months away.

#540
[quote=Setsul][quote=Setsul]The usual disclaimer:
[b][size=16]Now is the worst time to build/upgrade, [/size][/b][size=5](GPU prices are still settling and)[/size][b][size=16]new CPUs are one month away.[/size]
[/b][/quote]
[/quote]
1. CPU is irrelevant for the case choice.
2. It does however affect the motherboard choice which does affect the case choice.
3. Obviously for a full ATX motherboard, which you probably don't need, you'd need a full ATX case. I think µATX is fine for pretty much anyone, but I don't know how many PCI(e) cards you plan on using.
4. If you hypothetically bought a massively overpriced CPU, which you don't need, less than a month before a faster and most likely cheaper CPU (i7-6700K) was released, after I've warned you multiple times I would, hypothetically, call you a retard.

#541
Once again:
[b][size=16]Now is the worst time to build/upgrade, [/size][/b][size=10]GPU prices are still settling and)[/size][b][size=16] new CPUs are one month away.[/size][/b]

And a few other problems with your build:
[b]No budget[/b]
I could recommend you a 2000$ build that will obviously be better.
You could get an i5-4590 for less than the i5-4460. If there's a microcenter near you, you could get it for 160$.
Z87 mobo for a non-overclockable cpu.
There's slightly cheaper RAM (not actually a problem)
V300 is shit. It was ok-ish, then Kingston switch the NAND, which halved the performance, without telling anyone. Don't buy it. The 850 Evo is cheaper and twice as fast as the good version of the V300. Do the math, 4$ more for -75% performance just doesn't check out.
The Seagate Barracuda is slightly faster and slightly cheaper than the WD Blue. Not a problem but 4$ are 4$.
The R9 380 isn't worth it yet. The 280X costs the same and is faster. The 290 is slightly more expensive and way faster.
I like µATX but I've said that before. Your choice.
CX600M for >60$? Holy shit no. Even the CX750M is only 55$. For the 55$ you could also get a very good PSU, e.g. the EVGA 550 GS instead of a low end PSU like the CX series. Or you could get the CX500M for 35$, which is the absolute max I'd be for a CXM. 30$ max for non-modular.

[url=http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mRmmZL]PCPartPicker part list[/url] / [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mRmmZL/by_merchant/]Price breakdown by merchant[/url]

[b]CPU:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i54590]Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor[/url] ($189.95 @ SuperBiiz)
[b]Motherboard:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asrock-motherboard-h97manniversary]ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard[/url] ($64.89 @ OutletPC)
[b]Memory:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gskill-memory-f312800cl9d8gbxl]G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory[/url] ($48.99 @ Newegg)
[b]Storage:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-internal-hard-drive-mz75e120bam]Samsung 850 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive[/url] ($56.37 @ Amazon)
[b]Storage:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st1000dm003]Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive[/url] ($46.89 @ OutletPC)
[b]Video Card:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/sapphire-video-card-1003623l]Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Tri-X OC Video Card[/url] ($263.98 @ Newegg)
[b]Case:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/cooler-master-case-nse200kkn1]Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case[/url] ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
[b]Power Supply:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-power-supply-cx500m]Corsair CX 500W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply[/url] ($34.99 @ Newegg)
[b]Total:[/b] $746.05
[i]Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available[/i]
[i]Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-07-05 17:04 EDT-0400[/i]

And another round:
[b]New i5s two months away.[/b]
543
#543
0 Frags +

Is it worth upgrading my current CPU to new generation i5 or i7?
I have a i5 2500 @ 3.3 ghz (Not OCed), a GTX760 and 16gb of RAM.
Most likely I'm going to play only TF2 or some other games but REALLY occasionally. And I doubt that I'll use OC in any way.
Or should I wait for new i5's since they are two monts away?

I'm blind, sorry.

[s]Is it worth upgrading my current CPU to new generation i5 or i7?
I have a i5 2500 @ 3.3 ghz (Not OCed), a GTX760 and 16gb of RAM.
Most likely I'm going to play only TF2 or some other games but REALLY occasionally. And I doubt that I'll use OC in any way.
Or should I wait for new i5's since they are two monts away?[/s]
[b]I'm blind, sorry. [/b]
544
#544
0 Frags +

I can only repeat myself.

SetsulI like quoting myself:SetsulSetsulSetsulThe usual disclaimer:
Now is the worst time to build/upgrade, (GPU prices are still settling and)new CPUs are one month away.
I can only repeat myself.
[quote=Setsul]I like quoting myself:
[quote=Setsul][quote=Setsul][quote=Setsul]The usual disclaimer:
[b][size=16]Now is the worst time to build/upgrade, [/size][/b][size=5](GPU prices are still settling and)[/size][b][size=16]new CPUs are one month away.[/size][/b][/quote] [/quote][/quote]
[/quote]
545
#545
0 Frags +

is this good for tf2 :/ (setsul pls) http://pcpartpicker.com/p/YDQZmG

is this good for tf2 :/ (setsul pls) http://pcpartpicker.com/p/YDQZmG
546
#546
3 Frags +

1. What's your budget?
2. No.
Since TF2 apparently only uses 2 threads nowadays dual core with highest single threaded performance (read: overclocked G3258) is the new meta. The FX-6300 wouldn't even be faster than an FX-4300.
I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with the 290, it's got an amazing price to performance ratio so for any other game I'd say go for it but in TF2 you'll be bottlenecked by the CPU even with just a 100$ GPU, so it's just 200$ for nothing.
3. YOU KNOW THE DRILL!

SetsulI can only repeat myself.SetsulI like quoting myself:SetsulSetsulSetsulThe usual disclaimer:
Now is the worst time to build/upgrade, (GPU prices are still settling and)new CPUs are one month away.

Patience.

1. What's your budget?
2. No.
Since TF2 apparently only uses 2 threads nowadays dual core with highest single threaded performance (read: overclocked G3258) is the new meta. The FX-6300 wouldn't even be faster than an FX-4300.
I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with the 290, it's got an amazing price to performance ratio so for any other game I'd say go for it but in TF2 you'll be bottlenecked by the CPU even with just a 100$ GPU, so it's just 200$ for nothing.
3. [b]YOU KNOW THE DRILL![/b]
[quote=Setsul]I can only repeat myself.
[quote=Setsul]I like quoting myself:
[quote=Setsul][quote=Setsul][quote=Setsul]The usual disclaimer:
[b][size=16]Now is the worst time to build/upgrade, [/size][/b][size=5](GPU prices are still settling and)[/size][b][size=16]new CPUs are one month away.[/size][/b][/quote] [/quote][/quote]
[/quote][/quote]

Patience.
547
#547
1 Frags +

is now a good time to buy a new PC?
because i'm thinking about getting a new PC, but i am absolutely clueless about what to get, and when to get it.

also, setsul, what's your opinion on the new CPUs?
i see that older releases like the i7 5820k are still recommended, despite the release of Skylake.

is now a good time to buy a new PC?
because i'm thinking about getting a new PC, but i am absolutely clueless about what to get, and [i]when[/i] to get it.

also, setsul, what's your opinion on the new CPUs?
i see that older releases like the i7 5820k are still recommended, despite the release of Skylake.
548
#548
6 Frags +

Chiiiiiiiiill out.
First of all the market needs some to react to this with price changes.
About the 6600K and 6700K: I really don't see the point yet.
Still more a lot more expensive than the 4790K, no cooler, only Z170 mobos available for now, both make the whole ordeal even more expensive and the IPC increase isn't enough to make up for the clockrate.

Overclocking statistics are sparse, so there's not much I can say yet.
1. Thermal paste again, so same problem as Haswell.
2. If you don't have the cooling power to go to 1.4-1.45V (and you'll need a beefy cooler, see 1) you're looking at 4.4-4.6GHz on the 6700K, lower on the 6600K.
3. Even with >1.4V only 4.7GHz are possible consistently, only a few samples are stable at 4.8GHz, almost one above that.
4. Delidding will be very interesting.

I'm not surprised at all and I didn't expect the K SKUs to be worth it. The 6700K might be interesting if you're overclocking just for the hell of it and delidding.

BCLK overclocking on the non-K versions, maybe on non-Z170 mobos will be interesting. Since Skylake is mostly thermally limited if all the CPUs are using the same thermal paste all those that aren't as close to the max TDP that it can handle should see some easy (and in case of non-Z OC even free) gains. With the clockrates almost unchanged from Haswell this could lead to a significantly better price to performance ratio, even with higher prices and more expensive new motherboards.

Not sure what the 5820K has to do with this. It's a more expensive 6 core on a more expensive platform. On anything using 6 cores it beat the 4790K and it still beats the 6700K, not surprising with 50% more cores. Using 4 cores or less the 4790K beat it and the 6700K beats it aswell.
FYI the 5960X still has 8 cores and is still cheaper than an equivalent Xeon. Quadcores don't compete with Hexa- and Octacores. Not within 2 generations. A platform with 16 PCIe lanes doesn't compete with a platform with 40 PCIe lanes. Intel doesn't compete with itself.

Also what kind of recommendations are you reading that you think the 5820K is an option for you?

Chiiiiiiiiill out.
First of all the market needs some to react to this with price changes.
About the 6600K and 6700K: I really don't see the point yet.
Still more a lot more expensive than the 4790K, no cooler, only Z170 mobos available for now, both make the whole ordeal even more expensive and the IPC increase isn't enough to make up for the clockrate.

Overclocking statistics are sparse, so there's not much I can say yet.
1. Thermal paste again, so same problem as Haswell.
2. If you don't have the cooling power to go to 1.4-1.45V (and you'll need a beefy cooler, see 1) you're looking at 4.4-4.6GHz on the 6700K, lower on the 6600K.
3. Even with >1.4V only 4.7GHz are possible consistently, only a few samples are stable at 4.8GHz, almost one above that.
4. Delidding will be very interesting.

I'm not surprised at all and I didn't expect the K SKUs to be worth it. The 6700K might be interesting if you're overclocking just for the hell of it and delidding.

BCLK overclocking on the non-K versions, maybe on non-Z170 mobos will be interesting. Since Skylake is mostly thermally limited if all the CPUs are using the same thermal paste all those that aren't as close to the max TDP that it can handle should see some easy (and in case of non-Z OC even free) gains. With the clockrates almost unchanged from Haswell this could lead to a significantly better price to performance ratio, even with higher prices and more expensive new motherboards.

Not sure what the 5820K has to do with this. It's a more expensive 6 core on a more expensive platform. On anything using 6 cores it beat the 4790K and it still beats the 6700K, not surprising with 50% more cores. Using 4 cores or less the 4790K beat it and the 6700K beats it aswell.
FYI the 5960X still has 8 cores and is still cheaper than an equivalent Xeon. Quadcores don't compete with Hexa- and Octacores. Not within 2 generations. A platform with 16 PCIe lanes doesn't compete with a platform with 40 PCIe lanes. Intel doesn't compete with itself.

Also what kind of recommendations are you reading that you think the 5820K is an option for you?
549
#549
1 Frags +

@setsul

I'm overclocking my 4770k, and right now I have it at 4.2 without barely having to raise the voltage, and the temperatures are very reasonable. I have read a lot of things about not many of them being able to get up past 4.5, and although mine can do it, raising the voltage makes me a bit nervous, because I haven't really seen any definitive number for what people think is safe in regards to CPU longevity.

Are there any settings you recommend specifically for different clock rates, and what do you think a reasonable maximum clock rate is without sacrificing the life of my CPU?

@setsul

I'm overclocking my 4770k, and right now I have it at 4.2 without barely having to raise the voltage, and the temperatures are very reasonable. I have read a lot of things about not many of them being able to get up past 4.5, and although mine can do it, raising the voltage makes me a bit nervous, because I haven't really seen any definitive number for what people think is safe in regards to CPU longevity.

Are there any settings you recommend specifically for different clock rates, and what do you think a reasonable maximum clock rate is without sacrificing the life of my CPU?
550
#550
4 Frags +

It's not exactly a build question, but I think this has become the "general pc hardware" thread anyway.

What are your settings (especially voltage) and temps? Barely and reasonable are subjective.
For Haswell I'd say Vcore 1.4V and Vring 1.3V, VRIN somewhere around 2.2-2.3V but I wouldn't go above Vcore + 0.6V anway.
It should be able to handle 1.45V, 1.35V and 2.4V but it might spike a bit so better safe than sorry. The killzone with normal cooling starts at 1.5V Vcore.

You'll run into thermal issues way before that though, unless you have delidded. At 1.30-1.35V where you'll probably max out (which cooler?) I wouldn't worry too much about longevity.

Clock rate doesn't kill CPUs, Voltage does. Don't forget that Haswell drops the voltage in idle or whenever it's not at full speed. The CPUs are supposed to last 10 years at stock voltage so running at slightly higher voltage a fraction of their life shouldn't have much of an impact. Plus you probably won't keep that CPU for much longer than 5 years anyway.

It's not exactly a build question, but I think this has become the "general pc hardware" thread anyway.

What are your settings (especially voltage) and temps? Barely and reasonable are subjective.
For Haswell I'd say Vcore 1.4V and Vring 1.3V, VRIN somewhere around 2.2-2.3V but I wouldn't go above Vcore + 0.6V anway.
It should be able to handle 1.45V, 1.35V and 2.4V but it might spike a bit so better safe than sorry. The killzone with normal cooling starts at 1.5V Vcore.

You'll run into thermal issues way before that though, unless you have delidded. At 1.30-1.35V where you'll probably max out (which cooler?) I wouldn't worry too much about longevity.

Clock rate doesn't kill CPUs, Voltage does. Don't forget that Haswell drops the voltage in idle or whenever it's not at full speed. The CPUs are supposed to last 10 years at stock voltage so running at slightly higher voltage a fraction of their life shouldn't have much of an impact. Plus you probably won't keep that CPU for much longer than 5 years anyway.
551
#551
1 Frags +

My voltage is at 1.25 I know, but I'm out of the house right now and ill look at my BIOS specifics when I get back

I have and h100i with fans on both sides of the radiator taking outside air in and temps are about 65-70C running prime95

My voltage is at 1.25 I know, but I'm out of the house right now and ill look at my BIOS specifics when I get back

I have and h100i with fans on both sides of the radiator taking outside air in and temps are about 65-70C running prime95
552
#552
0 Frags +

whats the best processor(and gpu for other games) for tf2 that compatible with a z77 pro 4 motherboard and under 250$
currently i use a i5 3350p, and a gtx 650ti

whats the best processor(and gpu for other games) for tf2 that compatible with a z77 pro 4 motherboard and under 250$
currently i use a i5 3350p, and a gtx 650ti
553
#553
1 Frags +

Not streaming:
i5-3570K if you're willing to overclock.
i5-2500K/i5-2550K could possibly be better if you're not delidding.

Not streaming:
i5-3570K if you're willing to overclock.
i5-2500K/i5-2550K could possibly be better if you're not delidding.
554
#554
0 Frags +

whats the difference between the 3570k and the 3570, because the K is 60$ more

whats the difference between the 3570k and the 3570, because the K is 60$ more
555
#555
0 Frags +
smvnwhats the difference between the 3570k and the 3570, because the K is 60$ more

the K denotes the unlocked multipliers - i.e. that you can overclock it

[quote=smvn]whats the difference between the 3570k and the 3570, because the K is 60$ more[/quote]

the K denotes the unlocked multipliers - i.e. that you can overclock it
556
#556
0 Frags +

How are Water cooled systems compared to air cooled fan systems? Is it a huge advantage is it worth the price? I'm not a big computer guy so I'd like to know

How are Water cooled systems compared to air cooled fan systems? Is it a huge advantage is it worth the price? I'm not a big computer guy so I'd like to know
557
#557
6 Frags +

Short answer: They're never worth it.

Long answer: If we're talking about those all in ones it's simply impossible for them to be better than a comparable air cooler.
Sound: The aio must be louder because the pump adds noise.
Price: The aio must be more expensive because the pump and tubes add cost.
Cooling: Thermodynamics 101. Heat flows from hotter to cooler places. So for the heat to go from the CPU block into the water then into the radiator and then into the air each must be hotter than the next one. By eliminating water as a step an air cooler saves a few degrees. Or in other words, the water actually adds temperature.

Now all of this is assuming that both the aio and the air cooler have similar fans and surface area. If you swap the fans on the aio you could obviously do the same on the air cooler so this changes nothing, but surface area can. This is the reason why watercooling can be quieter and cooler. If you're only using a dual radiator you don't get any advantage over a dual tower heatsink, you're just spending money, performance and noise on moving the heat to a different place. It only gets interesting when that enables you to get more surface area for cooling. For example in a mini-ITX case where you can't fit a big air cooler. Or if want to go beyond two fans. Triple tower heatsinks don't exist, they'd be too large, triple and even quad radiators exist though. There's even 200mm radiators, a size that's impossible for a heatsink directly on top of a CPU. And this is where the fun starts. With a triple or quad radiator you can get better cooling aswell as lower noise because even at slower fanspeeds the higher surface area still outweighs temperature difference the additonal step in the heat flow (water) added. But apart from some pre-packaged systems around 150-200$ we're talking about customs loops north of 300$. Such things are usually done more for the sake of the GPU(s) rather than the CPU. High end GPUs produce far more heat than CPUs (300W vs 100W) and with their smaller fans and maybe another GPU in SLI/Crossfire obscuring their intakes they benefit far more. For GPUs heat dissipation is the limiting factor, for CPUs getting the heat from the CPU into the CPU block is actually far harder. GPUs are very large chips (Titan X/980 Ti 601mm², Fury (X) 596mm²) and heat fairly evenly, whereas desktop CPUs are small (i5/i7-4xxx just 177mm²) with the actual cores being small hotspots and very hard to cool. On Ivy Bridge, Haswell and now Skylake Intel further amplified the issue by using thermal paste and a larger gap between the die and the IHS instead of soldering them together. Removing the IHS and putting a CPU waterblock directly on top of the die is actually a thing because of this. The more "conservative" method is just delidding, scraping off the epoxy glue to narrow the gap, cleaning and applying new thermal paste and then putting the lid back on.

Now some data to back all of this up:

http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/6/3/6313_29_noctua_nh_d15_cpu_cooler_review.png

Notice how none of those aios beat the NH-D15 by more than 2°C.
Since the NH-D15 is 90$ and all of the aios are 100$ or more you should already be asking yourself if that's really worth it.
But here comes the real kicker: That performance was bought by the cost of sounding like jet engines.

http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/6/3/6313_31_noctua_nh_d15_cpu_cooler_review.png

Keep in mind that+10dB sound about twice as loud so those aios are 5 to 10 times as loud as the NH-D15.
Wait, what's that, the Alphacool Nexxxos Cool Answer 240D5/UT is cooler than the NH-D15 and only 1dB louder. See, there are decent aios!
Lolnope.
That's a 300$ kit of custom watercooling parts. You just have to add another radiator and for barely 400$ you can beat the 90$ NH-D15 in both cooling and loudness.

If you can assemble a custom water cooling loop without flooding your pc you can delid your CPU without bricking it. And delidding sets you back just 10-15$ while reducing the core temperatures by 10-15°C.

I guess it's a bit long but I wanted to make my point.

Short answer: They're never worth it.


Long answer: If we're talking about those all in ones it's simply impossible for them to be better than a comparable air cooler.
Sound: The aio must be louder because the pump adds noise.
Price: The aio must be more expensive because the pump and tubes add cost.
Cooling: Thermodynamics 101. Heat flows from hotter to cooler places. So for the heat to go from the CPU block into the water then into the radiator and then into the air each must be hotter than the next one. By eliminating water as a step an air cooler saves a few degrees. Or in other words, the water actually adds temperature.

Now all of this is assuming that both the aio and the air cooler have similar fans and surface area. If you swap the fans on the aio you could obviously do the same on the air cooler so this changes nothing, but surface area can. This is the reason why watercooling can be quieter and cooler. If you're only using a dual radiator you don't get any advantage over a dual tower heatsink, you're just spending money, performance and noise on moving the heat to a different place. It only gets interesting when that enables you to get more surface area for cooling. For example in a mini-ITX case where you can't fit a big air cooler. Or if want to go beyond two fans. Triple tower heatsinks don't exist, they'd be too large, triple and even quad radiators exist though. There's even 200mm radiators, a size that's impossible for a heatsink directly on top of a CPU. And this is where the fun starts. With a triple or quad radiator you can get better cooling aswell as lower noise because even at slower fanspeeds the higher surface area still outweighs temperature difference the additonal step in the heat flow (water) added. But apart from some pre-packaged systems around 150-200$ we're talking about customs loops north of 300$. Such things are usually done more for the sake of the GPU(s) rather than the CPU. High end GPUs produce far more heat than CPUs (300W vs 100W) and with their smaller fans and maybe another GPU in SLI/Crossfire obscuring their intakes they benefit far more. For GPUs heat dissipation is the limiting factor, for CPUs getting the heat from the CPU into the CPU block is actually far harder. GPUs are very large chips (Titan X/980 Ti 601mm², Fury (X) 596mm²) and heat fairly evenly, whereas desktop CPUs are small (i5/i7-4xxx just 177mm²) with the actual cores being small hotspots and very hard to cool. On Ivy Bridge, Haswell and now Skylake Intel further amplified the issue by using thermal paste and a larger gap between the die and the IHS instead of soldering them together. Removing the IHS and putting a CPU waterblock directly on top of the die is actually a thing because of this. The more "conservative" method is just delidding, scraping off the epoxy glue to narrow the gap, cleaning and applying new thermal paste and then putting the lid back on.

Now some data to back all of this up:
[img]http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/6/3/6313_29_noctua_nh_d15_cpu_cooler_review.png[/img]

Notice how none of those aios beat the NH-D15 by more than 2°C.
Since the NH-D15 is 90$ and all of the aios are 100$ or more you should already be asking yourself if that's really worth it.
But here comes the real kicker: That performance was bought by the cost of sounding like jet engines.
[img]http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/6/3/6313_31_noctua_nh_d15_cpu_cooler_review.png[/img]

Keep in mind that+10dB sound about twice as loud so those aios are 5 to 10 times as loud as the NH-D15.
Wait, what's that, the Alphacool Nexxxos Cool Answer 240D5/UT is cooler than the NH-D15 and only 1dB louder. See, there are decent aios!
Lolnope.
That's a 300$ kit of custom watercooling parts. You just have to add another radiator and for barely 400$ you can beat the 90$ NH-D15 in both cooling and loudness.

If you can assemble a custom water cooling loop without flooding your pc you can delid your CPU without bricking it. And delidding sets you back just 10-15$ while reducing the core temperatures by 10-15°C.

I guess it's a bit long but I wanted to make my point.
558
#558
0 Frags +

So it's never worth for a water cooled so if I were to want an air cooled with your 200mm fan setup or whatever what would the cost be in comparison? I assume it's like a good amount cheaper from your novel above

So it's never worth for a water cooled so if I were to want an air cooled with your 200mm fan setup or whatever what would the cost be in comparison? I assume it's like a good amount cheaper from your novel above
559
#559
3 Frags +

I think you missunderstood.

SetsulThere's even 200mm radiators, a size that's impossible for a heatsink directly on top of a CPU.

If you want more than 2*140mm heatsinks you can't fit them on top of the CPU anymore. More than two in a row would block the RAM slots, more than 140mm would block PCIe slots and wouldn't fit into 99% of all cases height wise.

So in that case you'd have to put it somewhere else and to transport the heat you need water.
But since there are no 200mm aios you'd have to buy custom watercooling parts, which means you're looking at 300$+.
1*200mm isn't even better 2*140mm so it's definitely not worth it.

If you absolutely "need" a quieter and cooler setup than what the best air coolers can provide you don't have any options except watercooling. But be prepared to pay through your nose.

tl;dr
2*140mm air >= 1*200mm water and far cheaper
>=2*200mm water > 2*140mm air, but 300-500$ >>> 90$

I think you missunderstood.
[quote=Setsul]There's even 200mm radiators, a size that's impossible for a heatsink directly on top of a CPU.[/quote]

If you want more than 2*140mm heatsinks you can't fit them on top of the CPU anymore. More than two in a row would block the RAM slots, more than 140mm would block PCIe slots and wouldn't fit into 99% of all cases height wise.

So in that case you'd have to put it somewhere else and to transport the heat you need water.
But since there are no 200mm aios you'd have to buy custom watercooling parts, which means you're looking at 300$+.
1*200mm isn't even better 2*140mm so it's definitely not worth it.

If you absolutely "need" a quieter and cooler setup than what the best air coolers can provide you don't have any options except watercooling. But be prepared to pay through your nose.

tl;dr
2*140mm air >= 1*200mm water and far cheaper
>=2*200mm water > 2*140mm air, but 300-500$ >>> 90$
560
#560
0 Frags +

Ok, so I'm in need of serious help with this computer build. I've never really built a computer, and I've gone off of lists made by other people and made this one.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($224.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper TX3 54.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($14.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97 PRO4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($76.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($38.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Kingston SSDNow V300 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($47.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 380 2GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($203.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $781.89
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-09 15:23 EDT-0400

I'm going to be using this computer mainly for TF2, CS:GO, and music production. I want to be able to run TF2 and CS at 144hz on low-mid settings. Are there any modifications that I can do to help lessen the cost of this build?

Ok, so I'm in need of serious help with this computer build. I've never really built a computer, and I've gone off of lists made by other people and made this one.

[url=http://pcpartpicker.com/p/cFk6zy]PCPartPicker part list[/url] / [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/p/cFk6zy/by_merchant/]Price breakdown by merchant[/url]

[b]CPU:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i54690k]Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor[/url] ($224.99 @ SuperBiiz)
[b]CPU Cooler:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rr910htx3g1]Cooler Master Hyper TX3 54.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler[/url] ($14.99 @ SuperBiiz)
[b]Motherboard:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asrock-motherboard-h97pro4]ASRock H97 PRO4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard[/url] ($76.99 @ SuperBiiz)
[b]Memory:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-memory-bls8g3d1609ds1s00]Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory[/url] ($38.99 @ Newegg)
[b]Storage:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/kingston-internal-hard-drive-sv300s37a120g]Kingston SSDNow V300 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive[/url] ($47.99 @ SuperBiiz)
[b]Storage:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd10ezex]Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive[/url] ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
[b]Video Card:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/xfx-video-card-r9380p2255]XFX Radeon R9 380 2GB Double Dissipation Video Card[/url] ($203.98 @ Newegg)
[b]Case:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-case-200r]Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case[/url] ($49.99 @ Micro Center)
[b]Power Supply:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seasonic-power-supply-m12ii520bronze]SeaSonic 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply[/url] ($59.99 @ SuperBiiz)
[b]Optical Drive:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-optical-drive-drw24b1stblkbas]Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer[/url] ($13.99 @ SuperBiiz)
[b]Total:[/b] $781.89
[i]Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available[/i]
[i]Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-09 15:23 EDT-0400[/i]

I'm going to be using this computer mainly for TF2, CS:GO, and music production. I want to be able to run TF2 and CS at 144hz on low-mid settings. Are there any modifications that I can do to help lessen the cost of this build?
561
#561
0 Frags +

either get the non-k i5 or get a z97 mobo.
cpus with "k" are unlocked(overclockable), but that mobo isn't able to overclock

either get the non-k i5 or get a z97 mobo.
cpus with "k" are unlocked(overclockable), but that mobo isn't able to overclock
562
#562
5 Frags +

Budget?

Intel doesn't support overclocking on anything but Z-series chipsets. Motherboard manufacturers have found ways around it, but if you can avoid it there's no need to "risk" lower overclocks by that.

In theory if there is non-Z overclocking for Skylake aswell the non-K CPUs might be fairly good value since they are supposed to be overclockable via BCLK. You'd also get DDR4 and a newer chipset.
If you don't care about those things you could buy now. You could wait for price drops but there is a nice deal for the Z87-A right now and I don't think it's going to get much better than that.
The H97M-Anniversary is the cheapest mobo I'd consider and it's 51.98$. 7.02$ won't break your budget and you get Z87 -> full overclocking support.
RAM: It shouldn't make much of a difference but dual channel RAM is recommended.
SSD: Don't buy the V300. Kingston pulled some bullshit there, replaced the NAND mid-series, which halved the performance. And they didn't bother to tell anyone.
1. That's a dick move.
2. Thanks to that the 850 Evo is now more than twice as fast. Definitely worth +15$.
HDD: The Seagate Barracuda is a bit cheaper and slightly faster than the WD Blue.
GPU: For low-mid settings you could go far lower, even a 260X should be enough, but just to have a bit more power in other games I'd go for the 270/270X. But as it turns out there are a few 285s for the same price. And guess what, the 380 is just a rebranded 285. God this feels awesome.
Case: I find the lack of dust filters disturbing. There's also no HDD vibration dampening, making the 200R a bit loud. For 50$ it's just meh.
Let's take it up a notch, have a look at the Thermaltake V41:

Against the entire market, this is a very feature packed mid-tower, and for $89.99, it offers a lot of bang for your buck. The mid-tower market is truly flooded with offers, and with companies having to take everything to the next level to appeal to the customers, we get to sit back and reap all of the benefits. The Core V41 is surely in our top five of all mid-towers we have ever seen, and that is really saying something.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6853/thermaltake-core-v41-mid-tower-chassis-review/index7.html
A little price drop and 20$ MIR later and we're at 59.99$. Nice.

PSU: I thought about wether I should recommend a budget PSU (EVGA 500B at 35$) or a higher quality one, but then I realised you can have both. Antec Neo Eco 620W. Same platform, though not modular, but it's only 40$ right now. If you want modularity definitely go for the M12II 520W, at that price nothing comes close in terms of performance and most PSUs are just semi-modular, too.

I threw in a better CPU cooler aswell.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($224.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($25.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus Z87-A (NFC Express Edition) ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($59.00 @ Newegg)
Memory: Pareema 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($42.49 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($63.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($43.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon R9 285 2GB TurboDuo Video Card ($153.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Thermaltake Core V41 ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Antec Neo Eco 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $728.39
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-09 17:03 EDT-0400

That was the most satisfying build in a long time. It was like standing in a bakery, contemplating the dilemma of not being able to have the cake and eat it too and then seeing a sign "2 cakes for the price of 1".

For this build I'm even dropping my "new CPUs next month" disclaimer.
I could definitely go lower if you have, but it'd be a shame.
You could just aswell go up again, Seasonic M12II 520W again, possibly a 250GB instead 120GB.

Budget?

Intel doesn't support overclocking on anything but Z-series chipsets. Motherboard manufacturers have found ways around it, but if you can avoid it there's no need to "risk" lower overclocks by that.

In theory if there is non-Z overclocking for Skylake aswell the non-K CPUs might be fairly good value since they are supposed to be overclockable via BCLK. You'd also get DDR4 and a newer chipset.
If you don't care about those things you could buy now. You could wait for price drops but there is a nice deal for the Z87-A right now and I don't think it's going to get much better than that.
The H97M-Anniversary is the cheapest mobo I'd consider and it's 51.98$. 7.02$ won't break your budget and you get Z87 -> full overclocking support.
RAM: It shouldn't make much of a difference but dual channel RAM is recommended.
SSD: Don't buy the V300. Kingston pulled some bullshit there, replaced the NAND mid-series, which halved the performance. And they didn't bother to tell anyone.
1. That's a dick move.
2. Thanks to that the 850 Evo is now [b]more[/b] than twice as fast. Definitely worth +15$.
HDD: The Seagate Barracuda is a bit cheaper and slightly faster than the WD Blue.
GPU: For low-mid settings you could go far lower, even a 260X should be enough, but just to have a bit more power in other games I'd go for the 270/270X. But as it turns out there are a few 285s for the same price. And guess what, the 380 is just a rebranded 285. God this feels awesome.
Case: I find the lack of dust filters disturbing. There's also no HDD vibration dampening, making the 200R a bit loud. For 50$ it's just meh.
Let's take it up a notch, have a look at the Thermaltake V41:
[quote]Against the entire market, this is a very feature packed mid-tower, and for $89.99, it offers a lot of bang for your buck. The mid-tower market is truly flooded with offers, and with companies having to take everything to the next level to appeal to the customers, we get to sit back and reap all of the benefits. The Core V41 is surely in our top five of all mid-towers we have ever seen, and that is really saying something.[/quote]
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6853/thermaltake-core-v41-mid-tower-chassis-review/index7.html
A little price drop and 20$ MIR later and we're at 59.99$. Nice.

PSU: I thought about wether I should recommend a budget PSU (EVGA 500B at 35$) or a higher quality one, but then I realised you can have both. Antec Neo Eco 620W. Same platform, though not modular, but it's only 40$ right now. If you want modularity definitely go for the M12II 520W, at that price nothing comes close in terms of performance and most PSUs are just semi-modular, too.

I threw in a better CPU cooler aswell.

[url=http://pcpartpicker.com/p/W4bLTW]PCPartPicker part list[/url] / [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/p/W4bLTW/by_merchant/]Price breakdown by merchant[/url]

[b]CPU:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i54690k]Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor[/url] ($224.99 @ SuperBiiz)
[b]CPU Cooler:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rr212e20pkr2]Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler[/url] ($25.98 @ OutletPC)
[b]Motherboard:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-z87anfcexpressedition]Asus Z87-A (NFC Express Edition) ATX LGA1150 Motherboard[/url] ($59.00 @ Newegg)
[b]Memory:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/pareema-memory-md316c81609l2]Pareema 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory[/url] ($42.49 @ Newegg)
[b]Storage:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-internal-hard-drive-mz75e120bam]Samsung 850 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive[/url] ($63.99 @ Amazon)
[b]Storage:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st1000dm003]Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive[/url] ($43.99 @ SuperBiiz)
[b]Video Card:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/powercolor-video-card-axr92852gbd5tdhe]PowerColor Radeon R9 285 2GB TurboDuo Video Card[/url] ($153.98 @ Newegg)
[b]Case:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/thermaltake-case-ca1c700m1wn00]Thermaltake Core V41 ATX Mid Tower Case[/url] ($59.99 @ Newegg)
[b]Power Supply:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/antec-power-supply-neoeco620c]Antec Neo Eco 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply[/url] ($39.99 @ Newegg)
[b]Optical Drive:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-optical-drive-drw24b1stblkbas]Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer[/url] ($13.99 @ SuperBiiz)
[b]Total:[/b] $728.39
[i]Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available[/i]
[i]Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-09 17:03 EDT-0400[/i]

That was the most satisfying build in a long time. It was like standing in a bakery, contemplating the dilemma of not being able to have the cake and eat it too and then seeing a sign "2 cakes for the price of 1".

For this build I'm even dropping my "new CPUs next month" disclaimer.
I could definitely go lower if you have, but it'd be a shame.
You could just aswell go up again, Seasonic M12II 520W again, possibly a 250GB instead 120GB.
563
#563
0 Frags +

Thank you so much for your help :)

Thank you so much for your help :)
564
#564
0 Frags +

I am building a new computer for video games like UT4,reflex, guild wars 2, maybe cs:go, this is what I got:
My budget is max $1300 including os

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($329.98 @ NCIX)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($37.50 @ Vuugo)
Motherboard: Asus Z170-P D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($158.98 @ DirectCanada)
Memory: Kingston 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($47.99 @ Canada Computers)
Storage: Crucial BX100 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($81.07 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 960 2GB SuperSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card ($258.99 @ DirectCanada)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case ($99.99 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ Memory Express)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer ($18.75 @ Vuugo)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 OEM (64-bit) ($114.99 @ Memory Express)
Total: $1270.21
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-09 19:33 EDT-0400

I am building a new computer for video games like UT4,reflex, guild wars 2, maybe cs:go, this is what I got:
My budget is max $1300 including os

[url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/yfgB3C]PCPartPicker part list[/url] / [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/yfgB3C/by_merchant/]Price breakdown by merchant[/url]

[b]CPU:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80662i56600k]Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor[/url] ($329.98 @ NCIX)
[b]CPU Cooler:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rr212e20pkr2]Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler[/url] ($37.50 @ Vuugo)
[b]Motherboard:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-z170pd3]Asus Z170-P D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard[/url] ($158.98 @ DirectCanada)
[b]Memory:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/kingston-memory-kvr1333d3n98g]Kingston 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory[/url] ($47.99 @ Canada Computers)
[b]Storage:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-internal-hard-drive-ct120bx100ssd1]Crucial BX100 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive[/url] ($81.07 @ Amazon Canada)
[b]Storage:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd10ezex]Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive[/url] ($56.98 @ Newegg Canada)
[b]Video Card:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-video-card-02gp42966kr]EVGA GeForce GTX 960 2GB SuperSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card[/url] ($258.99 @ DirectCanada)
[b]Case:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/cooler-master-case-sgc1000kwn1]Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case[/url] ($99.99 @ NCIX)
[b]Power Supply:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-power-supply-cx430m]Corsair CX 430W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply[/url] ($64.99 @ Memory Express)
[b]Optical Drive:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/lite-on-optical-drive-ihas12414]Lite-On iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer[/url] ($18.75 @ Vuugo)
[b]Operating System:[/b] [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/microsoft-os-gfc02050]Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 OEM (64-bit)[/url] ($114.99 @ Memory Express)
[b]Total:[/b] $1270.21
[i]Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available[/i]
[i]Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-09 19:33 EDT-0400[/i]
565
#565
0 Frags +

@Setsul
I'm going to be building a computer with this partslist, but I have a question. What exactly does this mean?: Some Intel Z87 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Haswell Refresh CPUs.

Do I have to worry about this or should I be fine?

@Setsul
I'm going to be building a computer with this partslist, but I have a question. What exactly does this mean?: Some Intel Z87 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Haswell Refresh CPUs.

Do I have to worry about this or should I be fine?
566
#566
0 Frags +
Khoum@Setsul
I'm going to be building a computer with this partslist, but I have a question. What exactly does this mean?: Some Intel Z87 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Haswell Refresh CPUs.

Do I have to worry about this or should I be fine?

Z87 chipsets predate the i5-4690k he linked, which means the motherboard is not guaranteed to work with the CPU. However, I have not heard of a case where this caused a problem, and i can't think of a good reason why it would.

[quote=Khoum]@Setsul
I'm going to be building a computer with this partslist, but I have a question. What exactly does this mean?: Some Intel Z87 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Haswell Refresh CPUs.

Do I have to worry about this or should I be fine?[/quote]
Z87 chipsets predate the i5-4690k he linked, which means the motherboard is not guaranteed to work with the CPU. However, I have not heard of a case where this caused a problem, and i can't think of a good reason why it would.
567
#567
4 Frags +

#564
I'm not a fan of the case but I don't have the time to look into alternatives atm.

For Cooler, RAM, SSD, HDD see #562, same reasons.

PSU: The CX430 is a budget PSU, it's not great but fine if you're on a budget. In this case it's the wrong choice for 2 reasons:
1. When you made that partlist it wasn't on sale. At that price there are better PSUs.
2. Even though it's on sale now, I still wouldn't get it. My rule is 5-10% of the budget for the PSU. If you're below that you're skimping out, if you're above that the PSU is either overpriced, oversized or overkill (possibly all three). In your case the range is 65-130$.
The Antec Neo Eco 620W at 70$ fits perfectly as "low end" option. That's one of the implications of the 5% rule. Low end for a 1300$ build means "low end Seasonic or comparable".
If you want modularity you'll have to shell out another 10$ for the Antec HCG-400M. It's the same platform.
If you might want to go SLI (not possible with the Z170-P D3, although I'd recommend a more powerful single GPU anyway) or simply want a fully modular PSU there's the Seasonic M12II 520W for another 5$ more. Again the exact same platform as the Antec HCG-520M but 1$ more gets you a fully instead of semi-modular PSU.

http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/RgCwQ7

Now about Haswell Refresh vs Skylake. In terms of motherboards it's still looking pretty dire. The Z170-P D3 specifically doesn't really offer anything over Z87/Z97. It's still using DDR3 and doesn't even have SLI support like the >50$ cheaper Z87-A, so unless you have some very specific needs that Z170 can fulfill, it's just not a very good deal.
Don't get me wrong, Z170 is clearly better than even Z97, but do you even need what Z97 has to offer over Z87? Do you need an M.2 slot? Trading SLI support and 50$ for USB 3.1 just doesn't seem right.

Specifically 6600K vs 4690K. Skylake isn't that much faster so it comes down to overclocking. There's not enough data yet to reliably say where the 6600K will end up and how much spread there is in the silicon lottery.
Skylake has the advantage of higher efficiency/lower power consumption but beyond that we don't know anything for sure yet.
Does it use the Haswell, Haswell-Refresh/Devil's Canyon or an entirely new thermal paste? We don't know.
How well does it handle Voltage? We don't know.
What clockrates can you expect with a midrange cooler like the 212 Evo or T40-TB? We don't know. Most tests use a beefy high end air coolers or aios in jet engine mode, some of the more overclocking oriented reviews even use custom water loops, specifically to remove all thermal limitations. Of course you can get a PH-TC14PE or NH-D14 but that's another 50$.

http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/njqdQ7

At some point you've got to ask yourself if 95% of the CPU power for 100-150$ less isn't the better idea. Especially if you can put that money towards a 970 or 390.

http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/8cPfBm

I could easily get it below 1300$, but I couldn't resist the number.

What I'd do is wait. Wait and see if the motherboard situation changes. Wait for the non-K Skylake CPUs and the other chipsets. If they overclock decently you might be able to get the new Z170 features and the same performance as the 4690K oc'd at the same price. If the mobo manufacturers figure out a way for non-Z overclocking again you might even get it at a lower price.

I know this is pretty much the opposite of what I recommended in #562 but that's the Canadian prices.
Getting a Z87 mobo at a lower price than all except one H97 mobo (with the difference being 7$) is simply a game changer.

#565
Well it means that if you get a Z87-A that still runs a 1+ year old BIOS/UEFI the i5-4590K might not work. But I wouldn't recommend it if there was a chance that you couldn't use it. The Z87-A among others mobos has this neat little feature: You can update the BIOS without a CPU or RAM installed. You just need a USB stick.
Here's a guide.
http://rog.asus.com/339292014/labels/guides/guide-update-your-maximus-vi-or-asus-z87-motherboard-with-usb-bios-flashback-for-devils-canyon-4790k-4690k-cpus/

#564
I'm not a fan of the case but I don't have the time to look into alternatives atm.

For Cooler, RAM, SSD, HDD see #562, same reasons.

PSU: The CX430 is a budget PSU, it's not great but fine if you're on a budget. In this case it's the wrong choice for 2 reasons:
1. When you made that partlist it wasn't on sale. At that price there are better PSUs.
2. Even though it's on sale now, I still wouldn't get it. My rule is 5-10% of the budget for the PSU. If you're below that you're skimping out, if you're above that the PSU is either overpriced, oversized or overkill (possibly all three). In your case the range is 65-130$.
The [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/antec-power-supply-neoeco620c]Antec Neo Eco 620W[/url] at 70$ fits perfectly as "low end" option. That's one of the implications of the 5% rule. Low end for a 1300$ build means "low end Seasonic or comparable".
If you want modularity you'll have to shell out another 10$ for the [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/antec-power-supply-hcg400m]Antec HCG-400M[/url]. It's the same platform.
If you might want to go SLI (not possible with the Z170-P D3, although I'd recommend a more powerful single GPU anyway) or simply want a fully modular PSU there's the [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/seasonic-power-supply-m12ii520bronze]Seasonic M12II 520W[/url] for another 5$ more. Again the exact same platform as the [url=http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/antec-power-supply-hcg520m]Antec HCG-520M[/url] but 1$ more gets you a fully instead of semi-modular PSU.

http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/RgCwQ7

Now about Haswell Refresh vs Skylake. In terms of motherboards it's still looking pretty dire. The Z170-P D3 specifically doesn't really offer anything over Z87/Z97. It's still using DDR3 and doesn't even have SLI support like the >50$ cheaper Z87-A, so unless you have some very specific needs that Z170 can fulfill, it's just not a very good deal.
Don't get me wrong, Z170 is clearly better than even Z97, but do you even need what Z97 has to offer over Z87? Do you need an M.2 slot? Trading SLI support and 50$ for USB 3.1 just doesn't seem right.

Specifically 6600K vs 4690K. Skylake isn't that much faster so it comes down to overclocking. There's not enough data yet to reliably say where the 6600K will end up and how much spread there is in the silicon lottery.
Skylake has the advantage of higher efficiency/lower power consumption but beyond that we don't know anything for sure yet.
Does it use the Haswell, Haswell-Refresh/Devil's Canyon or an entirely new thermal paste? We don't know.
How well does it handle Voltage? We don't know.
What clockrates can you expect with a midrange cooler like the 212 Evo or T40-TB? We don't know. Most tests use a beefy high end air coolers or aios in jet engine mode, some of the more overclocking oriented reviews even use custom water loops, specifically to remove all thermal limitations. Of course you can get a PH-TC14PE or NH-D14 but that's another 50$.

http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/njqdQ7

At some point you've got to ask yourself if 95% of the CPU power for 100-150$ less isn't the better idea. Especially if you can put that money towards a 970 or 390.

http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/8cPfBm

I could easily get it below 1300$, but I couldn't resist the number.

What I'd do is wait. Wait and see if the motherboard situation changes. Wait for the non-K Skylake CPUs and the other chipsets. If they overclock decently you might be able to get the new Z170 features and the same performance as the 4690K oc'd at the same price. If the mobo manufacturers figure out a way for non-Z overclocking again you might even get it at a lower price.

I know this is pretty much the opposite of what I recommended in #562 but that's the Canadian prices.
Getting a Z87 mobo at a lower price than all except one H97 mobo (with the difference being 7$) is simply a game changer.


#565
Well it means that if you get a Z87-A that still runs a 1+ year old BIOS/UEFI the i5-4590K might not work. But I wouldn't recommend it if there was a chance that you couldn't use it. The Z87-A among others mobos has this neat little feature: You can update the BIOS without a CPU or RAM installed. You just need a USB stick.
Here's a guide.
http://rog.asus.com/339292014/labels/guides/guide-update-your-maximus-vi-or-asus-z87-motherboard-with-usb-bios-flashback-for-devils-canyon-4790k-4690k-cpus/
568
#568
1 Frags +

My current setup:

GPU: Geforce 550Ti (1GB DDR5)
CPU: Intel i5-4570 @ 3.2Ghz

Now I think I should upgrade my graphics card instead of my CPU (I want to start streaming at a better quality ect.)

The Geforce 740 listed here is really cheap and seemingly a huge upgrade to my 550Ti. For streaming TF2 (Which I have come to assume is more CPU based than GPU) would it make a HUGE impact or just a slight? Also, why is this one so cheap when say the Geforce 980 is also a 4GB DDR5 but its priced at $500? Is there a 2GB DDR5 out there then that is still better than the 740 and still a reasonable price?

Which if the answer is just slight, I would need to go with upgrading the CPU instead.

Now I have seen everyone swear by i7's ect. ect. but their pretty damn expensive.. so I found this AMD FX-8350 which is an 8 core @ 4.0GHZ. Is this superior to my current CPU and or will it grant a greater improvement than buying the GPU?

Also to clarify, if its not better than the i7, why? I'm not the most competent when it comes to the hardware side of PC's so yeah.

Thanks for any help!

My current setup:

GPU: Geforce 550Ti (1GB DDR5)
CPU: Intel i5-4570 @ 3.2Ghz

Now I think I should upgrade my graphics card instead of my CPU (I want to start streaming at a better quality ect.)

The Geforce 740 listed here is really cheap and seemingly a huge upgrade to my 550Ti. For streaming TF2 (Which I have come to assume is more CPU based than GPU) would it make a HUGE impact or just a slight? Also, why is this one so cheap when say the Geforce 980 is also a 4GB DDR5 but its priced at $500? Is there a 2GB DDR5 out there then that is still better than the 740 and still a reasonable price?

Which if the answer is just slight, I would need to go with upgrading the CPU instead.

Now I have seen everyone swear by i7's ect. ect. but their pretty damn expensive.. so I found this AMD FX-8350 which is an 8 core @ 4.0GHZ. Is this superior to my current CPU and or will it grant a greater improvement than buying the GPU?

Also to clarify, if its not better than the i7, why? I'm not the most competent when it comes to the hardware side of PC's so yeah.

Thanks for any help!
569
#569
2 Frags +

Answered in original thread.
http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/470219/yet-another-quot-should-i-buy-this-or-this-quot

Answered in original thread.
http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/470219/yet-another-quot-should-i-buy-this-or-this-quot
570
#570
0 Frags +

Thanks Setsul

I already got the GTX960 but I guess I'll wait. The case was just a placeholder, I will probably get the 400R or Arc Midi R2 if it goes on sale. I assumed I would come to this dilemma, I'll wait for the next sale or something.

Thanks Setsul

I already got the GTX960 but I guess I'll wait. The case was just a placeholder, I will probably get the 400R or Arc Midi R2 if it goes on sale. I assumed I would come to this dilemma, I'll wait for the next sale or something.
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