I think having an open two-level intel room like mach4's would be great. That map has a very good structure, it's a shame that the architecture mostly ruined it. Having quake-like suspended overhanging platforms on the outside of the base would be nice, and having some kind of small (smaller than a normal midpoint area) high ground with visible side- or through-paths in the middle should be good to prevent awkward spawn spam (2fort) and toostrong middle holds (turbine)

(went over the post length limit, jesus christ)
@vanilla:
I really, really don't like vitalism's design. It would be like a constant double-last-hold in 6s, probably with some alternate tactics. I can get the flag and cap it in ten seconds, which is way too fast for tf2; if you break through a turtle once you could probably chain a few caps with mild coordination. Honestly, mach4 has a pretty good design in comparison. I consider neutral CTF another gamemode, too, so I won't comment on that.

Loronix:
that thing can't even intel grab anymore

@TLR:
I think I agree with that, in a different sense, but I have to go on a tangent to explain why. So, GG2 is a lot like TF2, but less lethal with faster movement and shots are significantly easier to hit (provided you're not lagging). It has a pretty "lively" competitive 4v4 CTF scene certain times of the year (if you can call it that), and the biggest difference in it is how quickly someone can get from one flag to the other. On ctf_conflict, the community's badlands (here's a picture: http://bit.ly/OXbpKS), the time walking from one flag to the other, as a scout, is faster than the badlands demoman rollout, and after five seconds of running, unless the enemy team is camping your own base, you're home free. On top of that, matches usually last around ten minutes max (people complain when they're longer, in my experience). The flag chases are entertaining, to say the least, and watching an inexperienced medic detach from their team and manage to grab the flag from behind in a low level game, running through literally all four of their enemies without dying, told me a lot about how punishing it is to miss those few shots you have on the flag carrier, and even though the example is absurd, that's what CTF should be have and be about, nimble intel grabs and movement vs aim getaways.

Continuing on the differences between the two games (since I have the most experience with GG2's CTF) if I were to make a TF2 CTF map, I would probably balance it around 4v4, since that's what I have the most experience with in a TF2-like environment. It would be small enough for a scout to go from spawn to the middle in around eight seconds (spawn to flag in a over double/under triple that), and balance the paths so that there's no huge long flank that you can't get to from the main map (which seems to be the problem with most custom CTF maps in tf2). I don't like turbine a lot because it revolves around owning the center of the map, and unless the "losing" team takes it back they're at a disadvantage (it's like koth). For comparison, here's a breakdown of conflict's path structure (on top; the bottom was an example of a bad map): http://i.imgur.com/cOXKG.png
And here's turbine pro (made in five minutes): http://i.imgur.com/p2KlB.png

In turbine, each path branches, which prevents some gamebreaking choke holds, but at the same time it gives the defending team several (unmarked) opportunities to intercept the flag carrier, especially because of the map's architecture. With high playercounts (cough highlander) you can't really have one person swoop in at a little disadvantage and grab the flag with enough movement skill; they'll just get mowed down because TF2 lacks all-around special mobility. In conflict, there's lots of small opportunities for the defending team to intercept the carrier, but none of them are very strong, because the middle of the map can't be held with a deadlock (in anything from 4s to 6s anyway) and because of the low lethality and pace of the game, it's easy for your team to protect you at the most dangerous one, as long as you out-coordinate your opponents. I can see ubers used to protect the flag carrier instead of being used to break into the flag room, and I can see people skipjumping across the flag as demoman just to move it into the heart of their team, even if they get sniped down or killed otherwise. Of course, you do need chokepoints and tight turns to prevent relatively unfair stickyjumping escapes, but having too many lets people seize small advantages to totally shut down deserved capping. In turbine you can get halfway across the map with the flag, then you're almost guaranteed to die if the opposing team is alive and has a dime worth of a brain, and you've lost it because they can easily control the areas that you have to go through, and they don't even have to put up a fight.

When I started playing TF2, CTF was my favorite gamemode. Now it's push CP, after 1200 hours of refusing to accept that at the very least, tf2's CTF maps suck. Even in my other favorite arena shooters like Quake and Gang Garrison, CTF is at least viable for comp, but in TF2 it's basically dead. What's the reason? Is the gamemode just broken? (Chase the enemy flag carrier!) Are the maps just unbalanced with the "easy, long" routes too hard or risky to intercept? Is it the slow flag return? What gives? 5CP is so good, the meta is great and the maps are good (with some exception... :< fastlane) too. A/D payload works, even if it's bad without a high playercount. CTF in other games is a lot of fun, risking traded captures and cutting off the enemy team one way or another. In TF2 it's just bad, turning into a relatively disorganized DM shitfest. Why?

elite players are elite because they're good at the game

why would you hate it that the best players decide how it's played

I mean it's better than someone who's bad & doesn't know shit (like you lol)

wow rude

you can take 1v1s with it if you have godly shotgun aim and a shotgun

blame tf2maps.net "scaling lessons" trying to prevent another mach4 from happening

guys you all care way too much

The equalizer (now escape plan) is a vital part of NA 6s meta because it allows for MORE AGGRESSIVE and FASTER midfights.

The wrangler is "vital" because it does the exact opposite and lets bad players force the other team to either be lucky or significantly better than them to have a reasonably swift match.

It seems large and like there's a lot of routes between each point (reminds me of foundry); Aside from that, I like the architecture quite a bit. I'd need to see it ingame to judge well enough.

A couple months ago I was fancying the idea of having a charge on it, where as it took damage or you fired with it, it lost energy and it had to replenish over time.

only problem I have is that the health gets the damaged background sometimes (probably when I die from more than half my health in damage from above half health? I'll check it out)

revanxp HUD (my favorite) and broesel HUD (very similar; maybe?) should work; I don't know other HUDs well, though
alternatively you could run in borderless windowed mode with a 16:10/16:9 resolution the width of your monitor, don't know if large mouse movements would let you click outside the window that way though (you could just use raw input with the windows setting very low like I do if it's completely necessary)

don't allow the spycicle, the fireproofing alone is gamebreaking in its own right, it basically gives over-aggressive spies an extra get out of jail free card vs pyros. the dead ringer is balanced well enough, they don't need an extra, class-specific "feign" designed to counter a counter, that they can use without the downside of giving up liberal cloak usage.

aside from that the banlist looks totally solid (though I would enjoy gas jockey and medieval medic being allowed), gj.