Competitive TF2 is a 1 hour / week investment minimum.

DarkNecrid articulated it better than I ever could. The new Flamethrower isn’t slightly easier to aim, it literally has perfect accuracy so long as you manage to hit one particle out of every ten. The Dragon’s Fury also punishes you severely for missing, and crucially, you can’t airblast after pressing m1, which is hugely significant when playing a reflect mindgame or fighting multiple opponents, as the Soldier/Demo has a window where they are completely safe if they shoot a projectile against DF while they can never be sure if you're spraying them with flames.

I’ve been fighting Degreaser Pyros for months in HL and it is frustrating as fuck. There are players that formerly pulled sub 150 DPM and whose playstyles consisted entirely of spychecking, stalling Uber, and killing bombers, players who had exceedingly mediocre DM, who are now pulling 300-400 DPM and top fragging in plat because the new flames are so easy to aim that you have to actively try to miss them. I wish every other flamethrower was banned. I wish Pyro took skill again.

If Degreaser or even Stock Pyro is allowed and the Dragons Fury takes far more skill than them while sacrificing a shit ton of versatility (including the only reason anyone currently bothers using Pyro, uberstalling) for slightly more range vs a single target and being able to run Detonator, then the Dragons Fury should be unbanned. It’s worse at being a combat class than Scout and Soldier because of movespeed and worse at doing the Pyro’s job, airblasting. Anyone whining about the Dragons Fury needs to play a few weeks of Highlander fighting the new Flamethrower, and they’d be begging to include it.

Agree, although I think considering how easy to use an item is compared to its counterparts is significant.

Is losing a Pistol really that much of a sacrifice? Is losing a Winger really that much of a sacrifice if the Atomizer is unbanned, a move that you support?

Agree. Remember when everyone refused to allow Powerjack because they were afraid that Pyro mids would destroy the game since Pyro is so much more powerful than a Scout or Soldier?

I thought this was a global whitelist. Why, exactly, were only ETF2L players consulted, and why, exactly, should ESEA players give a fuck about the ETF2L whitelist if they don't give a fuck about us?

By this logic, you should also be testing Dragon's Fury, whip, Short Circuit, Wrangler, and Second Banana.

EDIT: also hot hand and jetpack

EDIT: and guillotine. and CaC. and atomizer.

Also, we have allowed Bonk extensively, and it proved to be extensively utter bullshit. The nerf is completely irrelevant to the fact that there is no way to deny a Bonk Scout from going where he wants to go without spending a disproportionately large amount of attention and ammo, and the Scout can time it so he lands on your Medic right as he stops being invincible.

This doesn't make sense. Dragon's Fury is the only new primary. You can run Dragon's Fury, either Jetpack or Gas Passer, and Hot Hand at the same time.

EDIT: Oh, you’re talking about the Backburner. If you’re concerned about multiple weapons why not just ban that, since it’s bugged? It’s not like anyone will use the Backburner anyway, I’m pretty sure I’m the only 6s player who has equipped that thing in the last year.

The choice between shooting four rockets or shooting one minicrit rocket while being basically immobile is an interesting decision, there are a few new fast rollouts that look to charge shot the Demo or the combo as they get to mid. Also, ammo management is not interesting. Teams don't push when Soldiers run out of ammo, the only way it’ll make the game faster is because there’ll always be two Soldiers to kill the Sentry.

As for the Natascha, what exactly got changed? Do you mean that all miniguns ramp slightly faster? Because that doesn't change Natascha's standing among miniguns. As for the notion that Natascha is "braindead", Heavy is braindead. Why not ban Heavy? Deciding which primary to use, Tomislav's sniping vs Stock's power vs Natascha's close-range slow vs non-Ubered targets and damage resist is possibly the only part of Heavy that takes a brain, besides revving (which is slower, and therefore more inflexible and punishing with Natascha).

Why is this short period we have now sufficient to test parachute and bonk, which are hugely different and complex, but not Atomizer? Atomizer third jump is basically the same thing as the Winger. We know what Winger jumps are at this point, the only question is if Pistol / Atomizer is too strong or if people abuse the third jump in-combat and it's too strong (unlikely).

Speaking of brainless weapons, why the fuck is this shit still here?

In practice, not really. It does more DPS right after SP shoots the second shot, and it has better DPS after Scattergun shoots 6 shots because of a more effective reload. However, in practice the Scattergun has higher DPS because longer intervals between fighting and reloading are more organic for Scout, since you usually will die or kill something before the extra DPS from the efficient reload becomes relevant, and you'd fall back to your Medic and get rebuffed in roughly the intervals of shoot 6 shots-->reload 6 shots.

It gives Medics like 30 HP, the upside only matters if you're playing aggressive flank Heavy and people take 1v1s with you, which is a shit idea and nobody will do that.

I edited my post with more thoughts. I agree that it'd be an unhealthy change for the metagame if it becomes ubiquitous, although I'm not sure what you mean when you say that picks matter less in a Quick-Fix meta (unless you mean you can't push off of one pick with megaheal because it's terrible at walking through chokes and encourages running turtle classes?)

I'd like to make a note that the Dragon's Fury obliterates it, for what that's worth. (Also, Heavy and Loose Cannon are worse, Machina is a stronger option against it, and Axtinguisher is bad.)

How exactly does Quick-Fix build rate work? There's nothing in the patch notes or the wiki.

EDIT: ty DarkNecrid

to light up your eyes: "How exactly does Quick-Fix build rate work?"
to light up your eyes: basically they changed the entire build rate mechanic
to light up your eyes: before you got max rate up to 142.5%, which means QF always had max rate as u know
to light up your eyes: now you get max rate as long as you're genuinely healing someone (overheals count)

I think it should be banned simply because it lets the Medic escape fights he deserves to die in which creates more stalemates, and megaheal still ties with Uber while the heal rate means you win the post-fight, which encourages a slow playstyle. The fact that it encourages running Pyro, Sniper, and Heavy, and can't walk through stickytraps, is also an issue, although the Quickiebomb Launcher deleting stickytraps mitigates the last bit.

However, it may be that people will just run Dragon's Fury / Detonator or Scorch Shot and demolish it so hard that nobody will run it.

I really think the Pocket Pistol is broken. If people actually think it's anything less than a straight upgrade (especially since you want to unban Atomizer), then you can test it, but I think it's going to take maybe ten minutes before people realize it's broken as fuck. 5-ish damage per hit at mid range is insane on Scout.

Sure. I will miss the Pistol / Winger dichotomy that will disappear if the Atomizer is unbanned, but Atomizer isn't broken anymore.

The fact that you do minicrits is ridiculous. It's worse without speed, but you don't take any extra damage until you first shoot your gun, which is pretty nice. Minicrits on Scout are broken even without speed. Minicrit Scattergun is absolutely insane on sacs, during Ubers, and possibly Shortstop / CaC to mid on Granary. Especially if Atomizer is unbanned, you're not giving up much of anything to run CaC and the benefit is absolutely nuts.

spamming a 50 damage + 40 bleed projectile that's immune to falloff every 5 seconds is still broken without minicrits.

Sure.

Sure.

It's annoying as fuck, even just if Soldier's using it. This doesn't need to be a thing, we don't need to incentivize waddling and deincentivize jumping.

Borderline, deserves to be tested. Will note that I personally detest fighting it, but I play roamer and the only thing that weapon is good for is obliterating roamers, so take note of that. It might also be broken in conjunction with Bonk sac (you dodge most damage with the jumps, time the Bonk so it ends right as you land on the Medic's face, and puts out 208 damage in .315 seconds), but that's not that important since Bonk is broken in and of itself.

I am 90% sure nobody will run this thing and give up Gunboats or Shotgun.

If Eviction Notice didn't make people run Heavy to mid, Steak won't either. If you stack them, you can't switch to your primary and you get to mid with 100 health because of Eviction Notice change.

It shoots small health kits, nobody will use it.

Uh...yeah, it's been proven to be broken like, every other season.

Why does anyone want to play a metagame where Medics don't run Ubersaw? Can we just ban every non-Ubersaw melee right now?

I'd like to see this tested. It seems like Vaccinator led to uncrackable last stalemates in EU, and nobody ever equipped it in NA. I'd like to see NA invite teams try the Vaccinator Heavy + Pyro protecting Sentry or Sniper + Sentry hold, since it seems like our top level teams are closer together in skill.

...hasn't it? Do people actually think free, unmissable minicrits with giant splash every time you hit resupply isn't broken?

I really don't like how you can jump your Medic out of shitty situations, but it's worth testing I guess.

Agree with all of this.

Battalion's Backup is also certainly broken, and Bonk, Parachute, CaC, and Pocket Pistol most likely (99%) belong there as well.

The Beggar's Bazooka is completely useless so long as people get banned for abusing the glitch, Sandman is a joke (the slow is worthless compared to -15 HP), and Backburner facecritting is so wonky to setup that just WM1ing is better in every situation.

EDIT:

Yeah, that reason is bullshit. The real reason is running Heavy to mid, letting Medics escape when they should die, and encouraging turtling and non-standard classes in general to an unhealthy level. People are still going to run it outside of midfights, bombing with whip speed is fucking amazing.

alright does anybody think it'll be broken to kritz a cm5k soldier because it now does minicrits

the reason the cm5k is bad is it does jack shit to sentries, the kritz thing is completely irrelevant

"It's not overpowered or broken, but it's different, so we're banning it." I disagree with this philosophy.

How did the Natascha get changed? The only thing I can find is a nerf, that cleaver doesn't crit when the target is slowed. Unless you mean the general buff to all Miniguns?

borp

Social cues. Queues are lines that people wait in. Cues are indicators.

If you want to be better at being social, read How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie. It is a very, very good book.

http://images.kw.com/docs/2/1/2/212345/1285134779158_htwfaip.pdf

an lg would be cool, not sure how much fun being melted by a crit laser would be though.

the criticism below is about old pyro mechanics and i agree with a lot of stuff you said in regards to new pyro

this is blatantly wrong, if it was true that all pyros have equal flamethrower aim then pyros w+m1ing into pyros s+m1ing would always lose, all other things besides mechanical skill being equal, and that is obviously false

where are these well-regarded pyro players and their persuasive arguments about how the flamethrower doesn't take aim?

EDIT: also, how would a pyro even become well-regarded, considering there's no difference between a low-skill Pyro and a high-skill Pyro?

by that logic, syringe gun is broken and takes no aim because if you w+m1 into someone you're almost guaranteed to hit them at least once

why is hitting someone once good enough? (you can't say afterburn because you specifically said that wasn't the issue.) that metric disproportionately makes all weapons with fast RoF take no skill. if you make the claim that the flamethrower takes no skill because it's easy to hit someone once, then you must also claim:

"pistol is easy to hit someone once, therefore it takes no skill."

"smg is easy to hit someone once, therefore it takes no skill."

"the lightning gun is easy to hit someone once, therefore it takes no skill."

and i don't think you're willing to say that.

great, now try searching "demoman m1m2"

are we trusting youtube to inform us about what skill in this game is?

medigun and sentries take zero skill and have maybe a hundredth of the learning curve to be proficient (4 1 m1 and go afk, or auto-lock on a teammate and don't leave his range, no mouse movement necessary)

and how can you claim this while immediately seguing into talking about reflects, which even according to you have all of those requirements

also getting good flamethrower tracking is harder than airblast into secondary (which, when it stunlocked, took zero skill except against scouts) and understanding when to use flames is harder than understanding when to airblast into secondary (which is most of the time)

Obviously, you can go from this point to saying “well, do you think we should unban Wrangler / Short Circuit so Engineer can be viable in 6s and attract Engineers to 6s?” and so on, but I can counter that by saying those unlocks are overpowered and being overpowered is why things are banned, which still doesn't violate my point that “We should aim to entice the existing TF2 playerbase and seeing Pyro run in 6s will interest that demographic.”

What are you talking about? Almost every last on every map has a ton of room and different entrances spread out. If the pushing team pressures the flank they can easily get a pick before anyone can rotate, especially not a Pyro. Then they take the 6v5 and win because it's a 6v5.

You seem to be under the impression that Pyro can 1v2 / 1v4 / 1v6 people with the Dragon's Fury, which is obviously not true assuming all players are of roughly equal skill.

Sizzlingstats is broken and there are only HL demos on demos.tf Give me a demo of a close scrim and if he hits every shot, I'll retract my statement.

Also, some ETF2L players tell me what level an ETF2L mid player is in terms of NA leagues because I don't pay attention to you guys outside of i-series. I've asked some people and the consensus seems to be that ETF2L mid is like mid ESEA Open. If that's true, then this guy is too low level to make any judgments based on him.

He isn't what?

This makes me doubt your competence and question if you have ever fought a competent player with it.

Yes, you have to lead with it.

No, if you aim it like hitscan the hitbox will not compensate for you not leading.

This makes me think you are still in the mindset of “The Pyro will always be fighting at super close range.” In those cases you'd be right. Most fights are not at close range in 6s, you can't create fights at close range without relying on the other team's mistakes, and people will not approach a Dragon's Fury Pyro when they can win the fight by staying outside of flamethrower range. I've recorded some footage of Dragon's Fury MGE (against an Invite player) and we can watch it together in slow motion, if you like, but I don't have experience with video editing so it may take a bit.

If Dragon's Fury is a viable option, then people are going to run it in matches. Therefore, teams will scrim with it, because they want to be prepared for it when it comes out in a match.

The reason people don't want to scrim Lowpander is because Lowpander strategies are not viable and only the meme team in question uses those strategies, which makes it bad practice for playing against anyone except Lowpander.
If Dragon's Fury isn't viable in matches, then nobody will run it in scrims who doesn't already go full-muuki in scrims because they don't want to lose scrim partners.

The Market Gardener is a joke. You counter market gardener by not moving predictably and hitscan. It's similar to the Dragon's Fury in that if you fuck up with it you are punished extremely hard (since you have to strafe very close to your target, they can predict where you're going to fly, which makes it easy to line up shots).

Why didn't you turn around?

Spy isn't banned. If you think the analogy from Dragon's Fury to Spy is accurate, and Spy isn't banned, then doesn't that follow that Dragon's Fury shouldn't be banned? Just like you can easily turn around to prevent a backstab, you can easily not walk into a Pyro and not take damage from Dragon's Fury.

Spy is the least complained about class in 6s by several orders of magnitude (in fact I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about Spy outside of Diamondback, old Red-Tape Recorder, old Enforcer, and seeing disguises through walls). This is because whenever you get killed by a Spy it's obviously your fault.

First question: who are you?

Second and third questions: why do you think your opinion holds any weight, or that the fact that you endorse a particular side matters?

Fourth question: why did you click on this thread if you didn't want to read discussions about 6s class balance?

Yeah, I misunderstood what you were talking about. TF2 general discussion is a subforum about 6s usually, I didn't realize you were talking about pubs.

You contradicted yourself. TF2 is not a game about killing people. You win TF2 by completing the objective. You're using the wrong metric, probably because you don't play 6s. In pubs, there's no teamwork, and no reward for completing an objective - people become focused on what they decide matters, like topscoring, or getting a bunch of kills, or a high KDR. In 6s there is only winning.

Whether or not something is better at killing people is irrelevant, whether or not something is better at winning is what's important. For example, the Crossbow is worse at killing people and a much stronger weapon than the Syringe. The Battalion's Backup outclasses the Shotgun even though it's worse at killing things. Escape Plan is much weaker at killing people than Market Gardener but a stronger option because it provides an essential escape and repositioning tool for low heatlh/ammo Soldiers that compensates for a weakness. Jarate and Mad Milk are great examples, you lose a bit of sustain from Pistol but gain disgusting amounts of utility for your team. When people who are playing to win pick their unlocks, they (should) measure the strength of each option by how likely it is to make their team win, not about how high they can pad their stats.

Therefore, the fact that Medic doesn't kill people is irrelevant to the pressing concern that Medic is the easiest class yet one of the most powerful, and that contradiction can only be resolved if you admit that skill-to-impact ratio doesn't matter in terms of balancing.

You're doing that thing again, that thing where you talk about a hypothetical to avoid admitting that you have no counter to my argument that Engineer should be banned, according to your philosophy, because it takes zero skill to build sentries yet they kill people.

I agree with you that Sentries have too high of a skill to impact ratio.

For me, the joy of Engineer is pushing with it, as it's an extremely inflexible class and requires a lot of situational awareness and ability to understand what's going on, or you're very easily punished for building your gun in the wrong spot or moving it at the wrong time. I hate the Gunslinger because mini-sentries are cheap and fast-building, so you aren't punished for making mistakes and it still takes no aim to kill people. But it's still allowed in 6s. Why? Because it's not very good. If we were balancing based on skill-to-impact ratio then Engineer, or at least Gunslinger, would be banned. Therefore 6s banning philosophy does not depend on skill-to-impact ratio.

I'm skipping past more suggestions to fix Engineer. I want to talk about them but I hit word limit last time and my goal is to unban DF.

I don't think so. That may be a contributing factor, but it's certainly not the reason.

It's because there was no official competitive matchmaking for a long time, and now that there is, it's fucking garbage and nobody cares about it.

For people who didn't play league competitive, regular TF2 spent a long time where winning wasn't actually the point, you get to choose how you have fun in the game. The people who care about winning are a small portion of the pub community. Some of those people found league TF2. Some of them disregarded it because they met toxic competitive players in lobbies or in pubs, which also happens in other games. Some of those people found in-game matchmaking first and, upon realizing that there is no reward, no rank-based matching, no class limits, no whitelist, no communication, and no teamwork, decided that competitive TF2 was stupid and decided to never try it again.

This is what makes TF2 unique – it's a multiplayer FPS without official competitive, which disincentives winning, and therefore, improving mechanics.

What pic?

Hm, that's an interesting point. I have no way of proving that you're not right.

I'll attack this “we won't be able to attract serious CS players because dragon's fury is stupid” from a new angle.

Serious CS players already think this game is a joke.

The playerbase that competitive TF2 wants to attract is the 99% of players who love TF2 and don't play competitive. If Pyro was viable, then let's say another 1/9 of the playerbase joins. That's a 25% increase if we assume that there is roughly the same amount of players for every class, and probably more than that since nobody likes playing Medic.
So many pubbers complain about a “stale metagame where nothing ever changes.” Robin Walker did as well – commenting on the competitive scene in some Community vs Pro thing, he said as much, as well as something along the lines of “I wish we could see innovation in the meta like vhalin running Black Box in HL every week.” Change makes people curious and interested. Players who have never played competitive TF2 can only understand the most obvious changes in the meta, which are offclassing, unlocks, and maps. I think the lowest common denominator demographic of TF2 would be more interested in 6s if Pyro was viable.

The ratio of skill ceiling to impact is irrelevant to balance. Medic is, by far, the class with the highest skill floor, the highest skill to impact ratio, and one of the most powerful classes in the game, yet it isn't banned.

I agree, I hate how they ruined flamethrower and I hope they change it back.

I'm pretty sure the 13 per particle is just because they halved particle number and doubled particle damage though.

Then kill everyone who isn't by the Pyro while the Pyro is completely useless, or simply outspam their team. The Pyro can't approach you, there's nothing he can do besides 20 dmg shotgun, Det/Scorch, or use a gutted airblast, all of which are pretty shit.

If we balanced by cherry picked clips, Sniper would be banned because of tviq and powah's streams.

That explains a lot, although you clearly do care about 6s or you wouldn't be having this discussion.

Most of the unlocks after day 0 were fine. Jarate, Machina, Vaccinator, Rescue Ranger, Soda Popper, Battalion's Backup were/are the only issues iirc. Unlocks are not bad, not testing the whitelist is bad.

I think most people believe regular 3ks in frag videos are boring unless they're on Sniper, Spy, or Medic. If we're banning things based on how good they look in frag videos, Medic should be banned because the class is fucking terrible at frag videos. There are so fucking many "get a single kill with an arrow" clips.

Yes, they got outplayed. If you stack cap then you're taking a risk that you can cap it before they collapse on you and do a bunch of splash damage, which you prevent by shoving your teammates up to block spawn while one person caps. Soldier and Demo would be able to punish in the same way, except they can move faster.

Also, DF interacts REALLY weirdly with capture points and I've had so many instances of just not being able to kill anyone remotely near a point for some reason. It's annoying as hell.

Also personally I think offclassing in frag videos is always fun to watch even if it's just like, oh, the Heavy walked out of forward and killed some people. The fact that they have the balls to go on a shitty class and it works out is what's audacious and fun. example at 1:07:

https://youtu.be/P7IiVwVJ2us?t=65

I'm sure Overwatch spikes in interest when a new hero is released. Is Overwatch for children because Torbjorn, Symmetra, Winston, Mei, Bastion, and Orisa exist? Most Overwatch heroes are much easier and have much lower skill ceilings than Pyro - the characters move slower and there's no airstrafing. Headshot heroes and Ana are the exception.

I think competitive 6s would be fun to play at any point past the removal of random crits. However, I think you have it backwards. Most people are not CS players. Most people play class-based shooters because they want variety. I have so many Pyro mains I know who quit the game because they wanted to play Pyro competitively, but 4s is a joke and HL Pyro is soul-crushingly dull.

Personally, I started playing 6s because I saw Salamancer cast mackey doing bullshit things and that one warmfront game with Breloom on Gunslinger Engineer (

https://youtu.be/UtjJERoQ8XM

, and wanted to be exactly like them. I'm sure lots of players who don't main standard classes felt the same way, but never tried 6s because they assumed it would be impossible.

As for people who bitched about every time they die to a Pyro before Jungle update, I have no sympathy. Press s. Don't shoot rockets until they airblast. It is not complex or difficult to completely negate a Pyro outside of its role in stalling Ubers, everyone who said otherwise pre Jungle update has either never thought about it, never played Pyro, and/or is shit.

Find me a player who hits every shot with the DF who is shit at Soldier / Scout / Demo, and I'll concede the argument.

It's really not as easy as you think it is to fight competent players with it. The gimped airblast, slow switch speed, slow walk speed while firing, shit range, and extreme punishment for missing all contribute to the weapon's weaknesses. Being useless at midrange with no reliable way to approach is really, really bad. It makes it significantly worse at fighting Soldiers, yet you are basically forced to try to fight people, lest you bait your team, because you lack the utility of a spammable airblast like normal Pyro that allows you to play passive and not be a waste of a player slot.

Also that change sounds fantastic. Doesn't mean it should be banned now.

Heavy and Sentry are stronger on last because they have range. DF Pyro will get obliterated by slow pushing. It might be good on small maps like Badlands and Gullywash where the range isn't so much of a factor, but Heavy and Sentry aren't entirely negated by the "commit through the other entrances" strat.

that's not what you were arguing. you were arguing that DF is too powerful because it kills too fast to react to if they manage to get straight in your face.

the point that i'm making is that it doesn't matter how good you are at ambushing if you're worthless outside of ambushing.

I'm not saying that ambushes are useless because teams always check hiding spots. I'm saying that ambushing is a big risk that relies on the other team fucking up.

The far more pressing matter is most fights are not ambushes. You will have to take fights that are not ambushes unless you are baiting the fuck out of your team. That's why people don't run Tomislav Heavy or Spy full time even though they're really, really good at killing people when the other team doesn't know they're there.

Also bombing straight into people with jetpack isn't that great of a strategy, the switch speed is painful and gives the enemy lots of time to stall you in the air (Pyro is super light). Also it's not very fast and doesn't go very far.

I'd like to note that you're shifting the argument from "it's not fair that something that takes no mechanical skill can kill me before i can react if they ambush me" to "ambushing is way easier on Pyro than Spy."

Cloaking behind and stabbing people who aren't looking at you is not difficult in any sense. Getting into position while invisible is not more difficult than hiding around a corner. Cloaking is just a million times more strong and flexible. There's way more that you can do with it.

The skill part of Spy isn't getting into position, it's knowing when to play Spy and picking the right opportunity to commit. The latter isn't possible for the Pyro to control.

I think you're conflating "airblasting isn't good" and "airblasting with the DF isn't good." Airblasting is great. It has a massive hitbox, fucks up their aim, it prevents them from going where they want to do, and reflecting prevents damage to yourself and your team.

I think you're right that you probably won't need to airblast much with the thing if you're in flamethrower range, other than Soldiers jumping into your face and Spies. What I'm concerned about is if a Soldier is straddling the tip of your range and putting out 70 damage rockets into you - if you airblast then they know they're safe enough to fire a free rocket. If you don't airblast or switch weapons, you're not doing anything and will eventually die if you don't leave. And if you do end up airblasting to reflect, you can mitigate the cooldown period of the DF by shooting with your secondary. I think this weakness to mid-ranged spam is really going to put a damper on how good DF is since it's impossible for the DF Pyro to create situations where he can do work, and if the other team doesn't walk into him, ceteris paribus, they will win the fight.

Rockets and stickies don't need to aim directly to do damage either.

If Pyro isn't overpowered with DF then it should be unbanned.

EDIT:

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/8/84/Rocket_launcher.png/250px-Rocket_launcher.png?t=20140603154418

Where are you getting this 90% number from?