<reserved just in case>

A Comprehensive List of Everything Wrong with Competitive Arena:Respawn
Feel free to only read the points in bold. If you get confused by anything or you find yourself disagreeing with a point, you can continue reading the unbolded areas.

I’m posting this because I’m getting a pretty significant amount of messages from people all caps-ing at me for “dissing on arena respawn” and “[not] giving any reasons as to why [l] hate the format” and "not giving [it] a fair chance". I've basically written this out (though less formatted) to a couple dozen people over the past few weeks, so I figured I’d make a public resource both for my benefit and for anyone else interested in the topic.

Unlike a small number of people in this community, I'm willing to try new formats. I've just found through doing that that 6s and HL are (currently) (by far) the best game modes.

The majority of high level players that have played arena respawn say that it’s fun, but it isn't a very viable competitive format. A couple weeks ago, I made a tftv post and a video explaining why. The majority of people in the community don’t want to sit down and watch an open player ramble about anything for an hour and twenty minutes, so here’s a comprehensive list of everything wrong with competitive arena respawn in it’s current form. I’m up for adjusting, removing, or adding anything on this list. Feel free to comment or message me if anything confuses you, or you think anything in this post isn't objectively true.

1. In pickup games and TF2 centers, the players have no clue what classes they will be playing (or will even be allowed to play) going into the game.
   
   
2. Sort of going along with #1, the ban system takes time away from playing and puts it into pregame discussions, which may be kind of interesting in matches, but would be frustrating in pick up games/ tf2centers.
   
   In the current formats that are played in tf2center and pugs (Highlander, 6v6, 4v4, Ultiduo, and BBall), the players know exactly what class/ role they will be playing going into the game. In arena respawn, there are no set classes or even role for the players to decide on before they commit half an hour to the game.
   
   This will cause issues when the players actually enter the game. Aside from joining the server and mumble which can take several minutes already, the players will have to break down the strategy to decide who’s able to play what, then ban classes, then decide who will end up playing what. This will take a fair amount of time, and there’s no way every player in any given game will be able to play exactly what they want.
   
   This causes the entry level to be much higher, as players need to have several classes under their belt instead of just one. This may sound simple if you’ve been playing the game for a long time, but competitive should be open to both the players that have been around for years AND the 100 hour pyro mains.
   
   
3. Valve balances weapons off of how they play in 24-slot servers, so shoehorning all 129 unlocks (and effectively 20 stock items) into 5v5 play and expecting it to work out is a terrible idea.
   
   It’s fine that the game is balanced around pubs; that’s where the majority of the playerbase is. But some of the weapons in Team Fortress 2 are inherently flawed when their powers aren’t counteracted by the white noise of 23 other players fighting over a single cart or control point. It kind of works in highlander (18 slots), but anything less is generally not a good idea.
   
   
4. No, valve will not balance tf2 off of how arena respawn games play.
   
   This may seem silly, but I’ve actually heard this argument, so let’s clear that up.
   
   The notion that valve is willing to “fix” unlocks based on how they play in 5v5 is… I don’t even know what to call it. You’ll never get the potential team loadout compilation for a 24-slot game in a 10-slot game, so balancing anything for the smaller game could potentially make the 24-slot pub game less fun and even less balanced.
   
   
5. The inconsistency of the quality of the games is huge.
   
   Not because of matchups, teams, or players. But because the class bans can be so stupid that the game has no redeeming aspects for any of the players. Example: pug on arena_2fort with no soldiers or demos. Yeah the buffed snipers on batts/ wrangled mini sentries/ quickfix heavies sure led to some fantastic TF2!
   
   It sucks though, because the best games of A:R are pretty decent. Fun, even. But those games are pretty rare.
   
   
6. An open whitelist, despite having more weapons, will inevitably shrink the meta.
   
   An open whitelist seems like it would allow for a more diverse spectrum of loadout possibilities. The result of an open whitelist, however, is a meta that revolves around abusing the most broken weapons and constantly switching between the most gimmicky weapons. This, in turn forces a passive and unfun playstyle to both play and spectate.
   
   I see this first-hand in the pick-up games I play in. "Other medic is running quick-fix? Now we have to or we'll get mulched 30 seconds into the round.", "That sniper is running the danger shield, I have to as well.", etc
   
   
7. An open whitelist, despite presenting more weapons to choose from, will inevitably lower the skill ceiling.
   
   If you allow, for example, a gunslinger engineer in the fight to replace a roamer or scout, the skill ceiling is lowered. Over the course of an hour, I could teach my mom (I love you mom) how to W to mid optimally and place a mini sentry then play passive until another mini needed to be placed. She might feel an overwhelming amount of motion sickness, but she will place that minisentry just as well as anyone.
   
   This is obviously an exaggerated example, but it paints a good picture as to why whitelists are good for the skill ceiling of the game.
   
   To some, lowering the skill ceiling sounds like a good thing. But to the vast majority of players that are actually good at the game, this is a terrible idea. Also from a spectators viewpoint, the game is less fun to watch the lower the skill ceiling is.

There are more things, in my eyes, that are bad about the format. I want to keep all subjectivity and personal bias off of this list, though. I may post those somewhere at some point in time.

If you have something you feel like I missed, feel free to message me.

Also note, I have nothing against pub arena respawn, and the creator of A:R (awk) seems like a pretty decent dude. This direction people want to take his mod, however, isn't very smart.

edit: fixed # of unlocks in the game from 124 to 129. i think that's right.
edit 2: added hyperlinks for my original post/ video
edit 3: fixed spelling errors in intro and #6
edit 4: fixed small spelling error in last paragraph of intro

I have to bail. I wish I could go to help with production and hang out with people again (gxl was an incredibly awesome experience), but school stuff popped up and that will always be a priority, obviously. sorry guys! ;-;

R I P

No one is losing their collateral if they haven't had an opportunity to play, that would be silly. I'm just letting everyone know where they are. Sorry if I was unclear.

tay zonday spirals into oblivion, the stream highlight

Hey guys. A quick (and important) update!

I was pretty lenient with who is getting their collateral back for a while, but it's gotten to a point where I'm spending about an hour every day organizing people's matches for them. From this point on, if you're two or more rounds behind your schedule, you will not be receiving your collateral back. You can still play, but you will be out 2 keys (sorry!). These will go towards the prizepot, not me or some other admin.

A list of team #s who will not be receiving their collateral back as of the last edit of this post:
#4, #26, #28, #29, #34, #35, #41, #42, #46

A list of teams at risk (already one match behind as the last edit of this post):
#7, #11, #14, #15, #18, #21, #24, #31, #35, #39, #40, #50

God bless:
#9 trip and evil mrmuffins
#27 Yeremy and ATT-
#38 "4G"
#45 "dankness suppliers"
for being 100% on time

I'm still working at increasing the prizepot. If you have any money or in game currency (keys or bigger pls) that you'd like to donate, get in contact with me via tftv message, through steam, or leave a comment in the thread.

http://www.twitch.tv/year/2014

http://i.imgur.com/PwtL0Tj.png

Pretty neat, imo. The rest of the stats are cool as well.

Really neat doc just released by Riot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bQBmAO0hk4

I'd be happy to continue the tf2pov channel if no one more established wants to.

Still stuck at 220. Been asking around big tf2 orgs/ services to fill the rest of what I want (120 more dollars), and I will keep searching until I either find it or run out of time.

Hopefully it works out. :)

bump, looking to backup mid-high open

i like the part where you call me out on the forums after i do your team a huge favor. i agreed to play on your team until you got your internet fixed. i messaged you earlier tonight and this happened

if you think that i did you any disservice at all, you're disillusional. and if you don't, then don't post shit like this, it's not cool.

edit grammar

if he's looking for players interested in forming a team then he should use the LFT or LFP subforums. that's why i was confused.

no date for tournament

no info about tournament

no reason for west coast only

bad format

? ? ? ?

From reading the post, I have no idea what you even want. Like, signups for a tournament? Signups for scrims that have something to do with your 5 man team? What are you trying to do here?

Honestly order between division and multiplication shouldn't be an issue unless the expression is written really poorly. I don't remember ever being taught which was first or to go left to right or anything.