So it never really seemed to me before that the workshop page got much attention, so I didn't bother updating it. Kind of an annoying process to go through, really. I didn't realize this fact though. It's updated now. :D

Uberchain, I appreciate the fuck out of what you wrote here. It is nice to know that people understand where I'm at. I'm not sure what I'm going to end up doing but I will say that logjam is just about done with actually level changes.

I'm not going to stop. I'll see the map to the end and that will be that. Likely graphical changes at this point, unless RC11 is a giant pile of garbage - we'll just have to see on that one.

It's on me too for sure - I've been out of contact with the scene for several months (probably jan-may or so) so I didn't really have a good grasp on season timelines.

For what it's worth, the test versions have been out for about a month and nobody had anything to say, so I went ahead with it.

There's definitely an issue of ETF2L / ozfortress players playing the map and the vast majority of people I associate with and talk to being NA TF2 players anymore, which also doesn't help.

I suppose my quest for updating the map was always in the hope of getting the map broken into the NA TF2 scene, which I've still not managed to accomplish after 5 years. If NA still doesn't want to accept it, there must be something wrong, right? Couple that thought with just looking at the map and there are some things that I can see that are objectively wrong (which drove some of the changes this time around), that said they probably weren't fixed the best way they could've been because of a lack of testing / etc.

I probably should have thrown in the towel a long time ago. Maybe it's time.

tossing my own biases aside I do think this is a good idea. Even if it means ETF2L and ozfortress ditch logjam in favor of the NA pool.

Thanks for the feedback guys! I wish I caught those spots. Playerclip is an endless job.

PJC, I want to see how this mid turns out. You've got good ideas. Definitely have considered something a la Gran catwalk before. We'll see how this one goes before I muck about with it further.

VirtualSoda, thank you for the list of details. They do matter. The map is still in RC, even if it's not as polished as others. When someone comes up with a list like this (HOI comes to mind... hehe) I tend to work through all of it for the next version regardless. Always good feedback.

Sidenote, I hate lighting in the source engine.

I ran around the map and gave it my mapmaker / subpar open player feedback on my stream. About 43 min worth or so, both for details and gameplay elements.

Here's my quick summary of the whole video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/442968220

Here's the whole vod, if interested: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/442952243

I'm not trying to intentionally be a dick or anything but in the short video summary I was trying to go fast so it comes off as a lot more rude than it actually is.

There's a fair amount of good design going on, but a couple big issues I didn't like.

The tl;dr is the vision of entrances is too strong for defenders.

god dammit sid

can we at least play my obstacle course I made for you for a half time game show during finals or something

cp_logjam_rc11: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7uqtngoebrb9n2t/cp_logjam_rc11.bsp?dl=0

Didn't hear much from anyone against these changes - so here is RC11!

Changes:
-removed the window at last
-added low fence on mid bridge
-tweaked cover on mid
-adjusted the high ground on mid
-adjusted choke ramp on mid side to make slides easier
-rotated spire on 2nd to make climbing to the point make more sense
-added a new small passage from the bridge on 2nd to choke

https://i.imgur.com/hEbjfvm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CAmxtKX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/apgl2ZP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TxG9J9p.jpg

rest of the world plays cp_logjam

... what did I do to piss off my own country

The above changes for rc11pre1 are all gameplay things largely - so I've been working a bit on details, here's some pics of how RC11 will look once actually released:

https://i.imgur.com/hEbjfvm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CAmxtKX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/apgl2ZP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TxG9J9p.jpg

Also, with the new tweak to choke ramp it's very easy even for bad jumpers like myself to do the following:

https://clips.twitch.tv/RamshackleCarelessBottleTebowing

cp_logjam_rc11pre1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjtrjcvteajujw4/cp_logjam_rc11pre1.bsp?dl=0

Little slow on the draw here. Life things keep happening! Haha. Putting out one pre-version, if things look OK and no one is hot about the changes I did make we'll ship RC11 for real by the end of the week.

Changes:
-removed the window at last
-added low fence on mid bridge
-tweaked cover on mid
-adjusted the high ground on mid
-adjusted choke ramp on mid side to make slides easier
-rotated spire on 2nd to make climbing to the point make more sense
-added a new small passage from the bridge on 2nd to choke

Screens:

https://i.imgur.com/2nKr8cB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dvODm4a.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/P1c0Lbx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3YNPjd0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ugm8Wep.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/apYdvp9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HhTFgl4.jpg

Fail is actually 100% right, you haven't actually played TF2 until you've come to see the probably ~30 messed up maps I've made.

One of these days I will actually organize an event for it. Lol. Who wants in?

I'm personally offended by this

So I've had an idea / image in the back of my head for a while, and decided to mock it up. By no means is this guaranteed to be RC11 at this time but I wanted to see if people think it's worth pursuing.

Download (changes made on RED side only - note no playerclip or optimization:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgkxcpwpuanljme/cp_logjam_rc11test.bsp?dl=0

Essentially - remove cave, move choke more towards where cave is presently, as well as changes on 2nd and mid. A new upper exit on 2nd from logroom satisfies the 2.5 entrance thought process.

Interested to hear what people think. I'm actually probably going to change mid more akin to this version for the actual RC11 (assuming these changes are a bit drastic for right before the season).

https://i.imgur.com/OMebD8g.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rOzVn6b.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qoCUa0N.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Lopol1P.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bJbDlMo.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cYCaWpW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cPN9O9v.jpg

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll probably toss a new test version out later this week.

Regarding this - I tend to kind of check in and see if anything's going on related to the maps every few weeks these days - so I didn't realize it was going to be new season time in ETF2L 'til I saw this thread. Lame excuse, but here we are.

That said, you underestimate the speed at which I can make changes... :P. That and the admins of all the leagues have always been super helpful as far as letting me put out versions after announcements (so long as I don't do anything too crazy).

I see this and I see the downvoted comment about logjam being actually good - anyone who's played it in season - please let me know what feedback you have. I have a wonderful list from ozfortress to work through for next season - so changes are coming.

If you have any points to make - now would be a good time.