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SteamID32 STEAM_0:1:44174393
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Signed Up August 2, 2016
Last Posted May 12, 2024 at 9:19 PM
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#170 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects
crazyAn issue I've seen occur with the elo system a few times now is that sometimes winning a pug gives you 0 elo meanwhile the losing team has a range from +0.0 to +2.0ish.

A particularly egregious example of this happening is this pug:
My team had lost 4-5, but we all gained elo in the range of +2.8 to +7.4, meanwhile the winning team didn't gain or lose elo from it. Also it is not like this is a one off thing, I have other examples of it happening from just a few nights ago as well.

I understand that there's probably a lot of factors that go on within the elo calculations, but I don't think it's right for the losing team to gain elo and winning team to gain nothing. (plus that's generating elo out of thin air which probably isn't good)

The point of elo is to give an approximate skill level. The idea is that if you do better than expected, you gain elo and if you do worse than expected, you lose elo. There's reasons why we don't use simple W/L to adjust skill. Say that we have peak froyo vs a low invite team that play each other 1000 times, and froyo wins 5-4 for all of those matches. With the elo system, everyone's elo would eventually converge to reflect their skill levels, such as 2100 for the low invite team and 2200 for froyo. If we used W/L, the low invite team's elo would be deflated to below newcomer, and froyo's would be highly inflated. We used to have the winner's elo slightly decrease if they were expected to roll, but barely won, but enough players complained that we removed that, which is why we have the "elo out of thin air".

posted 1 month ago
#165 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects

Haven't talked in a bit. Been cooking up this larger profile update.
Moving forward, we will be switching from smaller weekly updates to these larger and more fleshed-out updates to prepare for official release soon*!

- Chat has been added!

- Sort players by last division played (or equivalent division by elo)
-- You can update your last division played from your profile once a week
- Captains are highlighted upon captain button hover
- Players with a 5 win streak now have a burning name

- You can now rank maps to automatically vote for

Pug Info:
- Elo info added to history dropdown
- Logs are now displayed in history dropdown
- Captains are now indicated in rosters

Player Profile:
- Added competitive website profile links (e.g. rgl, steam, logs, demos, more, ugc)
- You can update your last division played from your profile once a week
- PUGs can now be sorted by role, format, and captain
- Trophies are visible for players with top 3 wins
- Win/loss and elo gain/loss is now graphed
- Global rankings are shown under number of PUGs and number of wins

- Link to player log now includes steam id selected
- Player cards should no longer sometimes show as blank "Player"
- Player avatars no longer squeeze with long usernames
- Shit ton of optimization stuff to reduce load time
- Fixed stv password being inaccurate when none is set
- Adjusted pug ban durations
- Player menus no longer appear in the wrong place
- Fixed some matches not updating player w/l records
- Other smol misc fixes

posted 1 month ago
#154 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects
ArieDolphInN...but we felt being able to directly handle the servers to insert our custom configs and plugins...
If we were able to 1. access to API, and 2. upload custom plugins, then we'd gladly explore using it.

This API is now a decade old and TF2Center has been running pugs without extra requirements. You can have a TF2Center game on a stock TF2 server as long as it has the map you're trying to play.
The other services don't require custom plugins, but even so, the previous incarnation of RGL pugs had a working API integration and their own custom plugin installed on all servers for stuff like team and nickname management.

That still doesn't really address the problem of our API keys being blocked when we were starting from scratch. Even if we didn't want to start from scratch, the previous developers that were running under the RGL PUGs label are not allowing us access to any of their work to look at. So while I'm glad other pug sites are finding success using serveme, we are going to use what works in the first place for us and would allow us greater flexibility in the future.

posted 2 months ago
#152 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects
JuustinDon't know what's going on, but we definitely need some transparency right now.
We went from 4+ servers, to 2 servers, and then back to only using 1 server? Causing a 'little battle' between the 6s and HL puggers on who can own the server (you can guess who won).
No response at this time in the RGL beta discussion on its discord. Assumption right now is that the servers are down for maintenance because a recent connectivity issue? (specifically for HL)

Been across the country for the weekend, so I have been unable to maintain the servers. All 4 should be operational now.

ArieJuustinWe went from 4+ servers, to 2 servers, and then back to only using 1 server?
Meanwhile at TF2Center, TF2Pugs and TF2Pickup......

We actually originally going to use the serveme API for integration. However, we discovered that either my API key or IP must've been specifically blacklisted. Other RGL devs' keys seemed to work, but we felt being able to directly handle the servers to insert our custom configs and plugins, along with not needing to add another failure point of interacting with another service, was a better decision. If we were able to 1. access to API, and 2. upload custom plugins, then we'd gladly explore using it.

posted 2 months ago
#143 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects

Back to weekly update #6
- It's now random which captain picks first
- Winning a PUG no longer decreases your elo, regardless of other factors
- Volume per-notification can be adjusted
- Increased post-pug voice channel lifetime from 8 to 15 minutes
- There is now a pre-ready option for 10 minutes
-- We plan to add an alert when it expires in the next update, along with being able to customize how long you want your pre-readies to last

- Fixed players getting kicked from servers they are pugging on
- Fixed players not being able to use voice activity when channels are merged
- Fixed missing player stats in queue
- Fixed ineligible player role picks not being shown
- Fixed one of the servers having a 30min config instead of 20min

posted 2 months ago
#139 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects
trippai would like it if the site 50/50d on who gets first pick after captains are chosen

Forgot to mention this in the big reply post, but this is ready to be pushed in the next update

posted 3 months ago
#137 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects
hannahYo i just lost elo for winning a pug

Will be fixed in next update

posted 3 months ago
#132 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects

(No update, just catching up on replies)

DivineATneeds option to pre-ready up for non-captains so u don't end up missing out b/c u left for a sec

Pre-ready has been in the works and should be ready in the next update.

JwI want to be able to wager my elo when I play a pug. There should be a button that says "x2" that would make me lose double the elo if I lose the pug, and gain double the elo if I win the pug

We don't want to turn a balancing mechanic into something other than balancing. There's already existing elo multipliers depending on number of pugs played as a class, which class you're playing, and your elo relative to the pug.

JwI'd like to be able to see my/other players' elo history, like a tab on your profile that shows a graph of where you started and how your elo has changed over time. Thanks!

This is planned to be included within a larger elo update in the future.

SOOOOOAPYMEISTERyou can sub people on the other team literally why

Throughout alpha, it was actually pretty difficult to get players to click the sub button in the first place. This might not be the case now with bug fixes and the relocated sub button though.

loafei think the map voting system would be a good way to introduce some map testing

We've discussed this internally previously and the route we would go is likely to have a separate map testing queue.

kawaplease fix the issue where after pugging, your alias on discord changes to a random person in the pug globally for a few minutes.

makes me extremely wary of the security of whatever is happening with user data, and im sick of having to explain what's happening to people who don't play the game

We actually do not change or touch your discord alias, nor does the app have permission to change a player's name globally across multiple servers unless you click 'Authorize' on a page like the following that says something like "Access to change your nickname" (which we don't do). We do not store any discord user data permanently except for your discord id. I have never seen this happen, so if/when it does, please DM me or document it somehow so that can get that figured out.

hannahPlease add chat

In the works for a future update, but we're still exploring ways that moderation could not possibly be an issue when it launches.

bearodactylhold on why do pugs not have a hard stop at 30 mins

We initially switched from a hard 30 minute config because players didn't seem satisfied with ties, but we are currently pending testing for a custom plugin (mentioned in #109) that would use midcap for tie breakage after time runs out in a standard 30min config.

bearodactylalso why does the discord channel for the pug go away a few minutes afterwards lol what if people want to just hang out after a pug
should make a general lounge voice chat or something (and having no chat for the website is pretty silly too)

There was an incident a few years ago that started a policy of not having any open channels for a long-term general hangout in the RGL discord. The current timeout is 8 minutes after a PUG ends, but can be extended to 15 minutes if that seems more reasonable.

bearodactylspamming this thread sry but plz make an option to only make noise when you need to ready up, even changing the annoying ass gottfried voice (which shouldn't be the default LOL) you still get spammed with unnecessary info like what team and class you got picked on, i muted it cuz it was too many alerts but then missed a game i added up for

other pug sites (tf2center, tf2lobby, pugchamp, pugme) all had this figured out, really don't understand why so many things are done differently / made overcomplicated

We will make it so that you can adjust volume per-alert in the next update.
Our goal isn't to replicate another website, and some things that seem simple may be either more complicated or not our current priority, Totally open to answering questions and discussing/clarifying though!

DivineATWeekly Monthly update when?

They should resume this coming Sunday, since the bulk of my moving is complete (see #102).

posted 3 months ago
#110 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects

Weekly update #5
- New customization/options menu
- Added log out button to options menu
- Soundpacks are now available if you don't love the soothing voice of Gilbert Gottfried
-- Also includes each of the 9 classes, vibraphone, and Thurston Waffles. More will be added over time.
- Desktop notifications are now available
- Being subbed out now included in progressive ban length
- Servers now have an extra safe guard against being chosen for a new PUG if it's being used in a current PUG
- Reconnected notification no longer shows when never disconnected

posted 3 months ago
#109 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects

Smaller weekly update #4
- Fixed auth login stuff
- Increased post-pug voice time to deletion from 5min to 8min
- Fixed premature channel deletion before moving all of blu to red's voice
- Successfully moved the 2 Dallas servers to Chicago

Due to feedback from the community about b4nny config taking too long to play, we are currently working on reverting it back to the scrim config and adding a rule to break ties through who caps mid at the 30min.

posted 4 months ago
#103 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects

Not going to quote everyone, but we have plans to customize your experience, including different voice packs (feel free to send me ideas). A chat system is also currently in the works that would allow for easy moderation and cross-chat between discord and site. I am also working on distinguishing 6s and HL more as well.

JwOnce the bugs are fixed and the site is ready for full release, I had an idea for how a way to make elo "matter," and make RGL pugs more unique as compared to pug groups in the past. It would go like this:

1. The site releases. Everyone who has played, say, main and above is allowed to play captained pugs.
2. Everyone's elo is reset to 1000 or something.
3. The race begins! The first 6 players to reach 2400 elo "win" Season 1 of RGL pugs, and each receive a small prize (maybe keys).
4. Once 6 players have won, everyone's elo is reset back to 1000, and the race to 2400 begins again in a few days.

I think this would provide a fun way to make elo interactive, and to make the grind of pugs have some overarching meaning.

We are likely going to implement an "XP" system separate from elo, similar to what faceit had iirc.

posted 4 months ago
#102 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects

Weekly update #3 is now live!
Note that updates may not always release on Sundays over the next month since I'm in the process of moving.

- Added active PUGs count to sidebar
- Elo adjustments now show as alerts
- Added score to active PUG cards
- Added 2 more dedicated servers to reach a total of 4
- Changed 6s cp config from scrim to "b4nny" config (now that we have enough servers where hogging one isn't a huge issue)
- Increased PUG auto-kill timeout from 60min to 100min to adjust for potential overtime
- Increased ready up time from 45sec to 60sec
- Increased player pick time from 45sec to 55sec
- Added check if user is discord verified during login
- Added discord voice channel called 'MOVE TO TEAM' that will automatically move you to your team voice channel upon joining
- Increased channel deletion delay from 1min to 5min or whenever all players leave
- Blu team will be moved to red team's voice channel after 30 seconds
- Fixed PUGs not showing on profiles for red players
- Fixed default member card avatars on 404s
- Fixed blu scores not properly updating
- Fixed lobby falsely saying there are enough players
- Fixed valid lobby not starting upon 2nd captain toggle
- Fixed previous map vote display persisting
- Fixed browser interaction popup not showing
- Adjusted class breakdown grid padding on profile
- Refined pug baiting criteria
- Changed authentication session system (please let me know if this breaks anything for you)
- Allowed donovin to captain

posted 4 months ago
#90 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects

The weekly update #2 - The "ARE YOU SURE?" update - is live!
(Apologies for the delayed weekly update, as I wanted to make sure everything was good to go instead of rushing anything.)

- Moved substitute player button from player card menu to a dedicated button
- Added required reason for substitution
- Reverted minimum sub votes to 3 to sub a player
- Added sub status to player card
- Added PUG bait warning when removing from class/captain in Ready-Up stage
-- If a PUG does not start, any players that leave after readying will be restricted from captain or banned. These get progressively longer.
- Added 2nd dedicated server, currently adding 3rd as well

- Captains should now properly be assigned to the top 2 elo players
- Alert sounds should now properly play provided page interaction
- Elos should now properly update if you have no elo upon login
- Servers should now properly upload to

Thank you once again to everyone that has been testing and providing feedback!

posted 4 months ago
#86 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects
JuustinThere definitely needs to be separate dedicated servers for the HL and 6s Queue soon -- 1 server for both at queues at least.

I think with the ramp up and promotion of RGL PUGs into beta, a rush of players have flooded in, especially for HL again. This had lead to HL PUGs taking over the 1 dedicated server at times where 6s players want to queue up.

There was enough for the 6s captain queue today -- after waiting half and hour for the HL open pug to end -- and it look like it was about to happen until the HL Open PUG took the server instantly. This basically killed the 6s captain queue and much them moved to an in-house pug server. Nothing wrong with that, but if there's a need for testing, wouldn't you want to get feedback on both formats?

Obviously, there's been a search to find a decent server provider that works for the website, so I can't fault you guys testing with 1 server most of the time. Hope we can get more servers soon....

You're definitely right that we need to add more servers. Thankfully I think we've found a good candidate for a server host after the spree of unreliable ones (major nationwide server outages tonight didn't help with this). I'll likely be adding more from them this week after confirming with those who played on them.

posted 4 months ago
#84 RGL PUGs Public Alpha in Projects

The #1 weekly beta update is now live!
- Captains are now decided by top two elos
- Lobbies now accurately display that it's waiting for 2 captains, not more players
- Made elo a bit more visible on readied players
- Switching classes/teams is now blocked in HL pugs. We are still internally deciding off-class rules/guidelines for 6s.
- Fixed some more site crashes
From previous updates this week:
- Fixed bug that caused servers to stutter
- Fixed minimum captain elo acting as a maximum
- Fixed servers not properly being marked as used
- Fixed killed pugs affecting elos. This previously gave some users negative elo when the pug was not played.
- Increased minimum elo for captained pugs

We also now have a dedicated Chicago PUG server!

Thank you to everyone that has tested beta so far, please continue reporting any bugs/feedback!

posted 4 months ago
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