my bad.

middie say what

When I played it everyone but me was creeped out by and constantly talking about the lighting. I didn't notice it but I'm different like dat

yea

stop the count

580 elo

9v9 clarse limit 1

I acknowledge it is just my personal experience but majority of people I have had direct talks with about it don't like the plugins. I'm not gonna collect a survey to make a forum post on team fortress dot tv :p

Ok I may have exaggerated here, the bottom line is that I do not think the Scout/Soldier matchup before the plugin was imbalanced. Like I said, if you catch a timing or have a good bomb it is entirely possible to be the one killing the Scout rather than the other way around, and this plugin only improves the chance of that happening. If anything I think it is imbalanced now and that is because a poor Soldier can do the laziest "me hulk me smash" bomb and get far more value than they otherwise would without the plugin. That is all I am arguing.

Your point about this not being the intention of the plugin is 100% true but I don't see what that means if it has unintended consequences that are damaging the game. I do not like fighting vs Soldiers who just fly into my face like a moron and have a higher chance of getting some value when before they would die for 150 dmg.

100% this. I know this may seem like me running because I've been pwned but I was always mostly in this camp. The only validity I saw was that it would be interesting to playtest the plugins for an extended period of time. We've now done that and not everyone is sold 100%, to say the least. I would say the best thing to do is keep coming up with and implementing quality of life plugins and stop when the plugins become too different from the core game.

Wasn't the plugin made and then implemented because some people thought that the game without a plugin was boring? With all due respect, I don't think anything more than theory-crafting was put into the concept and implementing of the plugins either, so I don't see why it's not valid to counter in kind :P

That said, avoiding all theory crafting and going off what I experienced this season, I will say I played against Soldiers doing stupid shit ,and if not fully getting away with it, being rewarded more so for a stupid play than they otherwise would be. It still benefits better Soldiers more than the bad ones, as does any 'busted' mechanic but like I said in my original post the damage exchange is quite frankly fucking stupid lol. It already was borderline valid to get a good timing on a bomb and attempt to kill enemy Scouts, especially if your Demo tags them, now it is insanely easy to do even to the best of Scouts and without Demo support. It all comes down to a value judgment - because of 10 years of playing this game and expecting the Soldier class to take high self damage when he is near me, I would think a player who willingly plays into this situation is "not very good", and without plugins I would be right cause he'd die for a bunch of dmg and that's about it. With this plugin, he can get a kill/bunch of dmg and jump out at the same time. Add onto this sil's point about isolating the competitive part of the game from the rest and I really do not see the value that these specific plugins have.

Considering there is a whole season of gameplay and that a lot of people did not like the plugins, I would say it is safe to say there is no point in putting them in again in their current state. Perhaps I'm out of touch though and everyone thinks both plugins were poggers.

u r a pyro main

i invented this

2020 been the year of personal emotional devastation i guess. RIP ALL CAPS ON DA MAN NAME

Only gonna make some points that lolguy hasn't already made since that post covers most things already. Also am Euro so just thinking about product here really, tho I don't see why some things can't apply as game/koth principles anyway.

1) When you're exchanging into enemy team that has point, Scout+Soldier exchange is really nice for covering a lot of ground, getting the force out with consistency and then getting your Soldier behind the enemy team. If they chase your pocket, occupy as much ground as possible and depending on how good damage exchange is for you, you can chase deep to help your pocket. Worst case you have secured the point and lost your pocket. If they ignore your pocket you take a fight but with the benefit of a Soldier behind who can destroy them from height / with a bomb.

2) I would say running Spy is gonna be worse than almost any other class you could run in its place. Another important point is that specifically to break Product forward hold you should never be sniping out - the best case scenario is the Demo at cliff is spotting for info and your Sniper hits his first shot on him and you can bust out cliff. I see a lot of teams attempt to snipe out of main to break this forward and have never seen it work either :-/

Nothing to add for 3 and I know nothing about 4 :-(

that's not a team unless you're making it

edit: or a doctor whos

malcom tucker faint gameing