Aad helped me with the settings because I have brain damage, everyone should be able to take the survey now..
If you have any questions my discord dm's/steam dm's are always open!
RGL Sixes Season 13 Pre-Season Survey
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
[h][url=https://rgl.gg/Players/My/Survey.aspx?r=40&s=84]Survey can be filled out here[/url][/h]
[h][b] Aad helped me with the settings because I have brain damage, everyone should be able to take the survey now..[/b][/h]
[h][b]If you have any questions my discord dm's/steam dm's are always open![/b][/h]
[h][b] Aad helped me with the settings because I have brain damage, everyone should be able to take the survey now..[/b][/h]
[h][b]If you have any questions my discord dm's/steam dm's are always open![/b][/h]
brodywhat is a rotating map pool
The current map pool right now could be seen as a very "static" map pool where it's been the same combination of maps in a varying order for a while with the exception of a couple alternative maps.
A rotating map pool would approach this "static" map pool by making it more dynamic by grabbing a set of maps that change periodically throughout the season or multiple season(s) if allowed.
For example, the regular season consists of eight weeks, with a three/four-week playoffs. If we were to commit to a rotating map pool (after explaining it to people again too) It'd look something like
Pre-Season:
- Week -1: Announce initial map pool (Maps A,B,C,D)
- Week 0: People scrim the maps at hand/practice on the initial map pool.
Regular Season:
- Weeks 1-4:
- Map Pool: A, B, C, D
- Matches occur on these maps.
- _____________
- Week 4:
- Announce upcoming rotation for Week 5
- Weeks 5-8:
- Map Pool: B, C, E, F (Maps A,D are rotated out)
- Matches occur on these new maps.
Playoffs:
- Weeks 9-12:
- Map Pool for Playoffs: B, C, E, F, G
- Introducing a new map (G) to keep the game interesting but still maintaining some sort of continuity.
Post-Season
Week 13
Gather feedback on map pools and rotation.
Start planning for next season
The example I'm providing only has one rotation due to the seasonal length. Playoffs gets expanded a little more but leans on the fact that maps were rotated during the latter part of the regular season to help with fairness & balance.
There are a good assortment of benefits with a rotating map pool carried by some drawbacks if something like such gain traction.
[quote=brody]what is a rotating map pool[/quote]
The current map pool right now could be seen as a very "static" map pool where it's been the same combination of maps in a varying order for a while with the exception of a couple [b]alternative maps[/b].
A rotating map pool would approach this "static" map pool by making it more dynamic by grabbing a set of maps that change periodically throughout the season or multiple season(s) if allowed.
For example, the regular season consists of eight weeks, with a three/four-week playoffs. If we were to commit to a rotating map pool (after explaining it to people again too) It'd look something like
[h][b]Pre-Season:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Week -1: Announce initial map pool (Maps A,B,C,D)[/b]
[*] [b]Week 0: People scrim the maps at hand/practice on the initial map pool.[/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Regular Season:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 1-4:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool: A, B, C, D[/b]
[*] [b]Matches occur on these maps.[/b]
[/list]
[list]
_____________
[*] [b]Week 4:[/b]
[*] [b][b][/b][/b][b]Announce upcoming rotation for Week 5[/b]
[/list]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 5-8:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool: B, C, E, F (Maps A,D are rotated out)[/b]
[*] [b]Matches occur on these new maps.[/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Playoffs:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 9-12:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool for Playoffs: B, C, E, F, G[/b]
[*] [b]Introducing a new map (G) to keep the game interesting but still maintaining some sort of[i] continuity.[/i][/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Post-Season[/b][/h]
[b]Week 13[/b]
[b]Gather feedback on map pools and rotation.
Start planning for next season[/b]
The example I'm providing only has one rotation due to the seasonal length. Playoffs gets expanded a little more but leans on the fact that maps were rotated during the latter part of the regular season to help with fairness & balance.
There are a good assortment of benefits with a rotating map pool carried by some drawbacks if something like such gain traction.
The current map pool right now could be seen as a very "static" map pool where it's been the same combination of maps in a varying order for a while with the exception of a couple [b]alternative maps[/b].
A rotating map pool would approach this "static" map pool by making it more dynamic by grabbing a set of maps that change periodically throughout the season or multiple season(s) if allowed.
For example, the regular season consists of eight weeks, with a three/four-week playoffs. If we were to commit to a rotating map pool (after explaining it to people again too) It'd look something like
[h][b]Pre-Season:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Week -1: Announce initial map pool (Maps A,B,C,D)[/b]
[*] [b]Week 0: People scrim the maps at hand/practice on the initial map pool.[/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Regular Season:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 1-4:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool: A, B, C, D[/b]
[*] [b]Matches occur on these maps.[/b]
[/list]
[list]
_____________
[*] [b]Week 4:[/b]
[*] [b][b][/b][/b][b]Announce upcoming rotation for Week 5[/b]
[/list]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 5-8:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool: B, C, E, F (Maps A,D are rotated out)[/b]
[*] [b]Matches occur on these new maps.[/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Playoffs:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 9-12:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool for Playoffs: B, C, E, F, G[/b]
[*] [b]Introducing a new map (G) to keep the game interesting but still maintaining some sort of[i] continuity.[/i][/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Post-Season[/b][/h]
[b]Week 13[/b]
[b]Gather feedback on map pools and rotation.
Start planning for next season[/b]
The example I'm providing only has one rotation due to the seasonal length. Playoffs gets expanded a little more but leans on the fact that maps were rotated during the latter part of the regular season to help with fairness & balance.
There are a good assortment of benefits with a rotating map pool carried by some drawbacks if something like such gain traction.
idk man u claim it's more dynamic but now you just scrim maps B and C for 8 weeks + playoffs
also what playoff team would wanna play G unless it's a staple like process
idk man u claim it's more dynamic but now you just scrim maps B and C for 8 weeks + playoffs
also what playoff team would wanna play G unless it's a staple like process
also what playoff team would wanna play G unless it's a staple like process
Not suggesting RGL try it but another interesting idea is having 3 maps per week and do pick/ban of those 3 random maps. Have it change weekly with no repeats back-to-back. Kinda weird, ik.
Not suggesting RGL try it but another interesting idea is having 3 maps per week and do pick/ban of those 3 random maps. Have it change weekly with no repeats back-to-back. Kinda weird, ik.
Crit_Noobalso what playoff team would wanna play G unless it's a staple like process
yeah im not a fan of this wildcard aspect. this is the thing that currently holds all teams in pick/ban divisions back from having more diverse map picks in matches, which is being unable (usually by personal choice) to practice a map for the whole season. far far FAR too often teams dont wanna scrim koth, or like granary or sultry early in preseason or weeks 1-2 cuz they dont have a full roster yet, or are feeling the team out still. dont wanna play weeks 2-4 cuz they wanna focus on other maps first, dont wanna play weeks 5-8 because they're behind on that map compared to the rest of the teams in the division and find it more worthwhile to refine maps they're already decent at, and then in playoffs you can just ban the map outright if u still havent played it at all (this would be like map G in the jemond outline where yeaaaa you COULD pick it but do you really want to take that risk?)
this mentality is a TRAP that plagues this game so hard dating back to the pick/ban season introduction in ESEA season 28, 5 summers ago now. i strongly urge players in pick/ban divs to diversify scrim maps so much sooner in the season or even in preseason because it pays dividends for your team later on.
TLDR play more maps earlier in the season or even pre season with your tryouts please god i beg that shit pays off SO much. personal anecdote below in the spoiler if u care to read it im not gonna post a whole gigantic block of text nobodys gonna read that shit
Show Content
for a personal anecdote: in season 9 adv with the covenant our largest strength was our willingness to play varied maps. it gave us more to think about in playoffs when picking maps other than "well we arent comfortable on it so ://// ban it lol". this was a team with a roster shakeup 3 weeks into the season (picking me up on roamer, moving catface to pocket). we all love to talk about how important soldier synergy is when talking about a team's success, so you'd think me having to adjust to this team's current playstyle, gaining synergy with dunker on the flank who played much differently than how i played at the time, as well as building up soldier things with catface, who also needs to understand his role better on pocket, and then losing to AG in regular season and having to UPHEAVE our playstyle in order to counter them to beat them next time, with ALL of that we'd stick to playing process/sunshine/snakewater/gullywash + another less niche map in order to refine ourselves right? no. we tried to play as many maps as we could and in my opinion is part of the reason we were able to win advanced that season. please learn from our example thank u
[quote=Crit_Noob]also what playoff team would wanna play G unless it's a staple like process[/quote]
yeah im not a fan of this wildcard aspect. this is the thing that currently holds all teams in pick/ban divisions back from having more diverse map picks in matches, which is being unable (usually by personal choice) to practice a map for the whole season. far far FAR too often teams dont wanna scrim koth, or like granary or sultry early in preseason or weeks 1-2 cuz they dont have a full roster yet, or are feeling the team out still. dont wanna play weeks 2-4 cuz they wanna focus on other maps first, dont wanna play weeks 5-8 because they're behind on that map compared to the rest of the teams in the division and find it more worthwhile to refine maps they're already decent at, and then in playoffs you can just ban the map outright if u still havent played it at all (this would be like map G in the jemond outline where yeaaaa you COULD pick it but do you really want to take that risk?)
this mentality is a [u][b]TRAP[/b][/u] that plagues this game so hard dating back to the pick/ban season introduction in ESEA season 28, 5 summers ago now. i strongly urge players in pick/ban divs to diversify scrim maps so much sooner in the season or even in preseason because it pays dividends for your team later on.
TLDR play more maps earlier in the season or even pre season with your tryouts please god i beg that shit pays off SO much. personal anecdote below in the spoiler if u care to read it im not gonna post a whole gigantic block of text nobodys gonna read that shit
[spoiler]for a personal anecdote: in season 9 adv with the covenant our largest strength was our willingness to play varied maps. it gave us more to think about in playoffs when picking maps other than "well we arent comfortable on it so ://// ban it lol". this was a team with a roster shakeup 3 weeks into the season (picking me up on roamer, moving catface to pocket). we all love to talk about how important soldier synergy is when talking about a team's success, so you'd think me having to adjust to this team's current playstyle, gaining synergy with dunker on the flank who played much differently than how i played at the time, as well as building up soldier things with catface, who also needs to understand his role better on pocket, and then losing to AG in regular season and having to UPHEAVE our playstyle in order to counter them to beat them next time, with ALL of that we'd stick to playing process/sunshine/snakewater/gullywash + another less niche map in order to refine ourselves right? no. we tried to play as many maps as we could and in my opinion is part of the reason we were able to win advanced that season. please learn from our example thank u
[/spoiler]
yeah im not a fan of this wildcard aspect. this is the thing that currently holds all teams in pick/ban divisions back from having more diverse map picks in matches, which is being unable (usually by personal choice) to practice a map for the whole season. far far FAR too often teams dont wanna scrim koth, or like granary or sultry early in preseason or weeks 1-2 cuz they dont have a full roster yet, or are feeling the team out still. dont wanna play weeks 2-4 cuz they wanna focus on other maps first, dont wanna play weeks 5-8 because they're behind on that map compared to the rest of the teams in the division and find it more worthwhile to refine maps they're already decent at, and then in playoffs you can just ban the map outright if u still havent played it at all (this would be like map G in the jemond outline where yeaaaa you COULD pick it but do you really want to take that risk?)
this mentality is a [u][b]TRAP[/b][/u] that plagues this game so hard dating back to the pick/ban season introduction in ESEA season 28, 5 summers ago now. i strongly urge players in pick/ban divs to diversify scrim maps so much sooner in the season or even in preseason because it pays dividends for your team later on.
TLDR play more maps earlier in the season or even pre season with your tryouts please god i beg that shit pays off SO much. personal anecdote below in the spoiler if u care to read it im not gonna post a whole gigantic block of text nobodys gonna read that shit
[spoiler]for a personal anecdote: in season 9 adv with the covenant our largest strength was our willingness to play varied maps. it gave us more to think about in playoffs when picking maps other than "well we arent comfortable on it so ://// ban it lol". this was a team with a roster shakeup 3 weeks into the season (picking me up on roamer, moving catface to pocket). we all love to talk about how important soldier synergy is when talking about a team's success, so you'd think me having to adjust to this team's current playstyle, gaining synergy with dunker on the flank who played much differently than how i played at the time, as well as building up soldier things with catface, who also needs to understand his role better on pocket, and then losing to AG in regular season and having to UPHEAVE our playstyle in order to counter them to beat them next time, with ALL of that we'd stick to playing process/sunshine/snakewater/gullywash + another less niche map in order to refine ourselves right? no. we tried to play as many maps as we could and in my opinion is part of the reason we were able to win advanced that season. please learn from our example thank u
[/spoiler]
also just for personal opinion i think the season 12 invite map pool was very fun and enjoyable. i'm sick of snakewater at this point and if i had to pick a map to remove for a season it would definitely be that lol. despite snakewater objectively being a very well designed map, but again, it has ended up as a personal choice for my teams the past 2 seasons to push "niche" maps to the side in order to refine the classics, only for playoffs s11 or the group stage last season to roll around with bo3's and then suddenly uh-oh we can only ban 1 map before they get to pick lets cross our fingers that they dont pick one of the other 2 maps that we havent touched all season.
the "obvious" solution to this would be 1 weekly map but that just reintroduces a bunch of cringery about having to play x team on y map and ohhh if we got to play them on z map instead we wouldve won and had a better seed. anyways im down for anything that could possibly force people to stop being babies about playing koth/"niche" 5cp maps early into the season, but i dont think introducing a map JUST for playoffs is the answer
also just for personal opinion i think the season 12 invite map pool was very fun and enjoyable. i'm sick of snakewater at this point and if i had to pick a map to remove for a season it would definitely be that lol. despite snakewater objectively being a very well designed map, but again, it has ended up as a personal choice for my teams the past 2 seasons to push "niche" maps to the side in order to refine the classics, only for playoffs s11 or the group stage last season to roll around with bo3's and then suddenly uh-oh we can only ban 1 map before they get to pick lets cross our fingers that they dont pick one of the other 2 maps that we havent touched all season.
the "obvious" solution to this would be 1 weekly map but that just reintroduces a bunch of cringery about having to play x team on y map and ohhh if we got to play them on z map instead we wouldve won and had a better seed. anyways im down for anything that could possibly force people to stop being babies about playing koth/"niche" 5cp maps early into the season, but i dont think introducing a map JUST for playoffs is the answer
the "obvious" solution to this would be 1 weekly map but that just reintroduces a bunch of cringery about having to play x team on y map and ohhh if we got to play them on z map instead we wouldve won and had a better seed. anyways im down for anything that could possibly force people to stop being babies about playing koth/"niche" 5cp maps early into the season, but i dont think introducing a map JUST for playoffs is the answer
so theres just fewer maps and you play 2 of them twice and also you dont get to know what 1/3 of the pool is until halfway thru the season? just seems a little overly complicated, and i cant rly figure out what problem its supposed to solve for non pick/ban divs
we in 2023 have a really strong pool of like 10-11 good maps to build an 8-map rotation from. why cut nearly half of them out just so we can play sunshine and snakewater twice a season?
so theres just fewer maps and you play 2 of them twice and also you dont get to know what 1/3 of the pool is until halfway thru the season? just seems a little overly complicated, and i cant rly figure out what problem its supposed to solve for non pick/ban divs
we in 2023 have a really strong pool of like 10-11 good maps to build an 8-map rotation from. why cut nearly half of them out just so we can play sunshine and snakewater twice a season?
we in 2023 have a really strong pool of like 10-11 good maps to build an 8-map rotation from. why cut nearly half of them out just so we can play sunshine and snakewater twice a season?
jemondbrodywhat is a rotating map pool
The current map pool right now could be seen as a very "static" map pool where it's been the same combination of maps in a varying order for a while with the exception of a couple alternative maps.
A rotating map pool would approach this "static" map pool by making it more dynamic by grabbing a set of maps that change periodically throughout the season or multiple season(s) if allowed.
For example, the regular season consists of eight weeks, with a three/four-week playoffs. If we were to commit to a rotating map pool (after explaining it to people again too) It'd look something like
Pre-Season:
Regular Season:
- Week -1: Announce initial map pool (Maps A,B,C,D)
- Week 0: People scrim the maps at hand/practice on the initial map pool.
- Weeks 1-4:
- Map Pool: A, B, C, D
- Matches occur on these maps.
_____________
- Week 4:
- Announce upcoming rotation for Week 5
- Weeks 5-8:
- Map Pool: B, C, E, F (Maps A,D are rotated out)
- Matches occur on these new maps.
Playoffs:
- Weeks 9-12:
- Map Pool for Playoffs: B, C, E, F, G
- Introducing a new map (G) to keep the game interesting but still maintaining some sort of continuity.
Post-Season
Week 13
Gather feedback on map pools and rotation.
Start planning for next season
The example I'm providing only has one rotation due to the seasonal length. Playoffs gets expanded a little more but leans on the fact that maps were rotated during the latter part of the regular season to help with fairness & balance.
There are a good assortment of benefits with a rotating map pool carried by some drawbacks if something like such gain traction.
I like this idea actually. Gives teams who are bad on certain maps a chance instead of people just skill diffing them on that map.
[quote=jemond][quote=brody]what is a rotating map pool[/quote]
The current map pool right now could be seen as a very "static" map pool where it's been the same combination of maps in a varying order for a while with the exception of a couple [b]alternative maps[/b].
A rotating map pool would approach this "static" map pool by making it more dynamic by grabbing a set of maps that change periodically throughout the season or multiple season(s) if allowed.
For example, the regular season consists of eight weeks, with a three/four-week playoffs. If we were to commit to a rotating map pool (after explaining it to people again too) It'd look something like
[h][b]Pre-Season:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Week -1: Announce initial map pool (Maps A,B,C,D)[/b]
[*] [b]Week 0: People scrim the maps at hand/practice on the initial map pool.[/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Regular Season:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 1-4:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool: A, B, C, D[/b]
[*] [b]Matches occur on these maps.[/b]
[/list]
[list]
_____________
[*] [b]Week 4:[/b]
[*] [b][b][/b][/b][b]Announce upcoming rotation for Week 5[/b]
[/list]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 5-8:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool: B, C, E, F (Maps A,D are rotated out)[/b]
[*] [b]Matches occur on these new maps.[/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Playoffs:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 9-12:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool for Playoffs: B, C, E, F, G[/b]
[*] [b]Introducing a new map (G) to keep the game interesting but still maintaining some sort of[i] continuity.[/i][/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Post-Season[/b][/h]
[b]Week 13[/b]
[b]Gather feedback on map pools and rotation.
Start planning for next season[/b]
The example I'm providing only has one rotation due to the seasonal length. Playoffs gets expanded a little more but leans on the fact that maps were rotated during the latter part of the regular season to help with fairness & balance.
There are a good assortment of benefits with a rotating map pool carried by some drawbacks if something like such gain traction.[/quote]
I like this idea actually. Gives teams who are bad on certain maps a chance instead of people just skill diffing them on that map.
The current map pool right now could be seen as a very "static" map pool where it's been the same combination of maps in a varying order for a while with the exception of a couple [b]alternative maps[/b].
A rotating map pool would approach this "static" map pool by making it more dynamic by grabbing a set of maps that change periodically throughout the season or multiple season(s) if allowed.
For example, the regular season consists of eight weeks, with a three/four-week playoffs. If we were to commit to a rotating map pool (after explaining it to people again too) It'd look something like
[h][b]Pre-Season:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Week -1: Announce initial map pool (Maps A,B,C,D)[/b]
[*] [b]Week 0: People scrim the maps at hand/practice on the initial map pool.[/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Regular Season:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 1-4:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool: A, B, C, D[/b]
[*] [b]Matches occur on these maps.[/b]
[/list]
[list]
_____________
[*] [b]Week 4:[/b]
[*] [b][b][/b][/b][b]Announce upcoming rotation for Week 5[/b]
[/list]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 5-8:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool: B, C, E, F (Maps A,D are rotated out)[/b]
[*] [b]Matches occur on these new maps.[/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Playoffs:[/b][/h]
[list]
[*] [b]Weeks 9-12:[/b]
[*] [b]Map Pool for Playoffs: B, C, E, F, G[/b]
[*] [b]Introducing a new map (G) to keep the game interesting but still maintaining some sort of[i] continuity.[/i][/b]
[/list]
[h][b]Post-Season[/b][/h]
[b]Week 13[/b]
[b]Gather feedback on map pools and rotation.
Start planning for next season[/b]
The example I'm providing only has one rotation due to the seasonal length. Playoffs gets expanded a little more but leans on the fact that maps were rotated during the latter part of the regular season to help with fairness & balance.
There are a good assortment of benefits with a rotating map pool carried by some drawbacks if something like such gain traction.[/quote]
I like this idea actually. Gives teams who are bad on certain maps a chance instead of people just skill diffing them on that map.
idk the idea seems nifty for regular season, but playing a whole season to end up in playoffs with none of your good maps seems terrible and takes away the aspect of the best team winning. i agree with GJ3 about having a varied map pool being super important, the main reason there isn't diversity is because teams don't want to win enough where they start practicing on more than the main pug maps. at least with the new maps and some of the newer teams a lot of the newer maps see play and people end up enjoying the maps rather than just saying new maps blow (ex. bagel, sultry, and clearcut). overall, i wouldn't be against trying it for regular season for maybe some lower divs, but invite teams should be trying to play more maps to expand their map pool to give themselves the best shot against the best teams.
TLDR: Interesting idea, PLEASE DON'T DO FOR PLAYOFFS. People should be trying to play more maps to give themselves a better shot at winning. Also fuck metalworks and snakewater, boring ass maps. replace one of those with some koth map or new map, after some testing/new map cup have a talk with the invite peeps to decide if we are only testing new maps with adv/invite teams at first.
idk the idea seems nifty for regular season, but playing a whole season to end up in playoffs with none of your good maps seems terrible and takes away the aspect of the best team winning. i agree with GJ3 about having a varied map pool being super important, the main reason there isn't diversity is because teams don't want to win enough where they start practicing on more than the main pug maps. at least with the new maps and some of the newer teams a lot of the newer maps see play and people end up enjoying the maps rather than just saying new maps blow (ex. bagel, sultry, and clearcut). overall, i wouldn't be against trying it for regular season for maybe some lower divs, but invite teams should be trying to play more maps to expand their map pool to give themselves the best shot against the best teams.
TLDR: Interesting idea, PLEASE DON'T DO FOR PLAYOFFS. People should be trying to play more maps to give themselves a better shot at winning. Also fuck metalworks and snakewater, boring ass maps. replace one of those with some koth map or new map, after some testing/new map cup have a talk with the invite peeps to decide if we are only testing new maps with adv/invite teams at first.
TLDR: Interesting idea, PLEASE DON'T DO FOR PLAYOFFS. People should be trying to play more maps to give themselves a better shot at winning. Also fuck metalworks and snakewater, boring ass maps. replace one of those with some koth map or new map, after some testing/new map cup have a talk with the invite peeps to decide if we are only testing new maps with adv/invite teams at first.
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