Any for-profit league is going to be dickish and exploitative. ETF2L/UGC are better choices.

If you're talking about ETF2L, prepare for the witch-hunts for cheaters.

@marmadukeGRYLLS, I'd love to hear more about this - I've worked for CEVO since 2004 and can say with confidence that we've never suspended someone for cheating, that we weren't 100% confident was in fact cheating. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you aren't comfortable talking about this on a public forum, but I think you may be misinformed, and I'd love to set the record straight and/or look into any actual facts you have about these "corrupt admins".

As for CEVO TF2, we're more than happy to welcome new teams that are willing to come over and give our league a chance. We've had trouble convincing teams to sign up over the past 3 seasons for a variety of reasons, even though as far as I know we are the only league giving away cash + hardware prizes, with an anti-cheat, and reliable (full-time) staff without charging anyone a penny.

CEVO has been supporting competitive TF2 for a long time now, and we don't plan to stop any time soon. In some of our games with larger participation we have multiple skill divisions, larger prize pools, and live match broadcasting (matches of the week). There's only one reason that CEVO TF2 doesn't have these things, and that has to do with the number of teams that sign up each season.

Thanks,

CEVO|Pipher
General Manager
CEVO.com

It is time, CEVO S4

Pipher, I think one of the biggest issues that TF2 players had to deal with was the fact the almost zero admins, (back in the day of like season 1+2) didn't even play TF2, if I remember correctly.

PS- Is anyone else really annoyed that sooo many people on the ESEA's forum are defending him so much. What the hell would the reason be to do this? I really don't understand.

None of our full-time staff actually play any games competitively any more, but we're always open to bringing on volunteer staff (that do play) to help us run the events. At this point, we only have 7 active teams in Season 3, so we haven't been able to justify bringing a volunteer on to help us manage such a small event. If we were to have an influx of teams register in Season 4, it would certainly be one of our top priorities to get an experienced TF2 player to join our volunteer staff.

Now if people came over to your league would you make more divisions...And if you did what would be the general layout of it be and how many teams would have to sign up generally. (sorry if this is a stupid question)

I'm curious to how a league can keep running with a prizepool and no fees without going bankrupt? Do you have any sweet sponsorship deals? Not trying to attack in anyway, just curious.

I think CEVO is the best option atm to ESEA (other than our beloved community run ETF2L) but I think if you keep contact with our userbase and community leaders in this transition period you might secure hundreds of potential players for your league. So all I'm saying is that if there's a chance to take the tf2 (NA) market, it is now. Otherwise someone else will step up to the job.

I myself think we would be better off supported by a community run league and not a for profit business, but you never know and I think your presence on the forums or your interaction with the community in these next couple of months could decide a lot.

Pipher has stated in a previous thread in the begining of CEVO S3 that they would be interested in opening more divisions (ie: IM, INVITE) depending on the number of sign ups. Obviously they can't have 3 divisions with 7 active teams.

Not a stupid question, but we usually wait until we have about 48 fully "ready" teams in our lowest skill division before we can justify opening up a second skill tier. With the rate at which teams drop from the league mid-season starting with any less really jeopardizes the integrity of the event.

Ya if you guys made more then one division my team would play.

Good question! At this time we don't actually make any money off of CEVO.com (the league), we subsidize our events with sponsorships, and the proceeds from our B2B side of the company (eSports event management solutions) because we love competitive gaming. That's not to say we won't eventually make any $$$ from the league, but for now it's not the case.

Oh, the other thing that I remember getting pissed off about was when I rang for Wirex team during playoffs against (I think crack clan, before I joined) and explained to the head admin that he was using a wallhack during that match while playing Medic. I even gave a mumble recording of him saying that he was using a wallhack so just trust me, I know what is going to happen. The sad thing was I never even got a response from anyone.

I am not trying to shit on the league, there is just a few people that are still around now.

Oh, and lastly, the client used to cause huge ping spikes. It could be fixed now.

This concerns me a little. I'm all for making profit from the league, it's only logical being a business and all, but how is this going to affect us as a community once you start making $$$? Are we gonna have to pay league fees? Are we gonna have to sit through ads when checking in for a match? or something else that directly or indirectly affects us. Personally I'd be fine with ads or fees or whatever it could be as long as the league is good, but I think it would be beneficial for everyone if this is clear and known before we decide to move into a league that just might turn into another flavor of ESEA in time.

Another thing that worries me is having dedicated TF2 admins. I'd say a big reason why killing and kalkin are(were) respected as esea admins is(was) because they have been competitive players, they understand the game, they understand our needs, and from that perspective we can sort of trust that they're making (or at least tried to make) the best decisions for the good of the game. In that regard, I also think that for this purpose a payed admin is needed, as common sense dictates me that a volunteer won't put in the effort to face and deal with major problems in the name of a corporation that is making profit out of his work.

Besides these particular concerns, I believe CEVO is the league we should go to if we're to ditch ESEA forever, since they have proven to have interest in reaching to our community and have kept the tf2 league running even after S1 went from 100 teams to about 20 in a matter of weeks and there are very few teams playing in S2.

I personally don't care either way for lan. I don't think it's mandatory, but it is our Super Bowl, because it's the best of the best playing. I also agree with Alleal, that people chose Esea because it made people who were hardcore enough to pay money play others that were serious as well. I want to be challenged and I know if money is on the line (even a shit amount) that people will try their best which test my skills the most. Idk, I'll go wherever the competition is, and I think most people will too in the end. Money is just one way to keep the less hardcore away. But nobody is getting rich on this game. It's just fun. Some people play to trade, have fun, others to see how good they are.

So Pipher, say you get enough teams to sign up to warrant the creation of 3 separate divisions, would you respect their rank in ESEA S15, so that ESEA-I teams would be able to play in CEVO-P and teams that made playoffs in ESEA-O would be eligible for CEVO-IM? Also, please make it so match stats are auto uploaded to the website.

What do you guys think is the over/under payout for me getting banned for this completely true post

yeah you're gonna get iced

AH i remember now i think. pretty sure there was blatant cheaters that took a while to get banned and an admin was on the roster and defending them or something. this was like ~7 years ago so im really foggy on the memory, could be totally wrong/misremembering.

not saying cevo is bad or we shouldnt consider moving, it was more a "lets really think this out and make sure its the best move to go to X league" type deal. you should contact some of the invite captains and talk with them and see what you can work out for an invite league in cevo, see if it can persuade the top talent to make the move.

As someone who works in the food industry, I'd like to try my hand at this particular analogy.

This whole scenario is like a Vegetarian finding out that the restaurant they have been regularly going to for the past 3 years uses Pork Lard to cook those delicious pinto beans they eat every visit. Upset about discovering they've been eating Meat the whole time, the customer tells the owner that while they'd like to continue their patronage of the restaurant, they are concerned that they were fed meat products without any indication that was the case. The reasonable Vegetarians, while upset, would like the management to clearly label what products contain meat and what products don't, so they can continue to eat at the restaurant. The owner gives them a refund on the pinto beans and tells them never to come back to their restaurant.

This is how restaurants go out of business.

so did St. Patrick AKA Recyclops

Welp, I have a 10 year ban too from asking real questions and explaining what is going on with the TF2 community.

http://play.esea.net/users/361346

damn, I thought that was a good analogy :/

I'm yeppers now

Does that mean you're just banned from posting on ESEA? Or are you not allowed to play in ESEA anymore either?

Both actually, but since I have a VPN, I've been making accounts to explain how much BS the ban was. I never directly said "fuck esea." I only wanted some answers and explained what is going on within the TF2 community.

The only feature that other leagues do not have(AFAIK) when compared to ESEA is the automatic stats and stv server/stvdemo/povdemo systems. I think if we move leagues we should push for similar systems, as those systems helped attribute to how competitive the teams in ESEA are.

It's one of my top reasons why I'm in ESEA and not UGC 6s.

My premium was set to renew in 3 days, I decided I didn't want to give them any more money and went ahead and cancelled it today. The rest of my team did the same so we won't be playing any of the rest of our matches this season, and I don't plan on playing in ESEA in future seasons either.

A pay to play cevo division would attract a lot of attention I think. Free to play is just kinda...eh "I'll maybe try put a team together, who cares though." I'd donate $1000 to the prize pot of a pay to play cevo league.

.

Fuck this, I sent a message to lkplane that we would send a class action lawsuit on Ohio too if he did not remove the ban. I don't think that he will drop this shit, so I am calling in a shit ton of favors to sue the fuck out ESEA. These are high level lawyers in the political community that are going to do a class action lawsuit in Ohio, if anyone wants to be involved, please let us know.