twenty2020
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Signed Up July 24, 2014
Last Posted February 22, 2017 at 5:18 PM
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#65 Scream to Titan in CS2 General Discussion

ok so i was thinking about the apex/entry fragger disagreement that owl wrote (which he said was his strongest disagreement) and i felt like i could do a better job explaining my original point on that:

NV is built around trading. The role of the entry fragger is primarily to BE traded. this is not to say that you can stick anyone in the role and it doesnt matter if they cant hit shit, its really useful if your entry fragger can do some damage or even get a kill before going down, but thats all icing on the cake. When Apex goes into a site NV doesnt need him to kill to win the round. T's are fine with trading without adv, because they are essentially guaranteed the numbers adv wherever they go.

ie, you execute onto A on Cache, Apex looks forklift immediately and sees nothing. Hes shot from quad. The CT's now have man adv and trade adv, what that means is that if from this point on both teams trade perfectly the CT's will win. That's hard to do, because Kio just came out A main and domed the guy quad as he was finishing his kill on Apex. Now the teams are even (which favors the T's), but the CT's still have trade adv because the kill on the quad player was a return kill. Now the fork player peeks and kills Kio as hes running into site, he has a massive adv because the entire T side has a lot of potential angles to watch, and the fork player has the information on where exactly kio is. then the rest of the T side piles in, and either Happy or NBK will probably get the kill on the guy fork and set up for a 3v3 retake. The CT trade adv runs out, because theres no one in position to trade off the forklift player.

its why the entry is so crucial, because if Apex gets the first kill and therefore trade adv for his team, youre looking at a nearly unwinnable 3v4 retake assuming the CT can trade apex out (which isnt even guaranteed). Does Apex win a lot of rounds because hes great at his role? Yes. Would NV be able to win a map if Apex wasnt landing shots or was guessing ct locations wrong a lot? Yes. For a map like Mirage you only need 4 or 5 t rounds to be competitive if your ct is lockdown, you can get those 4 or 5 rounds on your basic trade execute without relying on your entry fragger to carry. that was my point, not that apex is unimportant, but that if you understand and are good at trading your life you can win a decent number of t rounds because you can set yourself up for favorable retakes.

your protip seems obviously facetious? NV has a lot of executes and set pick plays, even after Apex goes down. It's just Apex tends to be involved in them, because of his role as tradebait.

anyway, i think i explained a bit more what i meant. remember, that nerd essay was written late at night, so its unpolished, but i do think that most if not all of what i wrote has truth in it.

if anyone else, or owl, wants to have anything else clarified just post itt, i enjoy writing and thinking about cs, because i think cs is a really fun game with surprising depth. i didnt write that nerd essay trying to impress a tf2 forum, i wrote it because i was thinking about it and wanted to get some raw thoughts down. i think i can defend everything that i posted in the essay if anyone bothers to read it, and i also disagree that its full of hot air. there are editting issues like repeating words, but for the amount of shit i wanted to write it really couldnt be much shorter.

anyway, if you dont want to read it: don't. its obnoxious to reply "thats all bullshit" with no substance. if my post was really that atrocious this thread could have died 20 posts ago after no one read and responded to me without that completely unnecessary shit flinging contest.

posted about 8 years ago
#60 Scream to Titan in CS2 General Discussion
owlWell considering you've played 2 tf2 matches in open and you've never played a cs match I guess your ugc profile is the only thing you have going for you....

lmao i came here and posted something not very controversial (definitely not singling out any readers of this site)

which u then inserted your ego into when you decided to make a post about the "fact" that it was wrong before posting why it was wrong. i just wanted to discuss it, and now i have people combing over my esea and a game i quit ages ago. sick, another dissident squashed. owl is proven right. im so glad we had to have a discussion about my person instead of my post lol

posted about 8 years ago
#58 Scream to Titan in CS2 General Discussion
owlyikes.....

I think I'm done here

so someone can post my ugc when i have barely touched tf2 in 3 months in a thread on cs

but as soon as i bring up rws im the bad guy?

posted about 8 years ago
#56 Scream to Titan in CS2 General Discussion
owl10.69 WITH TWO PUGS

It LITERALLY means nothing

i just played one for this thread and dropped 13

should i do it again rofl? how many pugs until u admit im better at cs i wonder?

posted about 8 years ago
#52 Scream to Titan in CS2 General Discussion
owlHonestly the single dumbest thing you said was that it doesn't matter if apex gets entries or not as long as he sets up good trades (protip this isn't true, happy's only 'execute' is "hey apex go open up a site" and if he fails nV just wanders around the map looking for picks)

ya happy moves players around looking for picks. if they give up the entry they go for the trade. NV is a trade based team, apex is always the first herring you put out when youre looking to go fishing

-dazed copied happy's calling style (yes compare a guy with no calls to one of the stricter igls in cs good work)

dazed admits that he would primarily watch and copy NV (then LDLC) to think up IBP's strats on both T and CT. if u watched him u could hear it

-seangares is a bad igl because he doesn't watch demos like happy???? (Not even sure what you're aiming at here sgares is known for being an avid demo watcher)

he was, back when c9 was going to be big. then they enjoyed some success, and i honestly think hes watching way fewer demos. its possible theyll bounce back, but they had a sophomore slump because they went away from what worked, advancing the meta by watching the top teams play and stealing their plays and counterplays.

-the French scene would be irrelevant if happy went away

happy is the only igl that can carry a french squad, because he can teach players to play within his system (like how dazed was comfortable microing ska to the extreme)

-swag is somehow innocent because he's poor? Like he needs to get skins to feed his starving family? Even if this was true it doesn't make him any more or less innocent than any of the others

it wasnt his idea, he was 17 years old, and his parents struggle to make ends meet bad enough that c9 has him on a paltry budget just to help out. ya, he is more innocent. this point is mind bogglingly stupid

also as long as we're calling people out:
both dummy and yourself are sub 10rws players with 1000+ hours. im glad we had this dick measuring contest

posted about 8 years ago
#50 Scream to Titan in CS2 General Discussion
dummyif someone says i'm wrong they must be misunderstanding right?

But yeah everything youve posted is nonsense. You had a lot of words in there, I'll give you that!

see you just misinterpreted my post

i never said that i must be right, or that he must be misunderstanding. i said (pay close attention): im only going to concede that he probably misunderstood because i worded something poorly.

its possible im wrong, im just not going to bend over everytime someone with 8 rws opens his mouth.

nor am i going to concede everything after some other 8 rws player attacks me

posted about 8 years ago
#42 Scream to Titan in CS2 General Discussion
owlJust FYI like 60% of what you said is just total bullshit if I were at a computer I'd go through it line by line and tell you where you're wrong but that'll have to wait.

ehh

the extent i would concede is you mightve misinterpreted something ive said because i said it in a bad way, but i doubt anything i said is wrong

we'll see i guess....when you point at a single thing...and provide supporting evidence...which youre doing

posted about 8 years ago
#40 Scream to Titan in CS2 General Discussion
Swag doesn't actually do coaching or analysis at all, didn't do it before the Valve statement either. He just streams under the C9 name and plays 10 mans. C9 basically just bagged him for when he gets unbanned.

[/quote]
oh also:
not entirely true
yes swag is an amazing cs talent to fit into the role you want, but the main reason he was picked up early is because he actually has money issues. which is why him being fucked for the throw is kind of messed up because:
1. I dont think he was 18 when they threw (<-this should probably be mentioned more...)
2. his family doesnt exactly have the most money and it threw his situation into the limelight... so he was one of the ones where throwing seemed like the most obvious thing to do. banning him from cs for life after he invested so much time into honing his cs ability would be akin to banning a college player for life for being on a team that threw (or accepting gifts from scouts.... hmmm i think ive heard something about that happening once or twice or HUNDREDS OF TIMES none of which ended up in lifelong sport bans.)

ok after that last comment you might think "actually the NCAA probably would..."
1. maybe the ncaa, i really doubt the nba would also ban them
2. swag was 17, so actually its like a high schooler
3. college basketball has a much larger surrounding infrastructure so shit like this doesnt happen. no college player would throw for money, because they are actually set. A lot of cs players in the middle of 2013 were struggling for cash, remember this is before a single major

#FREESWAG

and then finally:
unban dazed because he can actually make good cs players. the US is like France if Happy got banned: not internationally relevant

holy shit that was long, tune in next time for:
no sensitivity isn't subjective you fucking idiot
or
cs and poker are the same game, and if you actually understand cs you understand poker and vice versa (obligatory: WHAT UP NOW SWEDES retard is now a millionaire poker player lmao) (obligatory: shaguar isn’t a retard in any sense of the word)

posted about 8 years ago
#39 Scream to Titan in CS2 General Discussion
SchweppeskaidusIsn't it widely considered that they are coaches in everything but name?basically this
steel is clg's coach, but he isn't allowed to state that directly. He just hints towards it sometimes on stream.

I think this should be taken with a grain of salt, from watching some 10man/steel streams it seems more like:
1. Steel has demo reviewed CLG's demos before on request of CLG
2. Steel briefly lived in the CLG house when he didnt have anywhere to live (his house was flooded? i think?)
So does steel coach CLG? Not really? he doesn't design plays for them, he doesn't go to tournaments and provide them feedback on how maps went, he just watches them play sometimes and calls them out on blown coverages basically. he's like a fancy ESPN talking head. Could he play top level CS anymore? probably. Is his analysis of CLG the equivalent of acting as the coach of a top level cs team? no.

NB: steel/dazed are viewed as these godly cs geniuses. its worth noting, that throughout their entire cs career (source included) has basically consisted of stealing smarter french igls (xsten6(im not even going to bother learning to spell his name until he makes another top 5 cs team) and happy (pronax honorable mention, but happy is easier to mimic because happy creates godly cs players and pronax just finds them).

so lets talk about steel first, his entire csgo strategy is stolen from dazed. ok thats it.

so lets talk about dazed. dazed stole it from copying and mimicing LDLC. At least thats when IBP got really really nice, he designed his strategy (and his entire way of viewing "right" cs) based on how happy saw it. what i think is interesting is the way he was able to do it, and why for a moment it looked like sgares (and therefore c9) would be able to do it and become a top 4 cs team. Watching and having his team copy LDLC's demos. LDLC eats T2 teams for breakfast, they can literally outmuscle every T2 team. How? All of his players including him are basically flowcharts, flowcharts learned in scrims based on being told by happy what to do differently.

so if your dazed, you tell each player exactly what to do every round, and mix it up only as often as LDLC mixes it up. Those deviations are stolen from LDLC. Everything is. What makes being an igl so hard, is being able to read when to deviate, what mid round adjustments to make. Now finally, you don’t have to. You run the same pistol rounds, you run the same gun rounds, you run the same eco rounds, you utilize the same buying strategy. And it doesn’t matter, because you aren’t being counterstratted yet.

So why did sgares fail where dazed succeeded? Sgares doesn’t actually get the igl role (maybe he does, but it doesn’t look like it). Happy understood it the absolute best: its watching demos, and playing the most complicated role in whatever system is being used. People accuse happy of baiting? No fucking shit, its his job as igl to set himself up for the easy 100% frags. The difference is those frags are also the most varied frags anyone on his team picks up. It’s why LDLC (now NV) realized that all that mattered is: the igl, and 4 best role players (basically aim/dm). this is basketball where the coach is forced to play basically. it will eventually more resemble the pg in basketball, but right now its 100% the coach.

What are those roles?
Carry – Kioshima/Shroud/Swag: only listing Happy styled carries. Fnatic is much less rigid, because they weren’t all made into amazing cs players by pronax in the same way that all of NV has been created by either happy or shox (shox started kio, happy polished him). This is the guy who collects frags, because hes set up for them in strict senses (not fluid happy style).

Entry/Trade-bait – Freakazoid/Apex/Steel: the player that walks into to die to a peeking ct and get traded on. Aim is nice, but tbh you don’t need this player to get kills. Seriously, you can get all the T rounds you want with your entry getting 0 kills. But ya, you hope he can win you some rounds by giving you the trade advantage in a site take (which is what a good entry does for his team). Your strats will tend to leave T2 teams out of position and blind so he can devour T2 teams which is where the value in him having good aim really helps.
Inside Scoop: This used to be Kio, and Shox was carry. I think the LDLC meltdown occurred because Happy realized that kio was the better carry and shox the better entry, but shox felt he was too good and too smart to be utilized in entry roles. In the end happy shipped out shox and smithzz because smithzzz wasn’t good enough and shox didn’t want to switch roles. SPECULATION

Sniper – Skadoodle (under both dazed and sgares)/KennyS: when you win a forcebuy, or weak buy chances are if its past the first 7 rounds of the game that there is an awp to pickup. The awp is really powerful for entries, or at least forcing your enemy to respect certain angles, and PUNISH enemies for peeking for information. Seriously, this is what makes awps awesome, they force teams to respect your silence, they cant peek for information without potentially losing their life. Therefore: the awp is a game changer, and ideally you have a player who can tear it up with the awp and you can afford them to be a weaker rifler. This role used to be less sniper focused, but it just makes sense to basically “hide” your best awper in a role that allows for a weaker rifle.

IGL – sgares, Happy, Dazed: You watch demos. When you lose, you find a team that’s better than you and copy them. So lets say you play vs. fnatic and get dumped on. Switch to fnatics ct and t side. How did fnatic beat you? Switch to fnatics new ct and t side. Now you can do that from square 0 and just copy every team you play, but its simpler if you pull a Dazed and just copy a really solid fundamental cs team, and then once your competing at a high level, you start really copying your opponents. Oh ya, and because you understand whats actually happening in the game, youre expected to be smart about rotating. You are the important rotate/switch role on most maps. Other players should expect constancy in their rounds, you should be freestyling a little more.
Inside Scoop: this is where sgares struggles. He allows other people to call over him, back when POVs were a thing there was an important round where sgares called for an NOA stack at mid after the T’s smoked it. Freakazoid disagreed, and so did N0thing. Both players were hesistant to stack. Eventually they did, they were spammed down by someone xbox. Both players took that as a sign they were right. In reality, sgares was, their hesitance cost them the frag, the entry in an unbelievably crucial round. (the entry matters because youre giving a team the trade advantage).

Rock/Safelane Carry (lmao dota) – NBK/AZK/n0thing (lmao this is why c9 sucks btw no one can assign a role to Kobe Bean Bryant I mean n0thing whoops xd): Second best aimer, plays safe positions where the importance is staying alive to play off other peoples peeks and flashes (B site on inferno, long on dust2). This is n0things and c9’s big issue, n0thing doesn’t understand that his job is just to copy what sgares tells him, he overthinks his positions and ends up costing a lot of rounds. Remember when Dazed said he would just post someone up where Jordan plays and get a frag everytime when he pushes? He wasn’t joking, Jordan doesn’t understand that pushing as a ct a lot causes a lot of drag on your round winrate, and against ecos will cause SERIOUS issues.

Because thats whats great about cs, its this amazing behemoth blend of basketball and poker and it makes for a display of raw skill and genius decisionmaking (wagering peeks/lives and rounds rather than chips and pots).

posted about 8 years ago
#38 recent/new release rap thread in Music, Movies, TV

views from the 6 was supposed to drop yesterday and it didnt,,,,,, what the fuck was the point of the mystery date popping up on the OVO website!!

posted about 8 years ago
#51 b4nny beef in TF2 General Discussion
Viperhttps://twitter.com/GrantVincent27/status/638785968313638913

This is the real b4nny beef.

all that juice on the plate...........

let it rest before cutting

thats nasty

posted about 8 years ago
#6 CS:GO update for 9/3/15 (1.34.9.9) in CS2 General Discussion
kounterpartsinvictadoes anyone know exactly what they did to the forklift?
made the bars thinner like the actual map was, just toom like 2 months for valve to update their version

they waited until after the major....
pretty sensible tbh

posted about 8 years ago
#31 hi im sad all the time in The Dumpster

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obesely-speaking/201411/excessive-attention-seeking-and-drama-addiction

"is it fixable?"
"no, it is not fixable"
:(

posted about 8 years ago
#23 live gunman kills reporter then himself in Off Topic

guns are weird af

posted about 8 years ago
#135 ESL Cologne in CS2 General Discussion
GeknaiirSchweppesRed_Yeah the bo1s in elimation is fucking aids. I wanted Kinguin to win but I feel so bad for c9 after such a great buildup to the major"C9 wins Bo1 over nV - "stop saying Bo1 doesn't count"
C9 loses Bo1 to Kinguin - "Bo1 is bullshit"

The ONLY reason there was massive mockery of euros about bo1 was because of what followed a day later.... C9 winning a bo3 over NV...

There was a big outlash following the bo1 win where euros argued that bo1 doesn't mean anything, or that c9 could never pull it off in a bo3.

The bo3 win the next day simply led to some funny comments where some arrogant NV fans ended up in a bind by arguing so fiercely that the bo1 was random and so some happy c9 fans made comments like "bo3 too random, we need bo7 playoffs"

Hltv didn't explode until after the bo3 really, and that's why you hear about c9>NV instead of CLG>fnatic

posted about 8 years ago
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