30k have died (not really but whatever) because Hamas uses them as human shields. Let's hate Hamas together for this!

Answer the question I asked you: If, god forbid, your mother was killed while the IDF was bombing apartment buildings saying they wanted to kill Hamas, would you be satisfied? would you say "oh well they took the appropriate steps, so whatever!"?

Hahahah guys actually we don't hate jews. We changed our mind in 2017. Now we only hate zionists. Do you listen to yourself? What is there to clarify when the original charters says JEWS should be KILLED? Clearly a PR move.

so you just base your arguments on your own personal opinions? Your assumptions are apparently equivalent to facts? This is a common thing you've done, whenever you come across anything that proves you wrong, you simply call it a lie, falsified, etc. But then in that same exact breath, you will quote IDF sources as if they arent inherently biased. You can't cherry pick stats & sources like this, it shows a lack of skills in researching and formulating your opinions & ideas.

They wouldn't have any justification for it, because now the only justification is that Hamas uses civilian buildings.

Again you bring up the human shield narrative. Regardless of that, what to you constitutes a "military base of operations"? Because when that hospital was bombed to shit because IDF said there was a hamas base underneath, the pictures they took showed 3-4 rifles, and then boots and books. Please tell me if that justifies the levelling of hospitals, schools, churches, masjids, etc.

They will stop if Hamas stops lol. Even if they wanted not to, they would have to cave to external and internal pressures. You know, because Israel is a democracy.

wow more just blatant lies, who would have guessed. In the history of Palestine and the existence of Israel, do you have any proof to back up the idea that Israel will simply stop? They are the aggressors. They are not even a democracy, just look at the judicial reforms. You seem to think that since Israel is a "democracy" that they are infallible and impervious to evil/corruption.

Camp David Summit was going to give 100% of Gaza and 91% of West Bank to Palestine. Even parts of Jerusalem iirc. This is not the majority. Are we going by some weird "historical" Palestinian lands some of which were never really owned by the Palestinian state, and which now Jews live on?

Oh, thats so considerate. After kicking me out of my house and letting me live in the basement, you say that you will only take 10% of that basement for yourself, thats so considerate! leaving 90% of a humid basement! I don't know if you are willingly ignorant or just this stupid, but there are countless documents out there reporting stats and figures about the extent to which Palestinians inhabited the land that is now Israel before 1948, before the Nakba. You can look for yourself, and finally come to the conclusion that they were kicked out of land they were living in, relegated to some tiny pockets, and are expected to be happy that they can live in 10% of the land they used to live in.

Russia was wrong to invade, and they committed war crimes per the ICC. They don't deserve any of Crimea. The analogy does not work in the least. Israel and Palestine are also one country technically. Jews now live on those lands and you want to expel them. They will say no, and you will use force, killing them.

But how do you know? Crimea had a referendum that said they liked Russia, didnt they? All that aside, you yourself said that Jews NOW live on those lands. It's like your own subconscious is screaming at you. You are right that they are one country, because even what constitutes "Palestine" is occupied and strictly governed by Israel with their apartheid system.

Hamas claimed 50 of the 200 or so people killed by the IDF were their militants. Looks like a great ratio to me!

Did you know that in WW2, according to your precious non-hamas sources, the civilian casualty ratio was in the 60%s, that included deaths from the many famines not to mention bombings and such. In the Great March of Return, it is 75%. You call that good? All of this is beginning to make me think that you think killing innocent civilian protesters is okay, so long as a few "militants" are also killed in the bunch. I thought you valued democracy so much??? what happened?

I don't even know what to say anymore. You see Hamas as this pure evil who will do nothing but lie, and then see the IDF as pure good, only telling the truth. You can't change your viewpoint and cant see any fault. Calling Israel a democracy is fucking hilarious considering the insane protests in Tel Aviv earlier this year, the judicial reform and all. I have provided you with unbiased statistical pages, as have others, you keep asking for sources because you either cant bother yourself to look at the links, or you are so brainwashed you see anything that proves you wrong as being a lie. You see a picture of 2 AKs and a pair of boots and to you, that justifies the leveling of a hospital, so of course you use the same human shield argument over and over again. You only see Palestinians as collateral damage, not as human beings.

Terrorism is violence for political gains, which is the case here with settlers.

If, god forbid, your mother was killed while the IDF was bombing apartment buildings saying they wanted to kill Hamas, would you be satisfied? would you say "oh well they took the appropriate steps, so whatever!"? We all have such obscene privilege to be living far from this, but for some reason you cannot see that. You wouldn't understand unless it happens to you, because you are apathetic.

Nothing will change your mind, you have this godly image of Israel in your head and all the brainwashing and bullshit propaganda that is backed up by ZERO evidence has clearly gotten the better of you. Good luck in the afterlife when you finally face the music

what world do you live in? 30000 have died (not counting the thousands trapped under rubble) in 3 months. Israel is already in talks with other countries trying to get them to take in the Palestinians, and you better understand that they will not be giving that land back to them.

Look at the 2017 charter, the revised charter, in which they clarify their opponent being ZIONISM, not Jews. If you equate the two, then look at the Jews in NA who are protesting AGAINST Israel, and IN FAVOUR of Palestine.

With or without Hamas, Israel will bomb and massacre Palestinians, it will just be a longer time-scale. All Hamas is, to the Israeli government, is a reason to ramp up aggression and bombings, a reason to bomb schools and hospitals, churches and masjids.

stopping their bombings and decreasing are 2 different things. Israel will DECREASE, but they will NEVER stop bombing. Again, Israel is using Hamas to justify their sped up genocide.

In every single peace deal, land partition, etc. there was the stipulation that Palestinians give up MAJORITY of their lands. They would be accepting that they are essentially locked into Gaza and West Bank, and that Jerusalem is occupied by Israel. Let's say Russia offered to stop the war if Ukraine accepted the annexation of Crimea, Donbas, Donetsk, Mariupol, etc. would you blame Ukrainians for not accepting it? Should Russia be allowed to take all of those cities, simply because they offered to stop the invasion if they did? If that were the case, then there would be nothing stopping the world superpowers from slowly stealing away the entire world for themselves.

what about the Great March of Return? The 2017-2018 protests, in which HUNDREDS of peaceful palestinian protesters were killed by the IDF. Should all protests be violently put down if they interfere with the US agenda?

Also, do you have anything to say about the other bullshit pretenses you made?

All Palestinians have to do is just not fight back, accept their extermination, and let all of their land be stolen, and accept being shipped off to other countries so that Israel can peacefully exterminate their culture and identity!

how self deluded do you have to be to say these things??

"IDF. They fight and kill Hamas, and Hamas are terrorists. This is obvious. Hamas attacked civilians on Oct 7th and this is why they are now getting bombed."

Okay, but you can see that the IDF would post stats that are biased towards them, right? Like if you say I cant use the stats from one side of the conflict, that means you cant use stats from the other side. There's no reason for anyone to believe the IDF is being truthful and non-biased in their reporting and statements and such. You can't simply just say things and expect for them to be true, like "oh Hamas are terrorists because they attacked civilians", because you need to use your brain and go before the 7th of October, and see the facts.

500 Palestinian children dead in 2014 summer, by my calculations that date appears to be before October 7th 2023...

Also, you keep switching your "proportionality" from Hamas vs Palestinian civilians and Israeli deaths vs Palestinian deaths. Which is it? I mentioned the Tokyo Fire Bombings because you said people shouldn't support Israel because they (accidentally) kill civilians.

When I talk about hamas soldiers to civilians, I am talking about the civilian:militant casualty rate, making a point about how while the IDF claims that they are fighting Hamas, they are massacring tons of civilians while barely killing any Hamas soldiers.

When I talk about israeli civilians to palestinian civilians, I am talking about proportionality and collective punishment. Why are the 2 million residents of Gaza being massacred?

These are 2 different points im making, both that the IDF is collectively punishing all of Gaza for "crimes" that they themselves have committed on a FAR larger scale, and that in that "mission" about "fighting terrorism", they seem to only be killing civilians, mostly children and women...

I'm iffy on Iraq, and kinda support Afghanistan but that's beside the point, and the argument for these wars is more than just "they have terrorists".

you being "iffy" on Iraq and pro invading Afghanistan really just seals the deal here, you are a pro-imperialist pro-colonialist who cares only about the spreading US hegemony, about the ability of the US and Nato to just bully the globe into doing whatever it is they want. You show that to you, middle-easterns are subhuman and their life is worth less, since you support wars that were based on lies and bullshit and lead to the deaths of millions and the dumpster fires that are Iraq and Afghanistan today.

The justification was more than "there were terrorists" but they were still all blatant lies.

Palestine-Israel conflict would probably still exist even if there was no Hamas terrorism (it would just make Palestine seem much better).

You admit that without Hamas, the conflict would still exist. You just proved my whole argument, that this is colonialism and unjustified. If there was no Hamas, Israel would have to invent (which they did) Hamas, so they have fingers to point at so that gullible suckers like you would sit there with your thumb in your mouth screaming "KHAMAS IS TERRORIST DO YOU CONDEMN KHAMAS!!!!", instead of seeing that this is all about land and genocide and ethnic cleansing.

What is the point of arguing about this when the ICC is currently investigating Israel? Why not wait for their independent conclusion? Are we that desperate to score political points for the in-group?

Yeah man, the ICC is definitely the holiest and most righteous and trustworthy body out there!
Why are you being surprised that the statistics that orgs around the world are using are coming from groups WITHIN palestine, how else would the stats get out there? If you cherry pick enough, maybe you could justify this massacre, maybe, but sadly that isnt how it works. You cant just look at any source that opposes your viewpoint and call it lies. Besides, somebody else replied and gave you another website, so go there if you want.

Settlers are not terrorists, no. I don't particularly agree with settlers being in the West Bank either. Doesn't mean Hamas is justified or that innocent settlers should be killed.

Therein lies the rub, you don't see settlers as terrorists. You don't see people that show up to houses armed to the teeth with assault rifles that kick the original inhabitants out to make room for themselves as terrorists. You even fucking call them innocent, which is just TOO cute, considering the countless stories of settlers killing innocent Palestinians so they can steal their land.

All in all, you are pro-war and think that the US and Israel can do no wrong, you support Afghanistan, you essentially support Iraq, you probably thought Libya was a good idea too. You are in favour of collective punishment, and you see children as numbers and "collateral damage", you are morally and ethically bankrupt.

You don't trust Hamas data, okay so where do you get the data that they are "fighting terrorists" from? It's fucking insane that you equate Israel to the Allies here, its absurd.
Some quick googling reveals that the Japanese Empire was responsible for tens of millions of deaths, many many civilian deaths. So you can use your little brain to work out some proportionality argument, seeing as the Japanese empire did so much destruction, atrocities, massacres etc, then the firebombing could be seen as proportionate.

Now let me hold your hand and walk you through this: how many Israeli's have been killed by the Palestine entity? How many civilians did Palestinian groups kill in the past 2 decades? Compare that with the amount of Palestinians that the IDF has killed in JUST THE LAST 3 MONTHS. I'm already trying to skew it in favour of your argument, compare a 20 year death toll to a 3 month death toll. Unfortunately you will come to the conclusion that the Israeli lives lost absolutely pale in comparison to the Palestinian death toll.

So now you can see that it was not proportionate, just by comparing those simple and easy to access numbers. Then you can finally come to the conclusion that your argument of allies vs japan is fucking moronic and based on facetious assumptions.

There are terrorists in every country in the world. Does that justify an invasion? Can I please get your stance on the US invasion of Iraq? On their invasion of Afghanistan? You must support those wars because "there were terrorists". So you view collective punishment as ethical, reasonable, correct?

Now for the ratio, I am sourcing a non-hamas, Switzerland based group, https://euromedmonitor.org/en and according to them, of the total 30,000 dead palestinians since Oct 7th, 27000 are civilians. Meaning (using simple math here i know its hard for you to understand) 3000 of the 30,000 are militants. 3000 dead militants for 27,000 dead civilians. So there are your numbers.

Awww poor baby chungus cant laugh at his shitposts without being reminded of a genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign happening in this world? If you don't have a real opinion, you're either a psychopath who is willingly ignorant to the crimes of the IDF and equate what happened on ONE DAY (oct 7) to the past 75+ years of bloodshed and oppression and massacring that has gone on, OR you are naive child who knows nothing about the world and is too selfish to spend any % of your brainpower on anything except your own personal desires. So either you are a smelly centrist or a narcissistic moron, either way you are fucked in the head.

lets act for a minute that your horrific premise is true (you can support IDF while they kill thousands of children because they claim to be "fighting terrorists") what about the west bank then? Hamas is not the leader of the west bank, yet children there die to IDF atrocities all the time as well.

"collateral damage" doesnt apply when the ratio of dead civilians per dead hamas is as high as it is. You talk about OP being biased but I bet you're the kind of person to read an NY times article about dead babies and parade it around as evidence that palestinian children should die.

nuggies running it back

I think that if carter (sometimes known around these parts as Ash) came back, then the season would be saved. It's clear in recent history that Grant relied heavily on Carter during the i50s era, and he was the backbone (NOT clockwork). ever since he left the scene, tf2 has never fully recovered.

my hud shows me the location of the whole enemy team through walls its a cool upgrade i did it gave me a boost in my dpm! try it out

god bless you

I literally have this problem right now, ive uninstalled the game and all my configs and steam cloud is disabled but it keeps reupdating itself or whatever in my folder

once i switched from smoking meat to grilling it, my life completely changed. you have so much more control over the temp, rarity, etc. just a perfect way to make rare - medium rare chicken

she didnt do something THAT bad, like stealing a bag of chips or something like that, we could at least let her play on tf2pugs.com