When I said "nobody's writing good things about mini-crits, if at all", I meant "people aren't pleased with reflected projectiles dealing mini-crits, if they're even thinking about it". Sorry for the confusion. ^^;

So it was a lamentation of exceptional difficulty, then! Understandable, but I feel that applying physical force is well within the abilities of SourceMod and myself. ;)

So you're just gonna ignore the fact that I opened up this thread with "I'm a modder with a server click here to see it look look"? Why, if I had a glove and were standing before you right now, I'd slap you with it and demand satisfaction!

(Also, I'm currently investigating how to tell when someone's been airblasted, which will open up a lot of options for changes.)

So airblasting seems to be a big problem people have with the class, eh? Lemme see if I understand this correctly:

• When being airblasted, the player is momentarily stunned. This is disliked.
  
• If people could better respond to being airblasted, there'd be less of a problem.
  
• The mechanic is simply too binary, too all-or-nothing, at this point.
  
• Nobody's writing good things home about the mini-crits, if at all.

Is that the general opinion? What have I mistaken, if anything?

I've not seen anything in the official master list of attributes that would allow me to change how airblasts work, aside from disabling them or affecting their cost.

WAIT, NEVERMIND. HOLY CRAP, SOME OF THESE LOOK FUN.

I'll probably be able to remove the stun attached to airblast, but I don't think SourceMod will let me do any of the other suggestions regarding it without attaching code to every time every player spawns any kind of entity; bullet, projectile, building, or particle. That'd be hell for the server to process. ^^;

Everyone's a comedian~

My goal, ultimately, is to address that. I'll be making WWYLS-threads on each class, over time. I'm just starting with Pyro because I like it~

Hello everyone!

I'm just gonna cut to the chase here: what would you like to see on Pyro, to make them more fun to play as and/or against?

Currently, I've got a mod brewing that ramps up point-blank damage while increasing deterioration from the standard damage beyond that. From what I've heard discussed, the consensus seems to be that (1) the class is far too disruptive for how much focus it requires, and (2) their ability to function autonomously is very unreliable. With those two points in mind, I figured to work in a mechanic that punishes haphazard play while rewarding getting into a range that (as I understand it) is very difficult to enter... without damaging server-performance.

That's about as far as I want to chime in, right now: this is meant to help me learn your perspective, not you learn mine. I'll speak on what's feasible from a technological standpoint, and ask the occasional question, but I'm not here to debate. This is about what you, the players, want; an inherently subjective thing.

In case you're curious. I've got a NoCrit/NoSpread server which is currently running a now-outdated version of my mod. Details on the mod, and a link to the server itself, can be found here:
http://alfonsocrawford.com/sickburn/

I look forward to gaining your perspective on the class. :)

Huzzah, I am now vaguely awake! Let's see if I can get these thoughts out all at once, eh?

Reading over the comments, I'm seeing that the common line of thinking in this situation is to liken the Pyro to the Soldier; a reasonable move, considering how severely airblasting affects Soldiers, but it's not the direction Sick Burn is going in. Instead of the conforming to the common paradigm of moving quickly, the Pyro's design subverts it; being effective by quickly moving others. Where others can operate largely independently from a healer, the Pyro (like the Heavy) shines as an escort... in theory.

In reality, the Pyro is basically a gimp unable to do a terrible lot at mid without extraordinary effort. The supposed domination of narrow corridors is really just so many particles as the Pyro is done away with in a hallway: to the end of reversing that, the stun was implemented, allowing the Pyro to defend the Medic as they fallback in one of the choke points commonly surrounding mid. Scouts can still very easily drive back Pyros, so the game is far from broken at this point. If anything, the Pyro is still a bad choice, on account of losing either a Scout or a Soldier.

The next problem is to give the Pyro real offensive options, to go along with the defensive viability affored by reversing rockets. Jerry brings up a very good point, in that a ham-fisted accommodation of the competitive scene simply isn't going to work. What's needed is a change in perspective. With damage over time, Spy-checking, the ability to reverse attacks, and anti-Sapper functionality throw in to boot, it's clear that the Pyro is meant to be a little different: it's not a tanking kill-seeker, it's a "spellcaster"; doing more with special effects than raw damage. In that vein, version 4 of Sick Burn (should it be possible to do so) will have afterburn dampening victims' attack-power by 15-20%. (This will be done in lieu of affecting damage-spread, as projected in the original post.)

The effect is enough to be noticed, but not enough to through a spanner into the any- and everything a player could hope to do. With as many ways to undo burning as there are, it shouldn't be nearly as disastrous as the Natascha experiment. ^^;

Anyway, I've got a job to head out to. Have fun tearing me apart as you have been: it's been... "enlightening," let's say. :)

Ugh. Why did work have to go so long, tonight? The feedback here has got me thinking, and I have a few ideas on what do next and how to wield Sick Burn effectively within the current metagame.

@eXtine: Considering just how deeply I've had to delve into SourceMod so far, and how far I plan to go in the near future, buffing the Detonator likely within my ability as a mod developer. Just for you, I'll make it a point to implement that in version 4, though I can't promise anything just yet. This is just fatigue-induced rambling here; but what if friendly collisions were detected, and the Third Degree applied damage to its own wielder when used on a healing Medic (with no damage done to the Medic, and the present block removed, of course)? That would be pretty elegant, if it's even possible, and lacking the benefits of the Axtinguisher/Homewrecker/Back Scratcher would be counter-balance enough…?

Your concern is valid, and I am right with you in that making Pyro a de facto class in a sizes format would not be a good thing. My goal is to raise Pyro's viability in a wider number of situations, not have it be a dominating force in every skirmish. The primary feature of the mod is designed around that philosophy, making the Pyro more effective only within its very limited range of specialty. As of right now in Sick Burn, mid- to long-range combat is still extraordinally bad for the class, and that is no accident. :)

Upending the established paradigm would be terrible, I agree: there's a lot of good currently going on in Team Fortress currently. Sick Burn isn't designed to turn the game on its head, however: it's designed to add to it. Giving the Pyro a degree of solid area-denial opens up a wealth of potential avenues for the class, and consequently the game at large; without taking away anything already present and enjoyed thoroughly.

I can see why you would say that. ^^;

In Sick Burn, I have used it more as a counter-balance than as a punishment; making it more a tactical variable that has just as much potential to be an advantage as it could be a hindrance.

Yes, that's how the mod is programmed. :)

[Being rather tired, I'm just gonna throw this into the forum and then respond when I'm rested and capable of more complex thinking.]

I made a mod for TF2, called Sick Burn, to give the Pyro some more tactical viability. In version 3, flamethrower-hits stun enemies for half a second (not stacking), during which time they move very quickly. The Degreaser does not have this new property. In version 4, I'm thinking to add an increased weapon-spread to burning players. Some melee-tweaks have been thrown in, as well. (Version 3.1 will be coming out shortly.)

This mod was developed under the mindset that damage values alone are not enough to make the Pyro work on the same level as their peers; and that the solution can and ought to improve the game for both competitive and casual gamers, without sacrificing any of the tactics created thus far.

http://alfonsocrawford.com/sickburn/

All feedback is welcome, as it is crucial to making this modification as good as it can be.

Before you try it out for yourself (a download and a server are in the above URL), know that Heavy is a great counter to Pyro since Heavies can rev their guns while stunned and boosted to near-Scout speed. W+M1 does not really improve at all, in any match-up. Any items that boost fire-damage are probably going to cause strange behavior, with how the mod is written currently: tests still need to be run.