I'm sorry for anyone who lost someone that day. That being said, I don't see how Americans can be all supportive of their military and yet acknowledge the wrongs of 911. It was war. It was a terrorist attack, and it was very wrong, but it was war nonetheless.

There is certainly a degree of cognitive dissonance going on here. I again urge you not to lump all Americans together or focus only on the loudest majority of them though. I think it's wholly possible to understand that some people join the military with the intention of defending one's country, and that service can be a very difficult experience both physically and emotionally, while also understanding that the military's movements are largely dictated by politics. There's a lot of things that people should answer for and never will.

I'm not against supporting people joining the military; there's no doubt in my mind people do it for the right reasons. But the military is ruled by politicians whose intentions aren't always as pure.

Word. And i love how there is only US people being butthurt.

Okay, a few points.

First of all, I don't understand why you insist on using butthurt as an adjective to describe any of us when you are clearly one of the most defensive and least insightful people I have ever known.

Second, I spent what I would consider my formative years outside of the United States, and while my citizenship and residence is of this country, I would hardly call myself a patriot, and just barely an American culturally. My concern isn't with identifying people by a country of origin or tagging them as "Americans" vs "Others", my concern here was that you were taking so many human (human, whether they're from the states or from another country) elements out of this equation, and instead focusing on something as petty as an "us vs. them" mentality.

great, lessons in social justice from europeans the harbingers of brutal colonization and exploitation of indigenous people.

There is no point in trying to make the day less significant. If you don't understand why it is significant beyond merely the death toll and military action, you grossly misunderstand the history.

I too think you are an arse, mewtwo.
To think you wouldn't get mostly american views on a largely american forum is quite naive.

I've watched a a few of those 9/11 documentaries on Channel 4 recently. Still sends a chill down the spine. I find it quite paralyzing to watch a lot of the footage.

This "argument" that 9/11 was some how deserved by America or justified by their past actions is a total fallacy. How many of the thousands that died in the towers and planes had been involved in enacting American foreign policy in the last century? No justification whatsoever.

The janitor working the middle 20 floors probably planned some warcrimes for lunch and then murdered innocent people in another country in the name of Being American.

Edit: Okay the above is clearly too sarcastic. I apologize. It's far too late for me to be awake.

are you daft

This thread has turned into one big shitfest. Thanks a lot, thundercunts.

His mom was a fireman who died saving people in the tower. Why would he not remember today for the rest of his life? Are you that stupid?

Man I'm sorry, I really am. I knew in my head that I shouldn't argue on the internet instead of going to bed but my heart screamed that idiocy had to be met with reason. Obviously my heart was in the wrong here.

The topic is always going to bread discussion and to be fair I've seen a lot worse on these forums.

I MUST HAVE MISSED THE HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI REMEMBERENCE?

I know I'm going to sound like a dick for saying this, but seriously: No other country cares this much about a terrorist attack 12 years after it occurred. We don't need to forget that it happened. We do need to move on. We sound like that crazy bitch who's still crying over a breakup 12 years later. Yes, the events were tragic. But events like these happen more often or more devastatingly all the time in other countries. Did you see people reading off the names of those lost in, say, Hiroshima 12 years later? Because, quite frankly, that's pretty similar except 36-66 times as many people died.
My point is, we need to move on. Not forget, but move on. My condolences to anyone who lost a loved one in the attack. I do feel sorry.

hmmm

It would be great if some of you guys making arguments did some research before you opened your stupid mouths.

A simple Google search and I find that many groups and countries are having a 68th anniversary remembrance of Hiroshima this year.

http://www.voanews.com/content/japan-marks-68th-anniversary-of-hiroshima-nuclear-bombing/1724114.html

The whole point is that we have moved on though. You're acting like proportionally the number of people who ask for remembrance is extremely high when in fact it's probably tiny at this point. I think as a nation we recovered many years ago from it. The event itself hasn't significantly crippled us in any way. Few people will mention it throughout the year, and even then a large number of those (relatively few) mentions are probably shitty jokes like Mewtwo told. It's actually wholly pointless to tell people to move on. People like you or me, who didn't have any personal stake in the matter, already don't give enough of a shit 364 days of the year to think about it. People who have lost loved ones will probably never just spend the day in a completely ordinary fashion without at least once reflecting on their loss. And assholes seeking to use 9/11 for personal profit are going to be assholes.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish by A: telling us to move on and B: drawing a weird analogy to a breakup?

Anyway, there are many other nations that hold remembrance events for disasters or tragedies.

A. That was in Japan. I understand that deploying weapons of mass destruction on civilians is not something to be proud of, but still.
B. Not here on the forums.

That was just one of the many search results. There were many candle light vigils in the US for this. SO again, do some research before you make an argument because you just look more stupid every time you post.

B.

Given that the average age of TF2 players appears to be less than 25, it seems unlikely that anybody would have been personally affected by the bombings. Given that the playerbase that frequents these forums is largely North American, it stands to reason that there might be more than one person here who lost somebody in the attacks.

Why not post and talk about it, and see if anybody else has had similar experiences, especially in an off-topic forum?

All I say is that a nation that had no qualms about wiping two cities off the face of the earth shouldn't be so strung up about losing close to 3000 civilians during a time of war.

Do you honestly not see the flaw in this statement? "No qualms" is a bit of stretch. I have no doubt those involved probably understood the magnitude of what they'd done, and carried it with them to the end of their days.

Second, it seems weird that you're fixated on equating a national identity with that of the nation several decades ago. Generationally speaking the people making up the United States now do not comprise the people making up the United States in the 1940s by any significant amount, especially if you think about who was making foreign policy at that point.

Do you blame the Japanese today for the atrocities that were inflicted upon the Chinese? Do you blame any number of countries for the forced enslavement of huge swaths of people? Is the nation of Cambodia somehow still liable for the Killing Fields?

I mean if you're fixated on equating the past crimes of a nation with their modern day incarnation, and you're deadset on adopting that as your viewpoint, then I suppose there really is no way to discuss this rationally.

I think people (including myself) are venting some frustration about all the talk of 9/11 when really, as has been mentioned, it was some time ago. People aren't necessarily upset with the people in this thread but rather annoyed that America are being treated as a victim in it all 12 years later.

during a time of war? what

not sure

This is precisely why I got so heated in this thread. You're convinced people are just looking to be seen as victims. All you need to do is look at this forum. We all share a common hobby/passion, and I don't know that anybody here is specifically asking to be seen as a victim. In fact the first post in the thread is just a guy remembering family he lost and asking for some remembrance as well. I don't think anybody in the thread has even requested victim-status. All that venting is misdirected. It's VERY likely that the majority of Americans on this forum would agree that pushing the victim angle is mostly only adopted by unscrupulous types now. Pointing fingers in so general a way as constantly referring to America as a homogeneous whole that, as a group decided unanimously to be victims is the biggest problem here.

It's a nation, not a singular organism. There's people inside.

Al-Qaeda (and other Jihadist groups) is always at war against the enemies of Islam. Just because the United States didn't recognize this until after 9/11 it does not make it any less of a war prior to 9/11.