mustardoverlord
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SteamID64 76561198013620065
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SteamID32 STEAM_0:1:26677168
Country Bhutan
Signed Up July 18, 2012
Last Posted April 30, 2024 at 4:58 PM
Posts 5479 (1.3 per day)
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#578 MAJOR TF2 update for 6/18/14 (6/19/14, Love & War) in TF2 General Discussion
flamesomeone please explain to me without sounding like an incompetent high school freshman how this "makes 6s fucking awful"

Gladly.

I'd like to start narrow, by talking about demoman itself, before I move onto overall balance. I would've thought that, whether we were outraged by this decision or thought it was worth it for the greater good of competitive, that people would at least admit how shitty this made demoman. However, it appears some people are in denial about this fact. When b4nny, the best demoman to ever touch this game, starts literally bottomdamaging for his team, you know something is wrong. The best that even top demos seem to be able to do is match the damage of their scouts and roamer, and go a fair bit under their pocket's damage. However, people saying "so the demo is less OP and is just the same as any other class" are deluding themselves. Demo is by far the class that pads damage stats the most and pumps out the most useless damage; damage that no one can reasonably follow up on, that gets healed off, and that briefly holds someone up from coming through a choke but doesn't take off a significant margin of their health. In almost every log of a top-tier team from before the update, demos regularly topdamaged (as did pockets depending on the map and heal spread), but other classes almost always outkilled the demo. This was sensible; demo did by far the most dps, but had less finishing power and was worse at making its damage count than scouts or even sollies. Now a demo has similar damage output to other classes, but its killing power has dropped even more, being far below scout or soldier. That useless stat padding damage I mentioned before? That's still present, largely unchanged from before. The only difference is, a demo basically needs to go pipes only or bait everyone else on his team to get kills now. In addition, demo is far less fun to play than before, as the only viable way to play it is to hide waaaaay behind your team and chip damage from afar. So essentially, AT THE VERY LEAST the update has alienated 25% of the 6s community. Also, please don't spout that bullshit about "NOW U ACTUALLY HAVE TO AIM". First of all, aiming well doesn't help a ton when a scout is bulldozing into you like a retard and you're forced to quick det. Second, that kind of "heh just deal with it" logic could be used for literally any nerf for any class, no matter how bullshit. Imagine if valve listened to people complaining about soldiers just shooting their feet mindlessly, and made the rocket launcher have the spread of the direct hit, while keeping firing speed and damage the same. People would be outraged, and no amount of "wow now you actually have to aim rockets" would fix it.

Maybe, MAYBE this change would be worth it if it were beneficial to overall class balance and gameplay, but I STRONGLY disagree that it would be. First off, let's talk about the behavior of the three major fragging classes in 6v6. What makes tf2 interesting is that there's kind of a triangle of counters here, but it's traditionally been EXTREMELY soft. Scout counters demo, demo counters soldier, and soldier counters scout. However, any of these relationships can easily be reversed in tons of situations if a player has lots of skill, positions themselves well, gets heals at the right time and works with their team. Now, however, demo no longer has any upper hand on soldier, as the slow moving nature of sollies is a lot harder to punish with the meager damage stickies do now, especially with the high health of soldiers in general and overhealed pockets in particular. Scout v demo, meanwhile, is simply a complete joke. No matter what people say about demos needing to learn pipe aim nowadays, it's pretty ridiculous to argue that a really good scout is beatable with pipes when, 90% of the time, said scout will win that fight. Pipes are too much of a random element, and it's not like they've been buffed to compensate, with more in a clip or higher reload speed or anything of that nature. In short, the class balance triangle has been basically ruined. In terms of the speed of the game, I suppose it's possible that the game will be faster-paced, with running through chokes being easier. However, I don't think this was a good way at all to increase the tempo of the game, as it was done at the cost of tons of strategy. Now a team can just walk right in through a choke, with no sexy roamer distraction, no amazing shots, and no offensive demo spam of their own. Plus, you lose out on offensive demo spam to make room for a team to push, which always had a great element of aggressive focus fire to it. Just give the pocket 300 and he walks right in. That point brings me to what I probably want to emphasize the most. Some people thought demo was too much of a priority class, and that nothing but med should be elevated to that level of importance (why people believe medic deserves that level of esteem but draw the line at demo, I do not know). However, I believe that this update will make pocket soldier ridiculously OP, simply replacing the demo's former role. A pocket can basically go wherever he wants at any time, as long as his medic follows him, with very little risk. Where before we saw pockets with like 35-40% heals, and demos at 25-30%, I believe now pockets will be pushing like 60%, just like at the heart of the quick fix fiasco. Most good pockets will start to play the way Tiger did back in open, just running around with constant 300 doing whatever they want. Scouts will have a much harder time countering this strat, as without as much focus dmg sent the pocket's way it will be much harder to do enough burst dmg to defeat the overheal. Scouts might not complain, as demos will be shitty enough to feed them kills and dmg to make up for this change, but I see it hurting the game overall. In recent years, especially after gunboats became the vogue worldwide, we were nearing a point where every class had something to offer, and the super balanced frag, heal and damage distribution of top teams was very clear. Now, the balance is out of whack. To use a hyberbolic allegory: imagine if, tired of their pesky ways, we killed all the ants in the world, only to find the food chain collapse, and life on Earth end.

I hope I made my point.

I guess going into hl at this point would just be beating a dead horse; suffice it to say it will suffer even more from this change than 6s.

P.S. I refuse to even go into a discussion about "valve's original intent for the class", as that's such a fucking asinine argument for a variety of reasons

posted about 9 years ago
#558 MAJOR TF2 update for 6/18/14 (6/19/14, Love & War) in TF2 General Discussion
cosamustardoverlordcosamustardoverlordalso some people in this thread are being really shortsighted and selfish because it makes their classes (scout and pocket mainly) much more powerful

meanwhile this update makes 6s and hl fuckin awful
Why would 6v6/hl adopt a plugin to change the way the weapon works from literally anything that isnt a scrim/match server?

random crits
random spread

ever heard of those?
tf_weapon_criticals "0" and tf_damage_disablespread "1 are commands. "tf_sticky_fulldamage" doesn't exist.

why does it matter? are you saying we should be beholden to things being official valve decisions? last I checked we all used custom huds and fps configs, played custom maps, used custom spectator plugins, played pugs on irc and tf2center.com, and played in a league not run by valve

isn't it obvious that valve doesn't give a fuck about comp tf2 and we should start pulling away as soon as possible?

posted about 9 years ago
#549 MAJOR TF2 update for 6/18/14 (6/19/14, Love & War) in TF2 General Discussion
cosamustardoverlordalso some people in this thread are being really shortsighted and selfish because it makes their classes (scout and pocket mainly) much more powerful

meanwhile this update makes 6s and hl fuckin awful
Why would 6v6/hl adopt a plugin to change the way the weapon works from literally anything that isnt a scrim/match server?

random crits
random spread

ever heard of those?

posted about 9 years ago
#543 MAJOR TF2 update for 6/18/14 (6/19/14, Love & War) in TF2 General Discussion

also some people in this thread are being really shortsighted and selfish because it makes their classes (scout and pocket mainly) much more powerful

meanwhile this update makes 6s and hl fuckin awful

posted about 9 years ago
#542 MAJOR TF2 update for 6/18/14 (6/19/14, Love & War) in TF2 General Discussion

well there's hope now, too bad esea never changes its whitelist/cfg mid season even when absolutely necessary

posted about 9 years ago
#133 MAJOR TF2 update for 6/18/14 (6/19/14, Love & War) in TF2 General Discussion

it is finally time

for tf2 promod

posted about 9 years ago
#71 nba finals in Off Topic
kirbygood fucking series. well deserved victory.

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t1.0-9/10390354_717770768281494_8808029518221421990_n.jpg

this would be better if it had the spurs' white uniform and the heat's black one seeing as how thats what they had last game

JUST SAIYAN

posted about 9 years ago
#9 What are the subtle things top level players do? in TF2 General Discussion

a lot of lower level players are terrible listeners

they don't realize that almost every play they make should be based on what the people around them are calling

posted about 9 years ago
#8 ESEA-IM Playoffs: Meat Market vs Ding Dong Daddy in Events

ding dong daddy wins if unf doesnt play fucking awful

idk if that will happen doe

posted about 9 years ago
#20 #gather.fi Suomenmestaruuscuppi Finals in Events

http://logs.tf/313856?highlight=76561197993504341

fluffy might be a teeeensy bit washed up

posted about 9 years ago
#9 High open team lf scouts + 1 more friendly face in Recruitment (looking for players)
Foxhow did you and decoy get banned from ugc

don't ask

...

Show Content
decoy ejaculated on a picture of sdoggs daughter and they posted it on the forums
posted about 9 years ago
#5 how to be good. in Videos
kevhttp://i.imgur.com/Y6ex0Ik.jpg

DON DEMARCO

posted about 9 years ago
#6 hooey lft in Recruitment (looking for team)

the best pyro in tf2

posted about 9 years ago
#74 numlocked in TF2 General Discussion

its too bad bash hasn't been playing at the same level as before

if stefan came back, I think epsi would be better off replacing bash with him rather than kiler at this pt, unless bash REALLY turns it around before i52

I think epsi could compete with na teams if they had stefan tho. without him? idkkkk

posted about 9 years ago
#10 New Teams that Can Shake invite in TF2 General Discussion
nickplusFognickplusManajumas
Area51
NetcodeGuides
Homeless
Exertus
Is Homeless even still around? I thought they died out
The remainders of Homeless are now NetcodeGuides.
JDM was reliable, moved to NCG and homeless had cutler(now NCG) and FREAKAZOID(now reliable)
I got spazzed out, but yea they did die out at the core.

you're completely wrong

jdm was on exire in main with shroud, devo dumore and ak-ny before ncg, cutler was never on homeless and was on mousespaz along with lucky and fns

the old homeless was: freakazoid, steel, monte, frozt, mosbeck

posted about 9 years ago
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